Well I submitted the forms tonight to renew my ATC. I kinda went out on a limb by adding B.C. as an area to get ATC. Hope it works out.

Since it is a renewal I don't see how there can be a problem as far as Alberta ATC... but asking for B.C. could cause me grief.

Here's hoping for the rubber stamp.

Did you get it with a prospecting licence in the first instance?

Lots of stuff on that in the NFA journal these days.. pushing for ATC for women, retired female police officers, retired male police officers, etc.

I understood currently they were issued only to those working way off the beaten trac, and the odd tracker maybe...?

Good luck. Apparently (also NFA journal) there are lots of delays in issuing new licenses.

Frans

I really feel for you guys! Canada's idiotic gun laws is probably the biggest reason that I would not consider living in B.C.! Well, the price of beer is crazy too

Yeah, stupid gun laws and way-to-expensive beer..........I think I'll just stay in Texas!

/

quote:

Yeah, stupid gun laws and way-to-expensive beer..........I think I'll just stay in Texas!

Yeah, that's right...not to mention all the opinionated foriegners that come here just to shoot our bears and wolves and then go home and slag our beer! A place best avoided!

Couldn't resist, TXPO.

Cheers,
Canuck

TXPO..............look around you. Just wait till Hilary gets in. The pressure is mounting. You guys have managed to avoid too much trauma with firearms legislation up to this point. But with less than 5% of your firearms community belonging to the NRA and the constant push by the firearms control groups and politicians, at local, state and federal levels, that are gun control advocates, your constitution is only going to protect you for so long.

I am not wishing this upon you......just my observations from the outside looking in.

Alf, don't forget that homicides include murders and suicides. They aren't diferentiated. I always like to point that one out.

I'm not in favour of being able to carry handguns, although I love shooting them at the range. There are too many idiots out there.

the chef

Chef, the real idiots don't care too much about ATC's...

Frans

quote:

What I dont get about your statement is why would you need to carry a handgun in Western Canada? For defence? Against what or who?

Bears and cougars and wolves, oh my. - dan

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
TXPO:

What I dont get about your statement is why would you need to carry a handgun in Western Canada? For defence? Against what or who?

Defense against bears. Central Alberta foothills are crawling with black bears and enough grizzlies to kill and eat you.

Or maybe you haven't read about any of the half dozen brear killings in western Canada over the last 2 years.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:a shooter it would be nice to have my 44 in the bush and to be able to hunt with it, yes but other than that there is very little real need to carry.

Oh, I see. Only bears in bear costumes where you live. Alrighty then, suit yourself "Timothy".

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:I have lived and worked here for 8 years now, contrast to South Africa I have not seen a single handgun gunshot wound, intentional or accidental in 8 years,and the likelyhood of ever seeing one is slim [b]because nodbody has handguns ( The few that do are mainly sport shooters like IPSC ) in this time I have seen and treated exactly 3 accidental rifle shootings and here in the North just about everybody has guns and hunt.

There are only 900 homicides in Canada per annum for a population of 30 million people of which roughly 300 involve guns?

I have often wondered what it would be like if there were more handguns in this part of the world ?

Jesus ALF, where the hell do you live anyway? What rock are you living under?
Handguns are no more dangerous then KNIVES, CHAINSAWS, CARS, AXES, etc...

Owning handguns has not made me run amok wantonly killing!

All of the guys that I know (that own guns) are either working to buy more handguns, or are getting their first handguns. What is the world coming to, eh!?
A bunch of the guys that I work with own and shoot handguns regularly, oddly none of them have shot anybody (or any animals) with them.

I carried my handgun legally in the bush in 2006 under the provisions of a valid ATC. Does this make me a crazed killer?


The last thing I will say here is to all firearms owners anywhere in Canada; you all need to expand your rights. Go out and do your homework and use the existing loopholes to get ATC.

Get an ATC, Man-Up.

you better hide under your bed alf there's more handguns kicking around western canada than you know

Demonical

I was rather hesitant to post back after my initial, tongue-in-cheek (btw), post about Canada's gun laws. It didn't occur to me until I showed a buddy of mine the post. His response....'What do you expect??? You attacked their country'.

Well, as an extremely proud American I can truely appreciate patriotism.

My intention was NOT to attack Canada. It is just hard for me to imagine not being able to legally carry a handgun wherever I choose. Being a cop, firearms instructor and basic 'Gun Guy' for ALL of my adult life has basically programmed me to always be prepared and to have a pistola (handgun) rather handy. I guess I have taken this for granted.

Nasty things walk on 2 legs as well as 4. Being permitted to carry a handgun while 'in the bush' is just not acceptable to me.....sorry if I seem arrogant.

I absolutely LOVE B.C.!!! I have been there twice for bears and just can't get enough of the game and hunting opportunities the Province has to offer (don't know about the other provinces...never been there). I would really like to live in some of the areas that I have hunted. Unfortunately, I don't agree with Canadian laws concerning certain issues.

Love you Canucks of the 'Great White North' and would treat anyone of you I have the pleasure of meeting here to the best time imaginable.



BTW....your beer is still WAY too pricey!!!

Somewhere back about 1930 the Liberal movement really got started with the first gun controls in Canada. Up 'til then free men could roam the wilderness and carry a handgun for self defense, if they desired. If you read any of Elmer Keith's writings you know that he routinely carried big bore revolvers, when on wilderness hunts in Canada.

But some HIGH THINKERS decided that handguns were somehow a threat and enacted laws to prohibit or restrict them. Ever since the idea has been perpetuated in Canada, that owning or carrying a handgun is a bad thing.

But this is ludicrous. A man can legally carry a scope equipped, high powered rifle. This is so obviously a more dangerous weapon then any handgun, to anyone that takes even a moment to contemplate the subject, that it makes me shake my head. A handgun, which is maybe lethal out to 100 yards is somehow more deadly then a high powered rifle; I think not!

When people want to talk about handguns killing people it is so off the topic of what I am talking about it is not even the same subject. The majority of handgun murders are in the city and they are gang related crimes involving drugs. They do not involve the general public other then the outrage we all feel at these crimes.

What I am talking about is carrying a handgun in WILDERNESS areas, for the sole purpose of self defense.

I am a legally licensed firearms owner, certified to buy, possess restricted weapons (handguns). I have been certified by an RCMP Firearms Instructor as proficient in self defense with big bore handguns; a Ruger Redhawk in .44Mag and a Ruger SRH in .480 Ruger.

For me being able to carry the handgun is much more about my RIGHTS then anything. Yes I carry the gun as self defense against bears.
Do I expect to be attacked by a bear? Hell no, but I damn sure want to be armed in the remote chance that it happens.

I am 49 years young, I am not trigger-happy. I am not going to use the revolver unless my life (or others) depended on it.

And the fact that I have to jump through hoops to be certified by a beaurocrat in Ottawa, to be able to legally carry a handgun in the wilderness absolutely galls me to no end.

It is my RIGHT to defend myself.
It is my RIGHT to chose how I do so.
I do not wish to carry a 12ga Defender or a rifle.

A .480 Ruger revolver in my holster is just right...

quote:

I am 49 years young, I am not trigger-happy. I am not going to use the revolver unless my life (or others) depended on it.

And the fact that I have to jump through hoops to be certified by a beaurocrat in Ottawa, to be able to legally carry a handgun in the wilderness absolutely galls me to no end.

It is my RIGHT to defend myself.
It is my RIGHT to chose how I do so.
I do not wish to carry a 12ga Defender or a rifle.

A .480 Ruger revolver in my holster is just right...

Are you sure you are not an American???


I'm glad that the originator of this post understood me.

If I could choose another place on Earth I would like to live( That I have personally visited......besides S. Africa) it would be B.C. Although I sure wish the Gov. of Canada thought more like a Texan!

DAMN!!!!...your beer is still WAY TOO EXPENSIVE!!!

Wes the only people I do not understand are the brainwashed that have fallen into the belief that owning/carrying a handgun is somehow bad.

I see no offense in your posts.



Jim.

Alf, how many rape victims have you treated in 8 years?

This lady says it better than anyone I've heard.

http://www.torontosun.com/Comment/Letters/2007/06/19/4272126.html

The great equalizer

Re "A right to self-defence" (Letters, June 16): The Sun repeatedly attacks the idea of self-defence usage of guns. Unlike canes, baseball bats or knives, guns can and do stop an attack by simply being brandished by a much weaker victim, without anyone getting injured. No one wants to actually shoot a burglar or rapist, but isn't it better to have that option if attacked? Gun control/prohibition is the idea that a 120 lb., 5'2" woman has the right to use her naked fists to fight off an attack from a 220 lb., 6'2" rapist. Pretending that doesn't happen is left-wing wishful thinking, not reality.

Elena Markina

Canadian national lady practical pistol champion

Calgary chef,

Yes, there are a lot of idiots out there. How does letting them only have long guns instead of handguns make them less of an idiot? Are you saying idiots don't know how to use a saw or cutting torch?

And you also know, the real idiots don't really care what the law says.

Demonical, you have a PM.

And I agree: our beer IS too expensive!!!

Frans

Just a general reply to all here.I agree with most things said but i will tell you why we should not be part of this eastern controlled country[and big city controlled]i was prospecting last summer and had a shotgun with me[can't get a course for a carry permit Gunnar never answered any calls]and at the end of the day i had a choice make one more trip in to get the last of my equipment and leave the shotgun behind trigger locked and hidden in the truck or make 2 trips and take the gun. Ran into mother griz with 2 cubs. Should not have had to make the choice in the first place.We need less government in big cities spending money and telling us how to live. Just my $0.02 worth.

I say take a look at the ATC Application on the CFC site and make up your own mind.

One thing I find ludicrous is that the ATC App' has the provision for simple self defense for wilderness carry, but the fucking Gov't will not grant it.

You need to have a job related to wilderness areas, very loosley defined btw, and use that loop-hole. If you do work in the bush then getting an ATC is a helluva lot simpler then you would probably believe.

gunbug I know several guys (www.CanadianGunNutz.com) from B.C. that have ATC. I bet if you check there will be something in the system you can exploit to get it too.

Use the existing loop-holes, I say.

Interestingly enough, I have a permit to carry a concealed pistol granted me by the State of Utah and honored by about 30 or so states .. I am a Canadian living in Canada ... my own government won't even allow me to take a pistol out and whack a darn gopher ... Go figure ...

OK........I will try this question again. Demonical did you get the ATC in the first place with a prospectors licence? If not what was your 'bush job' you used?

Good luck with BC. It will be interesting to see if you get it.

Well according to all the self professed experts a handgun won't kill a bear anyway. You need at lease a 30 cal magnum, so what good is it anyway? Don't get me wrong I'm not against handguns just the wannabees who sometimes carry them. Way too much testostorone involved.

By the way If I wanted to carry one in remote areas, I'd just damned well do it.

the chef

quote:

By the way If I wanted to carry one in remote areas, I'd just damned well do it.

I am aware of a number of 9mm and 10mm cameras that get packed whilst in bear country.

My 10.7mm camera is my personal fave for that purpose, were it that I should pack such a thing for self preservational photography (of course, I never would pack a camera to the field without appropriate authorizations in place. ).

Cheers,
Canuck

Skyline sorry if I missed your question; I originally applied for an ATC on the basis of self defense for wilderness. The provision exists in the application, so I tried... why not?

So the gal at the CFC called me and told me the Gov't will never approve an ATC for self defense in the wilderness, which I think is assinine, but she told me if I wanted an ATC, "to just get a Trappers License..."
So I did that. As soon as I had passed my Trapper's License and had the exam qualification and license in hand, I immediately re-applied for an ATC and got it.
So I can carry legally... I completely understand the notion of just carrying anyway... but I wanted it to be legal, just in case. I mean if I get checked by a C.O. I do have the necessary papers.

Btw,, in order to get ATC I had to qualify at our local gun range under the supervision of an RCMP Certified Firearms Instructor, and I expect you would too.

I put my .44Mag Ruger Redhawk and my .480 Ruger SRH on my application, so I had to demonstrate proficiency with quickly drawing the handgun from my holster and rapid fire accuracy with those guns.

The day the RCMP called to test me I had not practiced with either revolver for several months, but I was "bang on" that day and I have to say I "aced" the test.

When I was done with the .44 and the .480 the officer simply said, "You are good to go man...

Then I let him fire a few with my .480 Ruger, which I think he enjoyed/was surprised at/flinched due to the recoil etc...

Hope this answers your question, but anything else, fire away!

Thanks Demonical. I am a trapper, I am also a big game guide...and I was a police officer..Lots of experience with handguns..semi-auto and revolvers.

So I think I will give it a try.

Skyline use both the Trapping and Guiding as just cause to carry. The CFC will require you to demonstrate your proficiency with an RCMP officer. They will also send you a questionairre to answer, all written explanations for a series of dumb-ass things. When I did mine I kept it simple; volunteered the bare minimum to satisfy each question.

I also want to get a guiding license but in Alberta you have got to be recommended to APOS by an Outfitter/Guide. I intend to follow through with that; I have a guy in mind to ask, here in Whitecourt.

Heck, I've had a guiding license for the last few years...!

But I need to go select and buy a weapon first, as the ATC is for specific weapons I notice, not a general, carry-what-you-want, type of deal.

Until now I've always refrained from buying a handgun, though I'm licensed, because of all these silly rules and permits. I've had too much of that in the old country.

Frans

Frans I suppose I would recommend a Ruger SRH in any of 3 calibers: .44 Mag, .454 Casull or .480 Ruger.

I prefer the .480 Ruger above all. It shoots a much larger slug then the .44 Mag. It is 30% more powerful, but don't let that bother you, I can shoot it one handed. The bigger problem is that Ruger has dis-continued it, at least temporarily.

So the options would be between the .44 mag and the .454 Casull. If you go for the .44 mag then you could opt for the Ruger Redhawk, Smith & Wesson, etc...

You could go for a Freedom Arms in .454 Casull; that's bad-ass.

I have heard bad things about Taurus warranty, but I don't know much else about Taurus.

I have a Ruger 345 in .45 ACP and I think it would be a great wilderness carry handgun.

Oh yeah, another point I have meant to bring up here... the CFC likes to "Grandfather" things now and then. IMHO the sooner a person has possession of an ATC, the better!

You never know when the bastards will pull the rug out from under the provisions to carry!


Later, Demo.

I coudl carry a loaded handgun in my pocket every day for the rest of tmy life, and I am no more likely to unlawfully shoot a person than I am to stab a person, wiht the 4"blade knife I carry in my pocket, every day of my life.

Those that misuse handguns dont' follow laws anyway...

idiots use rifles drive cars pretty well human activity involves idiots linking them just to handguns is pretty simplistic,as far as killingpower goes try a 500 smith

That was not an easy sentence to read.

Scruffy, he was not in your gr.8 literature class?? Mark

Demonical,

in the last year or so, BC permits started getting administered from the Surrey CFO office, not Edmonton as they were previously.

In 2005, Edmonton issued BC,AB,YT,NU,NT on one permit. When I renewed in 2006 the BC office only issued BC/YT, and made me apply separately to Edmonton, who I think also administers NU/NT, so you will most likely have to apply to BC separately.

The BC CFO is pretty easy to deal with.

To address another question, ATC's are specific to specific pistols, but you can include ANY pistol, even ones you don;t own, so if you want to apply before buying, just include a description/registration from a buddies suitable pistol and send it in.

There is no required course in BC/AB, contrary to what some try to tell you (mainly to get $$$ from you). You just need the appropriate forms and a "Proof of Proficiency" from a Range Officer (whatever that is), a Peace Officer, or CFSC, BB or use of force instructor

quote:

Originally posted by free_miner:
so if you want to apply before buying, just include a description/registration from a buddies suitable pistol and send it in.
[...]"Proof of Proficiency" from a Range Officer (whatever that is), a Peace Officer, or CFSC, BB or use of force instructor

Oh, that's nice... If I should get it I can go buy, and then send notice that I want this and such gun included on the ATC?

A "Range Officer", eh? So, the guy that works at the Phoenix range in Edmonton, who saw me drill a big ragged hole in a man-target with a .45 pistol could write me a statement?

How about an IPSC board member? Or would the IPSC Black Badge course do?

Frans

quote:

Originally posted by Frans Diepstraten:
Oh, that's nice... If I should get it I can go buy, and then send notice that I want this and such gun included on the ATC?

A "Range Officer", eh? So, the guy that works at the Phoenix range in Edmonton, who saw me drill a big ragged hole in a man-target with a .45 pistol could write me a statement?

How about an IPSC board member? Or would the IPSC Black Badge course do?

Frans

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/online-en_ligne/form-assistance/PDFs/680_e.pdf

on the form there is a box asking for registration certificate numbers, and a section for the PAL number of the owner, if it belongs to someone else. Me and a couple others have each others pistols on our ATC's in case we need to borrow one on short notice.

If you buy/acquire another pistol, you simply fax in a registration cert and a requet and they will send you an amendment.

Since there is no formal definition of Range Officer (far as I know), they are pretty flexible about it. If you are in a rural area, they will generally allow a designated RO from any shooting club that is approved for restricteds to sign you off, though they told me they prefer a LEO or a CFSC instructor.

You will have to demonstrate proficiency with the same or similar pistol you intend to carry, and they need to write a letter stating that they have observed you handling and firing the pistol and believe you to be safe and competent. A BB would work if you shot the BB with the intended carry pistol.

By the way, the form 680 also needs to be accompanied by a ATC questionnaire, which is only available directly form the CFO office. I have a BC one in pdf somewhere if you want to PM me an email address.

To add to what Free Miner said, they also require you to use the holster that you would use for your handgun. I bought a holster from Galco in the USA and it will fit either my .44 Mag or my .480 Ruger.

When the RCMP officer had me shoot, I had to have my revolver holstered, with the strap closed. He would yell. "bear!" and then I would have to unstrap the revolver, draw, aim and fire (accurately).

When coming out of the bush, how many of us are asked by RCMP/CO's if we have handgun's in our pockets?