.....on 5 Million Acres

That's the title of an article in the 9/09 American Hunter magazine.

17,000 grizz
100,000 black
2,350 bear-specific problems from April-June '08
260 g/o
2,000 employed by g/o
$120 million annual revenue generated in BC by bear hunting

I didn't read anywhere in the article that that meant only non-residents weren't allowed to hunt. Seems you're doing some solid work up there Dewey.

The numbers you quote are not accurate, but, understanding the highly complex and politically controversial situation of B.C. resource management-conservation issues is obviously a bit beyond your "ken".

The GO industry does NOT contribute or employ as they state they do and both Grizzly and Black Bear hunting ARE still very much with us, as they should be. The restrictions you refer to are "old news" and are ONLY in effect in certain sensititve coastal protected areas...at the request of the people who live there.

B.C. is 366,000 SQUARE MILES and contains probably 200,000 bears in total; this closure of a mere 5,000,000 ACRES is not going to affect resident hunters to any marked degree, but, I am not in favour of it.

Much of the impetus for this comes from American "environmentalist" organizations; yet again, as with SCI, RMEF and FNAWS, an example of foreign meddling in OUR affairs. I had some contact with some of these people who came here to promote these closures last July and was able to make them see that Americans must NOT attempt to influence B.C. land use decisions...and, to their credit, they understood and complied with my point.

You ARE correct, (an unusual state of affairs on this topic, where U.S. hunters are concerned,) in that I have tried to do a lot of good work for conservation here. HOWEVER, this closure has nothing to do with me, BUT, it indicates exactly what I have tried to point out, foreign hunting and fishing is increasingly unpopular in B.C. and WILL be banned within a few years.

There is NO legitimate reason to allow our rare sheep, etc., to be slaughtered by rich Americans so that they can claim to be "hunters" and the foreign GOs here ARE leaving, slowly, but surely....and like US "steel" jobs, according to Springsteen, "they ain't comin' back"....one way or another, boy.

So, get your facts straight and try to grasp the reality of Canadian sovereignity.

I should also mention here that ALL non-resident hunting in B.C. IS NOW under attack by various forces and it is merely a matter of time until the government sees a political advantage to totally ending it, as they now do with banning bear hunting.

As an "educated guess", I would give foreign hunting here in B.C. from 5-9 years and I suspect that that former figure is closer to what will happen. ANY licence CAN be cancelled by a Ministry Regional Manager and they are receiving a LOT of domestic pressure to ban "trophy" collecting by foreigners.

Anybody can make foolish and nasty comments, but, B.C. is changing rapidly and not in a way that is supportive of foreigners killing our wildlife for their ego-gratification. Too bad, so sad and about bloody well time!

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
I should also mention here that ALL non-resident hunting in B.C. IS NOW under attack by various forces and it is merely a matter of time until the government sees a political advantage to totally ending it, as they now do with banning bear hunting.

As an "educated guess", I would give foreign hunting here in B.C. from 5-9 years and I suspect that that former figure is closer to what will happen. ANY licence CAN be cancelled by a Ministry Regional Manager and they are receiving a LOT of domestic pressure to ban "trophy" collecting by foreigners.

Anybody can make foolish and nasty comments, but, B.C. is changing rapidly and not in a way that is supportive of foreigners killing our wildlife for their ego-gratification. Too bad, so sad and about bloody well time!

Hey, what do you expect in a province, where growing marijuana has become the largest source of cash income.

Grizz

Just remember Dewey, the last time we Americans "meddled" in your affairs some guy named Hitler was thinking about euthanizing some of your population...about half.

We have been saving the canadians from conquest for a long time. If we Americans just took one year off from hunting in canada you'd all be eating dogfood and living in cardboard boxes.

Rich
DRSS

Geez, NOT more of the typical Yankee bullschit!!!!! DO you loudmouths EVER read ANY REAL history?

Hitler was going to EUTHANIZE ...half... of Canada's population??? What UTTER bullschit, who WERE these people? We have fewer than 400,000 Jews here NOW, out of about 33, 000,000 people; WHERE do you get this crap, out of "Double Bubble"?

...saving the canadians from conquest for a long time....yeah, right, like when you had your azzes whipped by the Viet Cong and NVA freedom fighters, led by the military genius General Nguyen Vo Giap????

You entered BOTH World Wars because you were attacked and did fuckall in WWI and many of your troops RAN in WWII...Tunisia, Heurtgen Forest, etc. and KOREA....your WHOLE 8th Army RAN and left their wounded buddies to the Chicoms....while Canadians held the line.

Anyway, WTF does this have to do with the bear hunting ban?

Trophy collecting and ego gratification, huh?.....you are a sad, old sack of bitterness.

More of the same, eh?

You have never been here, do not know ANYTHING about B.C. and our wildlife, the situation concerning population trends, habitat degradation, predation or the divers politcal issues involved, all you can do is to make silly remarks about me.

Try, in your rather circumscribed little psyche to understand that MANY, probably MOST contemporary BCers DO NOT WANT foreigners killing our wildlife.

Economics has nothing to do with this issue, it is simply how people here feel. Nobody here CARES about what some "hunter" from the surburban reaches of "America" thinks or wants, so, rave away, you do not have ANY "say" in this situation.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:


Try, in your rather circumscribed little psyche to understand that MANY, probably MOST contemporary BCers DO NOT WANT foreigners killing our wildlife.
.

I bet that BC resident guides and outfitters would not fall into that category, nor the folks that benefit from Americans and others spending their dough in Canada...

Is it possible for those who have never been to Canada and especially B.C.and have little or no knowledge of the situation here to TRY to refrain from making baseless comments on a situation that is really NOT their concern?

American hunters and anglers have VERY little impact on BC's economy and actually detract from resident's access to and harvest of our game. However, this only concerns we who OWN B.C. and WE simply do not want anyone hunting here, except ourselves and other Canadians....simple, really.

Enough, the governent WILL ban foreign hunting and hopefully, fishing, as well. People in other nations should concentrate on THEIR OWN hunting and not bother us about ours.

Dewey,

I can understand your sentiments and national pride. I've hunted Canada several times and have another trip planned for 2010. Love hunting Canada.
But I've only met one actual Canadian in all the times of hunted there who was hunting as well. If you got your wish, I'd be real surprised if it didn't seriously affect a lot of people. The hunts I've done have been between $10k to $25k. That doesn't include air fare.
How could that not affect the economy when an average hunter spends that kind of money?
Canada is huge with tons on available hunting resources. To nationalize it would be a mistake. Too many locals don't even hunt anymore. Too many people don't make the kind of money to be able to support your hunting industry. Hell, too many indians don't know how to hunt anymore or are just too complacent (lazy) nowadays.

But hey, if the worst should happen. I still have 'hunting' on the Florida and California beaches...

The profits go to the Guide-Outfitters, many of whom are Americans or Germans, who employ resident "frontmen" to "hold the licence". These monies then are taken to the USA or Germany and do NOT benefit B.C.-Canada.

Here in B.C., the high dollar GOs employ "guides" from other provinces and THEY take the wages they are paid to THEIR home regions. This is done so that a B.C. resident guide cannot return to a GO's best hunting areas with his buddies and kill game that the GO can sell to foreigners....it is VERY common and needs to be stopped.

As to ...locals... hunting, that is irrelevant in that this growing movement to ban foreign "trophy" collecting here is not based on economics OR whether we have "surplus" game or not, ( we don't); it is based on various other issues and has little to do with local hunting.

The bear hunting ban concerned here, which, as I posted, I do NOT agree with, IS largely a result of requests from local Indians and some, primarily US-based "eco-extremist" groups. This gang of "budgies", as we call them here, actually bought a GO territory when the guy who operated it retired, but, they are not offering hunts.

Again, Canada is NOT a "resource base" for foreigners and Americans ARE foreigners. We have the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to dispose of ALL of our resources, wildlife included, as WE see fit and this ban is what the local people wanted.

There are a number of reasons why different BCers want an end to Americans hunting-fishing here and we do NOT have to explain or "justify" these to ANYONE. If, I were Premier of B.C., I would enact an "Order-in-Council" of the B.C. Legislature and ALL foreign hunting, fishing, land ownership and wilderness use would be permanently banned as of next Tuesday....it will take a little time, but, the BEST will happen!

Good luck on those beaches, don't forget your "sunscreen".

Premier of BC is a bit out of reach for you me thinks, Dewey.......perhaps town councilman's pageboy may be the right fit.

And why may I ask didn't the BCers limit GO rights to BC residents only? Where were you when the "Americans and Germans" were monopolizing YOUR GO operations? Probably sitting at your computer ranting blindly into a screen and frothing at the mouth.

dewfus and bbbrucie's traveling fun show is in town again.

Whatever, loudmouth.

Pot, Kettle, what?

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
Whatever, loudmouth.

Got any mirrors in your place,Dewey?

quote:

The profits go to the Guide-Outfitters, many of whom are Americans or Germans, who employ resident "frontmen" to "hold the licence". These monies then are taken to the USA or Germany and do NOT benefit B.C.-Canada.

Sounds a little like our auto industry. Look where that got them.
I do believe you are way off base with your economics, however. Every outfitter I've employed in Canada has been Canadian owned, ran and operated. And if the locals arent' taking adavantage of the resources, then what's the point of nationalizing it? Most of the 'product' has a ten year shelf life anyway.

Idaho Sharpshooter you are full of it. We have never needed US help to keep free.Look to true history and see who started the war of 1812 and who actually won.Hitler could never have taken this territory. And name any fight that we have lost. Dan

quote:

Originally posted by bluefin:
And if the locals arent' taking adavantage of the resources, then what's the point of nationalizing it? Most of the 'product' has a ten year shelf life anyway.

You have a very good point on the shelf life of animals. And a fair jag of us locals do take advantage of it. At the beginning of August I did a week hunting Stone sheep in Northern BC, and on monday I'm leaving for another 8 day backpack hunt....Based on what the local outfitter charges for a similiar hunt it would of cost you as a non-resident in the neighborhood of $25 000 US for each of the these hunts...My total cost, under $500 for both combined...I make that a savings of $49 500 US...So who am I to complain if you want to spend that kind of money to do the same thing as me in my province? With the exact same chances of finding an animal as I have.

Not all of us are as opinionated or anti-american as Dewey/Kutenay/DevilBear or whatever handle he runs under. (And for the record, he's pretty anti-everyone up here too, if we don't have the same background as he does.....) So don't take him too seriously. He's been "petitioning to have all foreign ownership/hunting/fishing....blah blah blah" for years.

I'd share a sheep steak with (al)most any hunter with enough balls and determination to get to the same places as I go should I run into any of you in the back country, regardless of nationality.

BushMonkey,I suspect there are more like you up there than Dewey, thankfully. From what you say, he sounds like an old, angry malcontent that moves from one issue to the next to get rabid about.

Naw, he doesn't bounce from one to the other, he's got three or so issues that always draw him out, regardless of the forum.....

But you are right, there are more like me than there are like him....

BushMonkey,

Good luck on your hunt. I did two weeks in your 'backyard' with Tahltan Outfitters (I named them so Dewey could Google them for Canadian ownership) and it liked to have killed me. But it was the most exciting hunt I've had yet. Also did a dall just a month ago with Redstone Outfitters (another one for ya Dewey) and had a great time. Matter of fact, it was the only time I've hunted in Canada when there was a Canadian hunting with us. Of course he is like a distant relative to most Canadians being a 'Newfie'. LOL Great guy. There was three in our group (Texan, Colorodan and Newfie and none of knew each other before) who had such a good time that we are tentatively planning another hunt somewhere in Canada.
You Canadians are a fun group. I have yet to meet one face to face that I didn't like. And I learned early on to never go into a drinking contest with you guys!
Again, good luck on your Stone and post up a report and let us know how you did.

No, this newbie to AR is NOT more representative of B.C. citizens than I am; in fact, I kinda suspect that he is very likely involved in the GO business and just logged on here to spew his phoney bullschitt. I really don't care as his kind of "Canadian", if he even IS one, reminds me of those Yankees who accept "La Raza" and the Mexican Flag being given precedence over "The Stars and Stripes" in certain regions in the U.S. Southwest.....every nation has it's Quislings, eh.

I expect that this "argumentum ad hominem" will continue for some further time and, yet, it will mean nothing as the growing campaign influences B.C.'s politicians to do as most here want and ban all foreign hunting, etc. We will be up north, starting next week and will not hesitate to firmly tell any foreigners we encounter to bugger off back whence they came.

So, rant on, boys, it will simply strengthen my resolve and that of others I know here to do whatever it takes to prevent more foreign hunting here....and, if it gets a little "exercised", well, can't say that you were not warned, eh?

"Tahltan Outfitters", yeah, I know about them and we will be in that area within the next year. My partner, an immigrant Canadian citizen, used to live up there and he HATES both GOs and Yankee "hunters" with a vengeance. I don't, as we ...old...guys tend to be a bit more mellow...and know how to bring about the political changes we seek.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
My partner,

Is this your "coming out" thread ?

quote:

and, if it gets a little "exercised", well, can't say that you were not warned, eh?

Dewey,

My friend, I read that as a threat not to my hunting but to myself. I will just say that if you were to threaten me or to in any way intimidate or harrass me during a hunt, well, let's just say you better be damn good. Eh
You keep throwing your chest out there and saying this and that about about how BCers hate certain people and I have yet to see any of that.
As far as your immigrant 'partner' - how you rodeo - well that's your business.
Perhaps we'll have a chance to meet sometime. Matter of fact, when I am able to put together this next trip, I will publicly come on this forum and state when and where I'll be there.
I'll be more than happy to meet you or your 'partner'. Perhaps we can have a beer...

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
No, this newbie to AR is NOT more representative of B.C. citizens than I am; in fact, I kinda suspect that he is very likely involved in the GO business and just logged on here to spew his phoney bullschitt. I really don't care as his kind of "Canadian", if he even IS one,

I actually am more representative...I'm not old and bitter because of all things I've been unable to do in my life...I'm living my dream Kute, actually doing the things you always purport to do, but don't actually back up with any substance.

And, no, I'm not involved in any way with the GO business, although I have had several offers to guide based on my MERIT as a hunter and as a person.

Oh, and yes, I'm Canadian.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefin:
Perhaps we'll have a chance to meet sometime. Matter of fact, when I am able to put together this next trip, I will publicly come on this forum and state when and where I'll be there.
I'll be more than happy to meet you or your 'partner'. Perhaps we can have a beer...

Wasting bandwidth with the offer Bluefin, others have tried and called him out publicly...He'll throw out his chest and bait you, then run off and try to hide behind threats of legal action as he attempts to make a public forum case of how he has been maligned by you and your threats against his person....Many have followed this same path before you.

Oh, really? How very "Texas".

quote:

Originally posted by BushMonkey:

he attempts to make a public forum case of how he has been maligned by you and your threats against his person....Many have followed this same path before you.

He always says he's going to shut up and go away,but he never does.
I think he is in some ways, alot like our other canadian lover boy bbbrewski,an attention whore who stands up and yells ,so everyone will look at him.

That is a lie and Bushmonkey is a POS liar, who obviously has an agenda. Clear enough?

My friend is NOT a homo and neither am I, however, it is very revealing that some here cannot discuss this without making such foolish comments....those who often call others "gay", are said to BE "latent homosexuals" themselves.

Now, bluefin, first, I WARNED you and your comments are rather inchoate, don't you think? If, I were involved in a blockade of foreign "hunters", you would get "physical" with me, in MY country? Good, please try, as that would be an EXCELLENT issue to keep media attention on the crucial issues concerning Canadian resource conservation and sovereignity.

To me, you are an intruder and an enemy and I would no more drink beer with you than I will accept your bullschitt about hunting here. You are going to ...meet...me, yeah, sure, I have heard this bullschitt dozens of times from Yankees just like you and it is SO "Texas".....

So, better stay home and regale your fellow "big hats" with your ludicrous comments and fantasies about being ...good...

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
That is a lie and Bushmonkey is a POS liar, who obviously has an agenda. Clear enough?

My friend is NOT a homo and neither am I, however, it is very revealing that some here cannot discuss this without making such foolish comments....those who often call others "gay", are said to BE "latent homosexuals" themselves.

Now, bluefin, first, I WARNED you and your comments are rather inchoate, don't you think? If, I were involved in a blockade of foreign "hunters", you would get "physical" with me, in MY country? Good, please try, as that would be an EXCELLENT issue to keep media attention on the crucial issues concerning Canadian resource conservation and sovereignity.

To me, you are an intruder and an enemy and I would no more drink beer with you than I will accept your bullschitt about hunting here. You are going to ...meet...me, yeah, sure, I have heard this bullschitt dozens of times from Yankees just like you and it is SO "Texas".....

So, better stay home and regale your fellow "big hats" with your ludicrous comments and fantasies about being ...good...

And here we gooooooo....So very predictable.

I am pleased that you find my responses reassuring and always read my posts, this might yet teach you something about being a Canadian, in the honourable meaning of that oftimes misused term. There IS hope, even for you and I do try to assist, where I can.

BTW, there IS something about you and I doubt that you are a BC-born Canadian, eh? I cannot quite place you, but, I am sure that I will in due course.

If, as you boast, you are SUCH a fabulous hunter and bushman and ...person.., WHY would you not guide for all of these outfitters who asked you to? It seems like just the job for your kind and you could meet all of these wonderful foreigners you are so enamoured of.

Reassuring...I suppose so...in that you will always sputter and blow, and then attempt to come across as the kindly professor...Humorous, if nothing else.

And yes, BC-born Dewey.

Why guide and take others to animals, when I can take myself and friends to animals? What would be the purpose of that?

And for the record, dear Dew, I don't always read your posts. I do however always read threads such as this one, and you always pop up with your ignorant rants about foreign ownership, guide outfitters, natives, americans, etc etc...And after having read one or two, I find you tiresome and repetitive. Always you spout the same rhetoric, over and over again. You are always "writing a letter" or "organizing a grass roots movement" or some other such nonsence.

I figure you are probably house bound and bitter about it. Researching things on the net that may hold your interest, and trying to come across as an intellectual or someone who actually does some of the things you speak of all the time.

At any rate Devilbunion, I bid you a good night. Hopefully you haven't been too far into the beer tonight, and it doesn't keep you up too late trying to formulate a letter to the Sun or the Province on how the country has gone to hell and you have just the way to resurrect it by booting all the people who aren't blonde and blue-eyed back to their respective countries.

Dewage,

Again, I haven't met one Canadian who is anything like yourself or who holds your views. It's good that you have a partner - I'm sure he stands behind you.

quote:

booting all the people who aren't blonde and blue-eyed back to their respective countries.

Ah, I see, bit of animosity toward "white" people, eh? I suspected as much from your lack of ability to write correct English.

Bluebeard, you haven't met many Canadians and even many of those employed by GOS that I have met in various camps detest Yankee "hunters". But, be happy in your fantasy as my concern is with BC conservation and I do not care what a foreigner thinks and never will.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Just remember Dewey, the last time we Americans "meddled" in your affairs some guy named Hitler was thinking about euthanizing some of your population...about half. We have been saving the canadians from conquest for a long time.

Nawwwwwwwwww. Your sense of self importance is only exceeded by your lack of historical knowledge. Canada was in WW1 from 1914 on, and had to teach the US army how to fight a modern war when it arrived in Europe fresh from chasing Pancho Villa. The US didn't fight a battle as an army until the last three months of the war. In WW2 we were in in 1939, you arrived in '42. We owe you nothing for either effort.

quote:

If we Americans just took one year off from hunting in canada you'd all be eating dogfood and living in cardboard boxes.

You gotta be kiddin'? Go ahead and make my day.

Actually we're watching with baited breath as you neocons destroy your firearms and hunting cultures with your gun problem. THAT"s when we'll clean up. Once you've lost it in America you will be able to buy hunting packages here. You will first have to satisfy our guides that you are gun safe. Fingerprinting and DNA samples will be mandatory. Because you will be from a nation that is "unsafe" by definition, annual gun safety re-registration will be required. Because you will have no guns of your own, you will have to rent a gun here. Because you will not be able to buy or import ammo you'll have to buy it for immediate consumption from your outfitter. All in all it might cost a few bucks. But relax, your safety and comfort will be our primary concern. Bring VISA.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:


Ah, I see, bit of animosity toward "white" people, eh? I suspected as much from your lack of ability to write correct English.

Hahahaha....Nope, no animosity at all...Hell, my kids have blonde and blues...

And again, predictable...Now the "Professor" side comes out....Lack of ability to write correct english. Not surprising though, as that was the only avenue you had left.

hey, I was blond and blue eyed.now more like grey and gray.

quote:

Originally posted by BushMonkey:

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:


Ah, I see, bit of animosity toward "white" people, eh? I suspected as much from your lack of ability to write correct English.

Hahahaha....Nope, no animosity at all...Hell, my kids have blonde and blues...

And again, predictable...Now the "Professor" side comes out....Lack of ability to write correct english. Not surprising though, as that was the only avenue you had left.

What, have YOU done to prevent this banning of bear hunting, recently? Since, you are ...living my dream..., I would surmise that an "expurt" who ...leads... people to game MUST be very active in protecting our resident hunting rights, eh?

What, exactly, IS, this dream of yours and what do you do to earn your livelihood and support your ...blond and blue...kids? I "think" I know who you are and what you are and I really do not believe you.