Gentlemen,

Since you were such a big help with the clothing, I come to you with my next question: What bullet would you choose for hunting the bruisers in Saskachewan?

The rifle should be here this week, and it's got a 1:9.5 twist and shoots the 139 SST under an inch at 100yds. Is this bullet going to be tough enough for the size deer I'll be shooting at up to 200yds? I am an accuracy nut but understand the need for a proper bullet. Your experiences will surely be appreciated.


Thanks in advance for your replys.

Jimno

Never used the SST but I htink a 140gr TSX or 140gr Accubond woudl work well.

I'd be trying out the 140 TSX or 140 or 150 Nosler partition. I'll assume your preference for shot will be the high pins and while 200 yards might be in the cards I'd guess 100 or less is more likely..all of which I'd want something a bit tougher then the sst! If these don't meet your standards then try the 154 Hornady IB or 160 Nosler AB.

I know the ballistic tip or sst will work on our deer, since using both but pins or close aren't really were they excel or designed for.

Good Luck

I have taken over two dozen deer,pronghorn and bighorn with the 140gr ballistic tip out of my 7mmstw's.Not one animal has covered 50 yards after being hit.It gets a little messy if you hit a shoulder but it provides quick clean kills.The 140gr accubond and tsx are also great choices.

I lean towards bullets of conventional design for deer; the SSt's are fine, Sierra Gamekings,Speer hotcor etc. These are big deer but they are still deer of up to and sometimes a little over 300 pounds. A more rapidly expanding bullet works best on a lungshot broadside deer. The heavy for caliber controlled expansion bullets will let a deer cover a lot of ground when hit through both lungs. I have used not all but many of the bullets mentioned here and personally am shooting 139 Hornady Interlocks. Nothing new or trendy but deadly on deer of the size we have here. Oddly the young fellow at Wholesale Sports in Lethbridge suggested that those ancient bullets were of little use. Tell that to the many deer I and others have killed very cleanly with this conventional design bullet. For what its worth.

It's a 200-300lb deer, same as the ones south of the border, they're not armour plated. Your 139 SST will do fine.

I tend to hunt with TSX or partitions most often, but almost always I have tags for multiple species and we might run into something bigger. IF it's a whitetail only hunt and you are flying back home without the meat, the SST woudl do great. REally any decent bullet with work on a deer.

i have a friend that was a serious saskat' whitetail hunter whose avg. deer was about 164. he switched from a .270 to a .300 mag because the 300 lb. deer were not dropping fast enough. some required more than one shot. since switching to the .30 cal all have been one shot kills.

if you must use the .280 then i would go for the 160 gr. n.p.. like said above your shot will likely be under 100 yds. i shot mine in the neck at 50 yds. with a .300 wthby and 220 gr. hornady bullets. i don't like when they run. up close it is too easy to shoot them in the shoulder, go for the neck shot and they drop where they stand. nose first into the bait pile.

good luck, pound them hard.

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if you must use the .280 then i would go for the 160 gr. n.p..

If you want your deer to run a bit after being hit,go with a heavy partition.If you want your deer to drop,go with the ballistic tip or accubond.That has been my own experience on several dozen of our Alberta and Saskatchewan deer.

from my own experience, when you shoot them in the neck, they can't hit the ground fast enough, whether you are using a n.p., accubond, barnes or musket ball.

if they are too far for a neck shot, then shoot them in the shoulder breaking both and again they aren't going anywhere. b.t.w. n.p. breaks shoulders very well.

if you go for the lungs, of course they are going to run. the only question is how far...

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if they are too far for a neck shot, then shoot them in the shoulder breaking both and again they aren't going anywhere. b.t.w. n.p. breaks shoulders very well.

Well I personally don't use neck shots after having to track a few deer that hit the ground at the shot and then got up and ran away.These deer were shot by other hunters,I might add.The bullets struck near the vertebrae but did not sever it,so the animals were only stunned.After having to shoot one deer again and having long tracking jobs to recover the other two,I decided to stick with lung shots.I don't see the point of ruining both front quarters of a deer by shooting it through both front shoulders,so I use ballistic tips at high velocity and use lung shots.Of the last couple of dozen deer shot with this combination,most dropped on the spot or within a few steps and not one covered fifty yards after being hit.

I use a 30-06 so it is much the same as your .280. I have had good luck with Hornady 165 Interlocks. Pentetration and expansion were all one can ask for.

As Gatehouse said, I never used the SST bullets but if they are similar to the Accubonds as a bonded bullet, they will do fine. 140gr Accubonds and TSX do a great job on deer, elk and moose here in Alberta with my 270WSM.

Why hit shoulders if you dont have to-ruin alot of meat. A shot to the boiler maker behind the front shoulders will take your deer out. And with a 280Rem - double lung shots with should be easy.

Good luck on your hunt in SASKATCHEWAN

Shoot what ever your rifle likes the best and your comfortable with.You will likely be close enough to count hairs and be able to pick your shot.Dont get caught up in the finer details,more Sk whitetails have been shot with lesser firearms and bullets than can be counted.Just hit them where it matters, your biggest target the heart and lungs.

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I never used the SST bullets but if they are similar to the Accubonds as a bonded bullet

The sst is nothing like an accubond.The hornady version of the accubond is the interbond.

I would pick a standard interlock in 154 grain for the 280 Rem.

The 139 gr bullet will do the job. The 139 is like a 140gr bullet and thats all you need to take out a deer. Thru the lungs less meat damage. Deer might go 30 or 40 yds but thats not far.

stumblejumper;

where to shoot is a personal preference decision. the shot you refer to was it low in the neck?

i have taken everything from moose and brown bear to deer with neck shots and each one dropped like a ton of bricks just fell on it. no tracking.

if the c spine is severed or shocked the c.n.s. is dirupted causing instand death. the good news is if the c spine is missed the espohagous, jugular vein and carotid artery are all right there and are all quickly fatal. i like to shoot high in the neck if close in and as the distance gets greater i aim lower in the neck. if conditions for the shot are right, if not then i take a shoulder shot.

if you hit them right they go no where. speaking from my own experience. the n.p. has worked on everything i have shot it at and i almost always get a one shot kill. there are more technolgically advanced bullets out there, but i won't switch until it lets me down. i like heavy bullets that will break large bones as opposed to faster opening bullets that will do more tissue damage. this is my choice.

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if the c spine is severed or shocked the c.n.s. is dirupted causing instand death.

There is no doubt that if the spine is severed ,the animal will be killed quickly.However in all three instances the bullets struck close to the spine but did not severe it.In all three cases the deer dropped at the shot,and in all three cases they regained their feet and ran off.Simply shocking the spine does not guarantee instant death.You can shock the spine enough to stun an animal without causig instant death.The incidents that I refer to prove that.Yes two of the deer did dies as a result of bleeding out,but they covered a lot of ground before doing so.The spine is a very small target compared to the lungs,so to avoid any more long tracking jobs,I will stick to my much higher percentage lung shots.

FWIW I personally like the BT however my advice to the poster was based on years as a guide! Since he is coming on a guided hunt I gave him a suggestion that most outfitters here would based on the situation that is at hand. Meat wasted??? Well to be frank not really a consideration for a trophy or guided hunt. Even at that the amount of meat lost to a shoulder shot with partition or better yet a barnes TSX is not near as that with: core and cup or even the polymer bonded bullets.

Of course accuracy is important but you must also weigh in the hunting sitaution, shot placement, etc.

Good Luck

quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:
The incidents that I refer to prove that.Yes two of the deer did dies as a result of bleeding out,but they covered a lot of ground before doing so.The spine is a very small target compared to the lungs,so to avoid any more long tracking jobs,I will stick to my much higher percentage lung shots.

how many deer have been shot thru one lung or on an angle thru one lung and covered huge distances and were not recovered dead or recovered from their wounds? true the lungs are a larger target and for guys with poor marksmanship skills, the larger target, is the better target for them.

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how many deer have been shot thru one lung or on an angle thru one lung and covered huge distances and were not recovered dead or recovered from their wounds?

By me,none?

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true the lungs are a larger target and for guys with poor marksmanship skills, the larger target, is the better target for them.

I guess that we all aren't execeptional shots like yourself.Either that or we just have too much respect for the animals that we hunt to take low percentage shots.

stumblejumper;
first you demean my choice of shot selection , now you demean my marksmanship? what gives, did you get up on the wrong side of the bed and kick the dog?

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Originally posted by stubblejumper:

Well I personally don't use neck shots after having to track a few deer that hit the ground at the shot and then got up and ran away.These deer were shot by other hunters,I might add.The bullets struck near the vertebrae but did not sever it,so the animals were only stunned.After having to shoot one deer again and having long tracking jobs to recover the other two,I decided to stick with lung shots.I don't see the point of ruining both front quarters of a deer by shooting it through both front shoulders,so I use ballistic tips at high velocity and use lung shots.Of the last couple of dozen deer shot with this combination,most dropped on the spot or within a few steps and not one covered fifty yards after being hit.

just because i can hit a moose in the neck, now i am an expert? most guys would agree a moose's neck is a large target. i hit a deer in the neck at less than 50 yds and now i am a marksman? i think most guys are capable of making those shots and i am no different. you inferred your clients are lousy shots, maybe you don't know the the butt from the muzzle either... try using the sights, they work pretty well.

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first you demean my choice of shot selection , now you demean my marksmanship?

Actually you demeaned the marksmanship of others by placing yourself above them by making the statement below.

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true the lungs are a larger target and for guys with poor marksmanship skills, the larger target, is the better target for them.

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you inferred your clients are lousy shots

Actually they are not clients ,just people that I hunt with.And no I didn't infer that they are lousy shots.They are in fact average or above average shots,but when shooting at small target such as neck vertebrae,it takes only a very small error to result in only stunning the animal instead of killing it.

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most guys would agree a moose's neck is a large target.

The neck is a fair sized target,but the vertebrae is a fairly small target.If the animal even moves it head,it is easily missed.

stumblejumper;

kindly provide the "quote" where i placed my marksmanship above any others. if you can not, than stop putting words in my mouth and trying to read into what i said. i made no such comparision. neck shots, from my experience are not low percentage shots. everyone i have taken required no tracking, nor follow up shots and the animals were d.r.t.. can you say that about the lung shots?

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Originally posted by stubblejumper:

Well I personally don't use neck shots after having to track a few deer that hit the ground at the shot and then got up and ran away.These deer were shot by other hunters,I might add.

if you and the "other hunters" are having trouble with low percentage neck shots, than try going to the range and practicing and using a rest and you will be amazed at the results that will be had on close range shots. the "other hunters" are either taking shots they should not be taking or why is it that above avg. shots are having wounded deer that are getting away? you did not paint them in a favoraboe light that they need your help to track their deer, after wounding their deer. the above avg. shots that you are talking about should be taking lung shots since they are wounding the deer anyway. they don't sound like above avg. shots to me.

saskat' deer that are shot over bait, are close range shots. outfitter's do not want wounded deer that will get away so, they tend to place the stands as close as possible to the bait. sometimes closer than 50 yds. like in my case, making a neck shot a peice of cake.

out of respect for the other members here, if you would like to continue this childish banter, you may p.m. me for further discussion. or we can agree to disagree, on shot selection?

as i mentioned above, you again left out, if the c spine is missed you can still take out the following; juggular vein, carotid artery, esophagous all are in the neck and all of which are quickly fatal when severed.

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you did not paint them in a favoraboe light that they need your help to track their deer, after wounding their deer

When I hunt with others,we help each other to recover game and if necessary to track game.I assumed that most other people do the same.

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as i mentioned above, you again left out, if the c spine is missed you can still take out the following; juggular vein, carotid artery, esophagous all are in the neck and all of which are quickly fatal when severed.

You may sever one or more of these,but then again you may not.

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saskat' deer that are shot over bait, are close range shots. outfitter's do not want wounded deer that will get away so, they tend to place the stands as close as possible to the bait. sometimes closer than 50 yds. like in my case, making a neck shot a peice of cake.

I have seen several videos from Saskatchewan outfitters and outfitters elsewhere that show deer being shot over bait.I have also seen several television shows where does and management deer were taken.They always encourage the hunter to place the bullet behind the shoulder.I have yet to see one tell a client to shoot a deer in the neck.And that applies to management deer or does where the cape is not a concern.

Do you believe tha Jimno 2506s guide is going to encourage him to shoot a deer in the neck?Even if the cape was damaged,it can easily be repaired or replaced.

Getting back to the bullet question, I used the 165 gr Trophy Bonded bullet in Federal ammunition in my .308 Win, and it worked well on the 300+ pound buck I shot.

I expect the same bullet in .284/140 grain would work well too.

jim

let's continue this until the other members complain, even though you are unlikely to gain anything out of it anyway.

how many guided deer hunts have you been on in saskat'? i have been on 4. so i am talking from my own field experience, what are you talking from? magazine articles and hunting videos?

if you really wanted to help the other hunters you hunt with, you would have encouraged them to take shots that they can actually make, get lots of practice, use a rest, wait for the deer to come in close at an angle that makes the shot more favorable.

when you make a lung shot, you may have quartering toward or away from you or any number of other presentations, or the animal may move. so you may hit both lungs, just one, or miss both, the notorious dead spot in the boiler room shot.

i don't know who the outfitter in question is, what the terrain is like or the shooting ability of the hunter, so how can i make an intelligent comment without the necessary info?

i talk from actual field experience, not from magazine articles or hunting videos. i can tell you that most outfitters will recomend the lung shot so they have the highest chance of recovering the game as their clients shooting ability and buck fever will vary widely from client to client. i never said that the lungs were not a good selection or whatever, only that the neck is where i like to shoot, as well as the shoulders when necessary. for me and the other guys i hunt with the neck has been 100% successful and that is not low percentage.

since i only talk about what i do know , i can tell you this. my outfitter does recomend a neck shot when available, for the following reasons. we are hunting bush bucks, in heavy brush. the shots range from as close as 40 yds. like my shot, to as far as 80 yds. almost all of these shots could be made with archery equipment. the outfitter is present when guys shoot at the range and reconfirm their zero before going a field, so he knows there shooting ability, many guys are annual repeat customers. he recomends a neck shot to the guys he thinks can make it, because he has seen them shoot, knows what distances the shot will likely come at and sometimes the brush is so thick the the head and neck is all you would see. if you wait for a lung shot, you may never see the chest/torso, so no shot then. these bucks don't like to come out in the open, just when they are on t.v.. many guys have come up to hunt for 8 or 10 years in a row in addition to doing lots of other hunting and have many deer 145 and above on their wall. would you tell
them where to shoot their deer?

if you have hunted saskat' then you already know this? hunting is saskat' to me is glorified target shooting over bait, that being said, it is still done under field shooting conditions. if you have to wait for the perfect high percentage shot, then you are likely to be unsuccessful. my outfitter's tree stands have an adjustable bar across them which makes for a great shooting rest, he's smart.

like said above, most guys who hunt with an outfitter over bait are trophy hunting and not worried about a little extra meat being blood shot. there is more than enough venison to go around, to the point that it is a problem to give it all away. meat hunting and trophy hunting is two different things.

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how many guided deer hunts have you been on in saskat'? i have been on 4. so i am talking from my own field experience, what are you talking from? magazine articles and hunting videos?

I grew up in Saskatchewan and although I now live in Alberta,I still hunt whitetails in Saskatchewan every year.That adds up to over 30 years of hunting whitetails in Saskatchewan.A friend that I often hunted with guides for a whitetail outfitter.I have also hunted Manotoba with a friend that outfits for whitetail and bear.I have hunted as a resident with A couple of Alberta outfitters for bighorn,and one of them also guides for deer.I have hunted Montana with outfitters for both deer and elk.I have hunted new mexico for elk and I have taken elk,moose,deer,cougar,grizzly in B.C.Every single outfitter encouraged all of their hunters to use lung shots or in the case of grizzly to take out the lungs and shoulders.Not one outfitter or guide recommended neck shots.

Yikes!!! WHat did I start here?

I'm a firm believer in lung/heart shots so let's not belabor that point....anymore.

I am a good shot, my rifle is almost moa at 100yds and I'll wait for a broadside shot.

Let's talk terminal ballistics of 7mm bullets, Ok?

Jimno

I shoot a Rem 700 Mountain Rifle chambered in 280 Rem and load it with IMR4350 and 139gr SST bullets @ 3080fps. I have had this rifle for over 15 years now and everything that I load in it shoots under 1" @ 100 yards.

I have found in most cases the 139gr SST's give reliable performance in this rifle on deer and large black bears. Though I am comsidering a bonded core bullet when I use these one up.

I have mostly stepped up to larger calibers and my son has moved into the 280 for now. In the last couple of years he has shot a 2 point mule deer buck and a 6' black bear. The buck was a broadside shot that he hit high in the shoulders but it dropped instantly it was maybe 20 yards away. The black bear was about 100 yards away broadside and it was a perfect shot that took the top of the heart off.

I have seen one failure to drop a black bear @ 200 yards though with these same bullets. I was watching through my scope and saw the bullet impact perfectly in the lung area on a broadside shot. That bear jumped thrashed about clawing at everything around it and then it just took off like a bat out of h*ll.

It took us about 2 hours to find it and we only found it in the end because a group of bear hunters with dogs showed up and helped track it.

Jimno, simply put... the 139 grain SST in your 280 will be plenty of bullet for any Saskatchewan whitetail. I shoot a couple of 280 Remingtons and in the past, handloaded the 139 grain SST's with great success. My wife shoots a 257 Roberts and I handloaded 117 grain SST's for her. A couple of years back she took a beautiful Alberta whitetail buck, broadside, at 145 yards with a single shot. The buck travelled about 30 yards before expiring. It weighed close to 250 lbs. I recovered the bullet and it was similar to what I have seen with a Nosler Ballistic Tip. Good luck on your hunt!

Having guided deer hunters in Sask for a number of years the following things stick out.
I would personally never tell a hunter to try a neck shot. In the bush even a severed artery means a flash run of 200+ yd,albiet trackable in good conditions. Deers shot thru esophagus will run until their lungs fill with blood(many miles)
Most of the hunters are here with the idea of taking horns and a small amt. of meat home. A shot thru both shoulders anchors the deer and is my preference for guided hunters. The spoiled meat is a minor concern.
Heart/lung shots are similar to neck. A 275# whitetail can cover a lot of ground when heartshot, however again trackable.
As to your choice of bullet, any 140gr. or so will work and the 280 is one of the best whitetail cart. going.
These are my opinions only. Good luck,it is presently snowing like nutz in N.Sask,Mark

140 BT or SST's will work fine if you plan to limit yourself to broadside or 1/4 away shots. I have taken a number of whitetails and mule deer bucks with 7mm/BT style bullet from as close as 30 yards to 400 and never had any trouble collecting my deer. In fact very few in my memory covered more than 50 yards. However if you may want to take a shoulder or 1/4 towards I think I would at least try a more substantial bullet like TSX, Partition, etc in comparison, both will work fine for the above but will give you additional insurance of tough angle, direct bone hits or high impact velocities. In a guided hunt in the forest, even with bait employed doesn't insure you'll get a textbook broadside relaxed shot, many take what is presented as such I believe more is never a bad thing. If your willing and able to pass moving or off angle shots at what maybe the only shooter you see in your 6/12 hr days in a blind or stand then shoot whatever bullet is most accurate. If not then look to a stouter/over built bullet for your hunt. Hence why most guys who come here are over gunned and/or over built in the bullet department to a many resident deer standards but other things are factored into the equation. In fact I know many resident trophy hunters who share this same mentality.

Good Luck

Well, I hunt Saskatchewan whitetails with a 280 Remington. It has accounted for several whitetail,mule deer, an elk and numerous coyotes. For whitetail and mule deer I have used 140 grain Sierra Pro Hunters, 140 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips and 139 grain Hornady Interlock BTSP. Of all the animals shot, I found the Hornady to work the best from 50 to 300 yards. Our deer are not bulletproof. A well placed shot is far more important than using one of the new super bullets. Of course you can't go wrong shooting a Nosler Partition or Barnes X. I have used both in my 280 with entirely satisfactory results. Good luck in your hunt.

Guys,

I never did get the 139SSTs to shoot consistantly well, so I went bullet shopping. Ended up with the 150 Nosler BT and I think I've found a winner.

I'm playing with seating depth right now. Went to the range in the wind yesterday and consistantly shot uner 1.25" @ 100yds with about 50gr H4350. Two of the 5 shot groups were one holers, with a flyer or two that opened the groups to over an inch, but just barely. I was in a bit of a rush so these weren't my best groups, and I did heat the barrel a bit.

Rifle likes them loaded close to the lands, that's for sure.

Less than 4 weeks to go!

Jim

The 140 TSX is incredible on deer. Spend a few bucks for the premium bullets and enjoy. You can expect lung shots to pass through and they will bleed out fast. They stay together well and penetrate well. Many of the lead core bullets seperate badly. Some people like that but I don't.
Good Luck and soon you should have some great venison chili that we had tonight. MMMMMMgood.

Nosler 160 partition. It will get them all!

lots of opinions here, but i will join in.

What if you see a Big pig of a bruiser deer that is 50 yards (or 150) and moving away in heavy cover. No thin jacketed bullet will get the job done.

A heavy A-frame or partition design will.

Ya know I just bust my sides reading about some guy in the States who's probably never seen a whitetail in excess of 150lbs. on the hoof, giving bullet selection criteria for someone coming up to Alberta or Saskatchewan.
I have taken many large bodied whitetails(40+) and about half a dozen moose with my .284Win. using nothing but 139gr. Hornady BTSP's @ 3100fps.
Never needed heavier and I certainly had my fair share of bad angles and the such, and yes Virginia the lowley BTSP has never let me down.
I can only think of 2 recovered bullets. One on a head on shot at a moose at 150yds, the bullet went through the skull and broke around 20" of spine while it travelled through the spine. Recovered weight was low but the core was still in the jacket, or what was left of it. Not bad for a non premium bullet on probably the toughest media short of steel.
The other was a 380 yd. poke at an average Alberta WT buck, I drilled him in both front shoulders and recovered the bullet under the hide on the off side, pretty as they come with something like 65% weight retention.