Is this true?

Well do you have any further info as to where you heard or saw this information?

At present the border between the US and Canada is closed until late July. I will not be surprised in the least to see that closure extended and lets face it, extending a month will cut into the early seasons for sheep, etc in the north. A two month extension will cause further problems. At some point it becomes impossible for outfitters to open up and supply camps for the fall hunts.

There is a strong likelihood that there will also continue to be 14 day self quarantine periods involved as well. This will be hugely problematic for everyone.

I have seen nothing definitive that says the 2020 fall hunts are cancelled for all non-residents. Having said that, just the fact that we do not know where this is all heading and knowing the logistics involved with most remote outfitting/lodges etc. I would say there is a strong possibility that 2020 could be a complete bust.

We all need to be watching and paying attention. Those of you who are booked with an outfitter in Canada need to keep the lines open so that you know what is happening.

I can tell you that I personally know outfitters who fully expect that they will not be able to run their fall hunts and have been in contact with their clients to work things out for the future.

I've just heard that outfitters are rescheduling hunts (even aug/sep hunts) to 2021/2022. I could not find anything official online.

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
I've just heard that outfitters are rescheduling hunts (even aug/sep hunts) to 2021/2022. I could not find anything official online.

I don't think you are going to see anything official on line, at least not like that. That would be like expecting the United States of America saying all hunts in the fall 2020 across the entire US are cancelled and being rescheduled.

As I said in my previous post, there are some outfitters doing that as the writing is on the wall. If you are booked to hunt in Canada in the fall you should be talking to your outfitter and seeing what they think is going to happen and what their plans are.

You need to understand what is involved to run the hunts. Borders have to open, the 14 day self quarantine needs to be addressed. The outfitter needs to know what is going on and plan for it...meaning they need to know if they can operate and if so they then need to get their camps up and running, supplies moved into place, horses trailed in, charter flights arranged, and their employees on tap, etc. etc. etc.

Again...if you have a hunt booked you should be in close contact with your outfitter about what is happening as things are and can be different from one province to another. Asking on a forum on the internet is most likely your poorest choice of info gathering IMO.

We've got Yankees here doing the tourist thing , by claiming to be going to Alaska, when crossing the border. You play, you pay.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/...ut-3Up9nucoje8kNZXwq

Grizz

I do not have a hunt booked. I was wondering what others have heard. Silly me for asking a question about Canadian hunting on a Canadian hunting forum.

No...silly me for trying to answer you. Not sure why I wasted my time with a response like that. But then again it is the internet and oh well.............if you can't be bothered to put in more effort than one liners, I guess that should tell me what I need to know.

As I get older, I find that many of the sayings I have believed turn out to be untrue. This thread shoots down another one; "There are no stupid questions". The hell there aren't. "Is this true?" Contact an outfitter and try to book a hunt; then you can tell us. Regards, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams1:
We've got Yankees here doing the tourist thing , by claiming to be going to Alaska, when crossing the border. You play, you pay.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/...ut-3Up9nucoje8kNZXwq

Grizz

Yea, my pal who lives near Banff said that is pretty common, but authorities are now fining them pretty hard.

Happy to keep Canadians at home. Dealing with most of Texas and Washington state currently!

Ski+3
Whitefish, MT

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
I do not have a hunt booked. I was wondering what others have heard. Silly me for asking a question about Canadian hunting on a Canadian hunting forum.

I think all he was saying is that ANY forum may not be the best source of authoritative information.

August 31st. My BC hunt was to start August 28th...

https://rdnewsnow.com/2020/07/...DFosV8TzRnivRgz60XY0

Info in the news is always questionable and usually not complete. There are two issues. One is the border being open for travel. It is not and is currently closed until the end of July except for essential travel. This news item is for the 14 day quarantine period, a separate issue, and it has now been extended to August 31st.

As we approach the end of July we will see if they are going to extend the border closure. At this point I can assure you that the Health Minister in BC and the Premier will be pressuring the Federal government to extend the closure due to the numbers we are seeing in Washington state and the US in general. I would not get my hopes up about the border opening.

As long as there are the sort of case numbers coming out of the US that are occurring now, most government officials are going to be against the border opening. Just the way it is and all any of us can do is try and stay on top of the situation.

Might be a good idea if someone starts a thread about the border issues and keeps it updated for everyone when there are announcements.

Covid 19 Update Today For USA and Canada.

USA active cases 1.5 million
CAN active cases 28,000

USA new cases 52,000
CAN new cases 226

We need the closed border for now.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/st...ers-due-to-covid-19/



HUNTING

Canada’s Border is Closed to American Hunters Due to COVID-19 (and It Could Cost Many Outfitters Their Livelihood)

The border is expected to stay closed until July 21, but it could be longer


By Joe Genzel

July 10, 2020



For many of us here in the U.S., an annual hunting or fishing trip to Canada is a longstanding tradition. And Canadians, particularly those in the more remote western provinces, depend on American tourism dollars to bolster local economies. But the U.S.-Canada border has been closed since March and will remain so until at least July 21. There is also a 14-day quarantine rule in place that will stay in effect until Aug. 31. That means anyone who does come into the country must self-isolate for two weeks. In most cases, Canadian citizens are also not permitted to drive or fly from province-to-province without quarantine.

A recent poll showed 81 percent of Canadians don’t want the border to open to Americans, mainly due to the uncertainty surrounding COVID-19 surges in the U.S. That’s bad news for outfitters in Canada. Of course, the safety of both countries takes precedence over the financial hit the hunting and fishing industry will endure. But an unfortunate outcome of the pandemic is that some guiding businesses won’t make it through.



It’s a bitter pill to swallow, but when the U.S. is seeing spikes in positive COVID-19 tests (though deaths have tapered), it’s difficult for Canada to open its border and safely allow Americans into the country, though it is possible once the U.S. makes it through this second surge. Iceland has broken through as a shining example, hosting international travelers since June by using a rigorous testing program, saving its tourism industry from financial peril. There have been pleas made by Canadian Travel and Tourism, which generates $74 billion and employs 1.8 million people, to allow healthy Americans into Canada, as U.S. citizens make up two-thirds of international tourists in Canada. But so far Prime Minster Justin Trudeau hasn’t budged.

There is no public plan or procedure in place for opening the border, only a projected date that keeps getting moved back, which has been a serious frustration for outfitters. It has left them in limbo, unsure if their outfits will continue to tread water with pre-COIVID profits, or ultimately drown. Alberta’s Professional Outfitters Society reported guides in the province have lost $68 million in revenue since the pandemic began in March. Two thousand people are also jobless due to the lack of clients.



To find out how outfitters across Canada are coping with the border closure, I talked to four Canadian guides. We wanted to know how they are navigating these strange and difficult times, and if they expect their businesses to survive the pandemic.

1. Sheep Hunting on Hold

In British Columbia, 32-year-old Rachel Ahtila, waits anxiously for the border to open. She guides sheep and other big game with Dustin Roe at Backcountry BC and Beyond in B.C. as well as the Yukon and Northwest Territories. There is considerable cost in operating outfits in such places. The overhead is massive. You have to cut trails and ready camps, feed and maintain 60 head of horses, purchase food to sustain an entire roster of clients and staff for up to four months, and charter planes to get everyone there. Plus there is the cost of fuel, trucks and trailers, and the biggest expense—paying back the note on the hunting area/lease you’re in.

“Yes, we need a season,” Ahtila says. “There is so much infrastructure beyond just a hunt that we are supporting, and we are all suffering in the unknown. We want to be in the mountains doing what we love, giving our clients the best experience we can, but we also need to be able to cover a business’ year-round costs. There are thousands of people in Canada that rely on the hunting industry as a source of income.”



A major hurdle in B.C. for guides is the phased re-opening plan. Right now, the province is in Phase 3 of 4. The U.S.-Canada border would re-open in Phase 4 but for that to occur, one of three things has to happen: a vaccine, community immunity, or broad and/or successful treatments. The first two aren’t likely to happen until 2021 at the earliest, and the third has a long way to go on the U.S. side of the border. It will certainly help business if Ahtila can get more Canadian hunters in the mountains, but that’s also up in the air at this point because of last-minute rescheduling and logistics. Some Canadian airlines are either shut down or flying at limited capacities, and travel between many of the provinces is limited.

“Some of it just doesn’t make sense with the allowed protests but mitigated gatherings [in the U.S.],” Ahtila says. “I actually flew from Canada to Arkansas to show that this can be done safely amid COVID-19. I wore a mask, brought hand sanitizer…I think it can be done if we take precautions. Otherwise, our industry is going to take a major hit… More than it already has.”

Once the border is open, that will present another set of obstacles for outfitters. There will likely be testing procedures and other restrictions placed on international travelers. It’s near impossible to prepare for because the Canadian government hasn’t been forthcoming with a structured agenda to re-open the border. They continue to extend the closure month-by-month with little or no notice before announcing the potential re-opening dates. And the recent climb in U.S. COVID-19 cases—and Trudeau’s refusal to visit the White House in early July—doesn’t bode well for open travel in the immediate future.



“It’s going to be hard to get our clients to hunting camps because there are so many unknowns with the continuing border closure,” Ahtila said. “We also have a considerable amount of gear ready to go if we get a green light, but we are planning to work with a reduced staff for the time being. It’s not going to be easy for anyone in the tourism industry.”



2. Spring Was a Bust in Alberta

Steve and Debbie Overguard have been operating Alberta Adventures for nearly four decades, guiding clients for moose, bear, wolves, deer, cougar, and fishing. Ninety percent of their business comes from U.S. patrons, and Steve Overguard estimates that since the border closure, their business has taken a $140,000 hit. They hosted a few Canada residents for fishing trips at their cabin in the northern part of the province, near the Northwest Territories border, but had no spring bear hunting clients. If the border doesn’t open by September, keeping the guide service going will be tough.



“I suppose if it doesn’t open by then, I’ll just have to eat fish,” Overguard says. “All our supplies and fuel for our camp have to be trucked in on the ice roads in winter, so I pay for that all up front. Since no one knew this [pandemic] was coming it’s just sitting there waiting, not being used.”

Alberta had already been hit hard by the sharp decline of the oil and gas industry in recent years, and tourism became one of the provinces main sources of revenue. Many laid-off oil field workers turned to guiding for income. But that has ground to a halt and the job market has shrunk considerably due to the pandemic. It’s become tough to find any kind of work throughout the province, and with no detailed plan to open the border, it has outfitters and guides worrying when (or if) they will be able to return to the woods. There are some governmental stimulus packages available to business owners, but Overguard said it’s essentially a loan he must pay back.

“We don’t want a second wave of COVID-19,” Overguard says, “but I think there are ways to control it. The federal government just doesn’t seem that interested in helping us right now. I could take $40,000 in stimulus, but with the border closed, I can’t host clients, so I’m not sure if I can pay it back.”

Overguard is willing to follow tight restrictions and leap over any hurdles to get clients in camp. He thinks there are ways to safely bring hunters into the country and has been working to find solutions, though most of those ideas have fallen on deaf ears.

“I’ll turn a 10-day trip into a two-week trip so hunters can adhere to the quarantine restrictions,” Oveguard says. “I’ll stand outside the plane with a thermometer and take their temperature. It might cost me more money, but at least we can exist.”

3. Waterfowl Season Looks Bleak


Luke Scherders runs Wingfeather Outfitters, guiding clients for waterfowl and turkeys in Ontario. Years ago, when Scherders started the business, he recalled his dad half-joking about how he would make a living if all the ducks contracted bird flu one season and died.

“I told him that would never happen, and it didn’t,” says Scherders, “but COVID has done just as much damage to my business as that would have.”

His spring turkey clientele was down by more than 50 percent and he estimates losing between $30,000 and $50,000 in profits. It would have been more if not for so many Ontario hunters honoring their reservations. Scherders isn’t optimistic about the border opening for waterfowl season, which starts in September across much of Canada. He says most Canadians he talks to think the border will remain closed, maybe through the end of the year. There’s too much risk in allowing Americans to cross the border.


“I just don’t see how they could test all or even some of the people that want to come up here and shoot ducks,” Scherders says. “Most of my hunters are from the Midwest and South and drive here. Are they going to get out of their trucks at the border and get a COVID test or have their temperature taken?”

Scherders only runs 6 to 10 hunters a day (two groups maximum), and has a few other businesses to keep him financially sound, so if there isn’t a duck season this year, presumably he can pick it back up in 2021 because he doesn’t have a huge operation. He does see potential problems for larger outfitters, particularly ones that rely heavily on summer clients, like fishing camps.

“There’s a major fishing outfitter I know that typically runs 15 guides every day all summer long,” Scherders says. “He’s had three clients total this summer. You go from running 15 trips a day to a total of three clients, it’s gonna hurt.”

Large Canadian waterfowl operations are in jeopardy of folding too if the border doesn’t open, especially in the western provinces where very few residents use a guide. Many Americans guide or freelance in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba, and with the window closing rapidly on Canadian seasons, Scherders, who routinely hunts the U.S., expects to see U.S. outfitters benefit financially from the border closure.

“If you have private access or guide in the States, this could be a year to charge a premium, because so many hunters are likely not coming to Canada,” Schereders says. “I’ve already heard about American outfitters who typically come up here, setting up shop in North Dakota [and other states] to recoup some of the money they would have made in Canada. It could get interesting when the season opens in the States.”

Scherders has been taking deposits from clients (as many other outfitters have), but his guess is that he will be holding onto those checks and rolling them into next year. It’s nice to have some cash on hand now, but it also means that he will only make half of what he could have in 2021, because the deposit covers the first half of the total payment. He also breeds Labs, and still has four pups he can’t get to U.S. hunters due to the border closure.

“I can’t run 24 hunters through my camp a day,” says Scherders. “We just don’t have the bird numbers to do that. So, there’s no way I can make that money back quickly.”

4. Shutting Down the Yukon


Midnight Sun Outfitters has been operated by Jessie Young’s family for nearly four decades. Her father started the business in B.C. Young and her brother now run the guide service in the Yukon, hunting sheep, caribou, moose, bear, and wolves. They also host a fishing camp, which will open to Canadian residents this summer, and wilderness tours, which are on the schedule as well.

Young may also guide a few Canadian hunting clients, but she’s resigned to the fact that her American clientele is not going to be in camp this year. Since Midnight Sun is an established outfitter (and she has a full-time job in Alberta as a registered nurse) they will make it through the pandemic and be open for business when the border restrictions are lifted. But she said other outfitters were not so lucky, and went out of business.

“I have to say that the communication from TIA (Tourism Industry Association) Yukon has been phenomenal during this time,” Young says. “They were very open about what the plan was, and so we had a better idea than most on what our season was going to look like and were able to prepare better for it.”

The Yukon border opened to Canadians July 1, which will make it possible to guide a small amount of clients and make a bit of money (there are quarantine restrictions for residents from provinces other than B.C., the Northwest Territories, and Nunavut). Before July, the entire Yukon was shutdown. There was no outside travel allowed. You had to be a Yukon resident in order to enter, and agents were patrolling the border heavily to enforce that mandate. The Yukon is a hub for international travel and tourism—there are many direct flights from Europe into Whitehorse—and officials were concerned the robust tourism that existed before COVID shutdowns might have caused cases to spike even after restrictions were put into place.

Young is looking at the upsides of the phased reopening. Her outfit will be in the Yukon this summer hosting small groups only, but the entire season could have been lost. They will also take this season to focus on the management of the species in their concession (the territory they hunt).

“We are basically making nothing this year, and it’s a wash,” Young says. “But I am feeling pretty resilient. I know outfitters that are way worse off, and we are lucky to have the clientele that we do. We are making the best of it.”

Well looks like the Canada-US border closure is getting extended to late August, and those who are in the know believe it will continue to be extended until the US has things under control.

Several virologists that have been monitoring the current US situation believe it could be several months before it is contained south of the border IF there is a concerted effort by all of the states.

Given this information it is unlikely hunters from the US will be hunting in Canada this fall. Maybe there will be a quick turnaround, but it is unlikely.

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:
Well looks like the Canada-US border closure is getting extended to late August, and those who are in the know believe it will continue to be extended until the US has things under control.

Several virologists that have been monitoring the current US situation believe it outdated be several months before it is contained south of the border IF there is a concerted effort by all of the states.

Given this information it is unlikely hunters from the US will be hunting in Canada this fall. Maybe there will be a quick turnaround, but it is unlikely.

How bad is it here I the US? Could it be better?

I got the official statistics for us locally. I also got the official population numbers. What did it show? Well, that was fascinating.

The official numbers showed the death rate was .0004%. Four f'ing one hundredths of one percent!

How about positive cases? They were a staggering .0064%. Sixty f'ing four one hundredths of one percent . This included those who tested positive buy were asymptomatic.

Now our latest news locally is that a bunch of labs incorrectly reports ALL cases as positive when , at least in some cases, less than 10% were actually positive. Hmmmm……..

Could it be better? Hell yes. It could be a lot better. The resistance to basic precautions is shocking. This is especially true for the masks. Let's put it this way. My wife and my father in law are surgeons who went to Ivy League medical schools. Harvard & Dartmouth. After researching, they are both wearing masks. I will listen to them before I rely off some joker quoting a meme from Facebook.

These basic precautions are not a big price to pay to see most things back to normal.

Larry, I hear ya. Honestly, there is so much crap out there when it comes to numbers and experts that swing one way or the other, that it is hard for many to come to any sort of conclusion about the situation. That said, from the hunting perspective all that matters is what borders are closed, what precautions are in place if you can travel and what airlines are up and running to connect the dots.

At this point both the US and Canadian governments feel it is best to keep the border closed and from what the health ministers up here are saying, this is likely to be the case for some time. All we can do is wait and see, but I know if I had a hunt planned I would be getting serious about talking to the outfitter and getting some solid plans in place for moving the hunt to 2021 or 2022.

The way I see it
We will all hunt around our own states
It’s gonna get uglier before it gets better as government officials and politicians will go into a freak out mode more and more until the Us election