Which is better the 45 or the 10mm?

I like the .45 for in town and the 10MM for out in the woods if i had to choose one it would be the 10MM.
I carry a glock 20C more then any other handgun i own.

Gary

I like the .45 acp, more gun selection, more factory ammo selection and it is easy to get the guns to feed.

The 10mm case is longer and thinner, but it basically works in a .45 sized frame and holds a round or two more. The full bore 10mm loads, 180gr @ 1,200fps are AWSOME! We carried 1006's as duty weapons for a few years. Only one shooting involved, but they really knock down road injured deer!

I'd love a long slide 10mm for hunting

I really like the 10mm.
Most peopel I know have either the 45 or 40
and I like being different thats why I have a
300wsm and a 480 srh instead of the common calibers.

I suppose it depends on the task at hand. For general SD purposes...the 45ACP is more than adequate. For woods carry...the 10mm would be the better choice of the two.

But honestly, for the woods...a 41 mag, 44 mag, or 45 Colt would be infinitely better than a 10mm.

In a nutshell...to me...that's the problem with the 10mm. For SD purposes, it's extra "oomph" isn't really an appreciable improvement over other service calibers...and for woods carry it is really marginal at best. It basically behaves ballistically like a 357 magnum, with the advantage of higher capacity...and that's pretty much it.

Don't get me wrong, I am not poo-pooing the 10mm. It was and still is an innovative design.

For my purposes, the 10mm is way more than enough for self-defense...and there are other cheaper, more widespread, and lighter recoiling cartridges that really accomplish the same thing. By the same token, I would rather have more power than the 10mm can offer where animals are concerned.

It's a great cartridge, but it really doesn't serve a purpose for me.

I tried shooting full power factory loaded 10mm on the little reactive target set-up we have at our range. I am way slower with the 10mm, it's hard for me to get back on target as fast as with a .45 or a .40 S&W. For me, as much as the extra power is nice, I just can't shoot it as well as other calibers after the first shot.

I like the TEN more for any purpose.But thats just me.

I like both but carry the .45acp. It's just easier to hit faster with & more reliable in my 1911s than my Delta. My 1006 never FF or FF but it's a pretty big piece for CCW, fine for duty carry though. You can get 185gr+p loads for the .45acp that put it in the vel./energy zone of the 10mm w/ a bigger bullet.

I've been looking at the numbers and noticed
that as well. I am really fond of the 45 but
I do go to the outdoors more than urban enviroments,and the recent bear attack in
lower east Tenn I think the 10mm may have the
larger advantage.

Both great guns...carry what you shoot best...2 or 4 legged critters won't know the difference!!

Me-i'll stick to my 45-it comes pretty close to the original 45 colt load and the only automatic pistol i've ever bonded with is the stock GI.

.45, how many wars has it been through now?

The 45 ACP is the way to go for personal defense. The 45 caliber projectile just has LOTS of knock down power. Some used to ask, why do you carry a 45. My answer was cause they don't make a 46!!

I like the 45.We have (3) G21's in house now.I've had (2) different G20's and I like them,but not like the 45.The 10mm is a fun range gun and would be better for animals,but I prefer the 45 for CCW.

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
The 45 ACP is the way to go for personal defense. The 45 caliber projectile just has LOTS of knock down power. Some used to ask, why do you carry a 45. My answer was cause they don't make a 46!!

yes they do..
460 S&W
460 Rowland

A bit of correction needed here. A 10mm hardcast load in the 200gr range loaded to SAFE max produces approx 720ft# of energy. A 357Mag hardcast load in the 200gr range loaded to SAFE max produces approx 640ft#, so they are NOT equal for woods carry. Most 10mm factory loads are loaded down, hence S&W's development of the 40S&W which made the FBI management (and ladies) happy. I much prefer a quick doubletap from a reliable semi-auto than a wheel gun.

If I was pinning it down to only carry in town I would choose the .45 since in a similar weight gun it is more manageble, but if I had the choice I would choose the 40S&W over both. I love to carry my 10mm (especially in the woods) because it is a heavy gun and with practice and a heavy recoil spring it is very manageble. Compared to a lightweight 9mm (like my Kahr PM9), my hand stings more after a range session with the PM9 than with my S&W1006.

Deke.

what are the options as far as manufacturers go for a 10mm? as far as i know glock still offers one, but i can't think of anybody else. i've always wanted to get one. also, don't know much about them, but my dad insists there was a 10mm mag and a regular 10mm, any truth to that?

Colt did make 1911 style 10mm,EAA makes one in the Witness series,S&W (I think) made a 10mm revolver,and I've heard that Taurus has a 10mm revolver in the works.Glock still offers the G20 and G29 in 10mm.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist,but I've never heard of a 10mm Magnum.

Most "defense" bullets for the 45ACP are either 180 or 200gr.

The 10mm in it's original loadings propel 180gr bullets at velocities that Ragged edge IPSC loads for 38Supers would have difficulty
matching with 130's

It seems many think the 40S&W is a great defensive round, but let me point out that the 10mm current production factory loads shoots 180gr bullets faster than the 40S&W factory loads launch the 155's!

And the original Hornady 155gr 10mm load was a real scorcher at 1500fps plus. (Some of the very early batches were allegedly quoted at 1600+fps!)

I have personally chronographed 170gr factory loads at 1425fps.

I would imagine that would get the undivided attention of anything....

Though I will say your choices of handgun models is limited and the availability of ammunition can be even more limited...

AllanD

Yes, the 10mm Magnum is an entirely different round than the standard 10mm.

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt10mag.htm

As far as which is better? For what?!? I hashed this out earlier this year. I almost sold my 45 for a 10mm. But when it all comes down to it, they're basically identical. Sure the 10mm has more foot-lbs. BFD!! If the 45 ACP can't get the job done, I seriously doubt the 10mm can deliver more "end result". If you need more, you need to step up to a large bore revolver. Is the 10mm a good choice? YES!! I think it's an awesome round. I think the 45 ACP is too, but there just isn't THAT much difference in performance to choose one over the other. For me? I carry the 45 ACP for PD. I carry the 45 Colt for anything the 45 ACP can't do. Now that's a serious step-up in power that leaves the 10mm whimpering in the dust

There are plenty of S&W 1006 & 1076 on gunsamerica, gunbroker, auctionarms, etc. These are tanks and I know one ammo maker that has over 125,000 rds through one 1006. Some are even new in box. Used in good condition $425 to new in box $575. Glock makes two models. S&W also makes the revolver that will also shoot 40S&W for cheap practice. I believe Kimber makes some on the 1911 frame, but they are pricey. There are some Colt Delta Elites out there, but I have heard that they may be a little weak, so be sure of what you are buying. I have not heard great things about the EAA so I won't recomend that one.


Deke.

ManCannon,

Comparing the hottest 200gr load of a 10mm to a 45ACP, the 10mm is approx 100fps faster. That probably does not make a difference in energy, but when you consider the higher SD of the 10mm it will outpenetrate the 45ACP significantly. Not an advantage against perps, but could be a lifesaving one against teeth/claws. The 10mm is enough to penetrate to a black bear's CNS, much more manageable, and quicker shooting than the 45LC and if you want one gun for woods and town the 10mm beats both 45's hands down. If you have $ to purchase more than one gun then lots more options on the table, but I really like the idea of practicing alot with fewer guns (preferably one) because the first thing any shooter must do is place the bullet where it needs to be in a high stress situation. The FBI Ammunition Test Protocol (which is not the final word on real world results, but a good start) was very comprehensive on its tests through many materials with different cartridges and bullets for each. The 10mm and 357Mag were the only cartridges to meet the FBI performance requirements 100% of the time. It may be important to note that in the infamous Miami shootout which prompted the FBI testing, a 357Mag is what ended all of the chaos despite all of the buckshot and 9mm rds that were pumped into the perps.

Deke.

If the 10mm makes you feel cozy and warm while you're in bear country, then it's job is done. The truth, no matter what spin you put on it, is that the 10mm has been and always will be marginal as a bear defense round. Even the big bore revolvers aren't ideal, but a .452 300gr bullet traveling at 1200fps is something every 10mm wishes it could accomplish. Good thing the 10mm is a semi-auto... You're gonna need all you can carry.

After a trip to Montana and a conversation with a Corbon tech I purchased a 4 5/8" Ruger Blackhawk in 41mag and a few boxes of some Corbon 265gr CP ammo which is a good bear or anything load.I also have a 4 5/8" Ruger Blackhawk with 45acp & 45lc cylinders the new load data for the 45lc in strong revolvers makes it a formidable round for any big animal whether it be 2 or 4 legged.I've read and listened to the hype about the 10mm & 40 but the time proven 45acp has outperformed both and is the choice of our troops in Iraq & Afganistan.The 45 long colt is another well proven round and worked well in LE, sure made believers out of fleeing perps as it went thru car doors , trunk lids,thru seats & into the perps stopping them.I've handled a few wheel guns rather well and watched Jerry Miculek perform with all of his S&W's which outshoot bottom feeders. In a self preservation situation with dangerous animals my preference & those of many of my friends is a wheel gun shooting some heavy weight bullets.Check out http://www.castperformance.com heat treated hard cast lead bullets and load data which I use in my 45lc,454casull,41mag and will be in my 460.

quote:

Originally posted by scr83jp:
After a trip to Montana and a conversation with a Corbon tech I purchased a 4 5/8" Ruger Blackhawk in 41mag and a few boxes of some Corbon 265gr CP ammo which is a good bear or anything load.I also have a 4 5/8" Ruger Blackhawk with 45acp & 45lc cylinders the new load data for the 45lc in strong revolvers makes it a formidable round for any big animal whether it be 2 or 4 legged.I've read and listened to the hype about the 10mm & 40 but the time proven 45acp has outperformed both and is the choice of our troops in Iraq & Afganistan.The 45 long colt is another well proven round and worked well in LE, sure made believers out of fleeing perps as it went thru car doors , trunk lids,thru seats & into the perps stopping them.I've handled a few wheel guns rather well and watched Jerry Miculek perform with all of his S&W's which outshoot bottom feeders. In a self preservation situation with dangerous animals my preference & those of many of my friends is a wheel gun shooting some heavy weight bullets.Check out http://www.castperformance.com heat treated hard cast lead bullets and load data which I use in my 45lc,454casull,41mag and will be in my 460.

Hmmm.... the "time proven" 45ACP...

I have personally seen 45ACP slugs stopped by
1)laminated car windshields
2)Tire SIDEWALLS (let alone tread)
3)I've had a pair of jeans perforated while I was wearing them by a 45ACP slug that richocheted off of a car rim.

OTOH by way of comparison I've seen rifle like penetration from 10mm Hollowpoint bullets.

Through a car door while completely penetrating (actually shattering) a power window motor!
not only through a tire, but through a RIM, AND exiting through the tire TREAD afterwards.

And No magnum revolver in the world has a 9shot capacity.

Mabey that doesn't make much difference on a "soft" target like a black bear or on a bigger tougher target like a brown bear,

even the current "denatured" 10mm auto ammunition that is available is on average half again as powerful as any load for the 45ACP.

Comparing CorBon (or equivelent) 45ACP 200grain loads to anything other than CorBon's 200gr 10mm loads is manipulation of specs to further an arguement.

the 45ACP is NOT the equal of a 357Magnum load
the 10mm Auto even in it's more toothless form is very much equal to the 357Mag.
Handloaded, or with "original" level loadings of the 10mm Auto the 10mm is actually considerably superior to the 357Mag and superior to many (Some would argue "most") factory 44Mag loads, but this is largely a factor of the mfg's toning down the 44Mag for the vast heards of "wannabe" magnum shooters
the 41Mag in it's factory form is actually a more powerful loading than the 44Mag because of this....

AllanD

WOW!!!!!!! 10mm more powerful than the 44 mag factory??????

Where do you buy your ammo?!?!

45, cheaper factory ammo will let you shoot more.
John

Hmmmm,
A 44 Rem Mag with a normally seated 240 gn bullet has 25.2 gn [of H2O] usable case capacity, while the 10 mm has 14.6 gn of usable case capacity with a 180 gn normally seated bullet (McPherson ML, 1996). The 44 Mag has bigger, heavier bullets, and burns more powder.
I think "Scotty" would have said "Ya canna change the laws of physics."
Additionally, the 45 ACP has a 17.6 gn usable capacity with a 230 gn bullet (McPherson 1996). Imagine if the 45 ACP was routinely loaded to 10 mm pressures.

I suppose I'll have to count myself as one of the "vast heard[s]", but I'm not sure if I'm a "wannabe". I do actually own a 44 Mag in a Ruger SRH, so I don't "wannabe" anything. The 44 Mag provides considerable scope in reloading, with a wide range of suitable bullet weights and styles easily available, both commercially and home casted. The Ruger can easily and accurately handle heavily loaded 300+ gn projectiles, and is a real pleasure to shoot even with heavy loads.
Now, about the 41 Magnum...is this the next "wannabe" cartridge for the unwashed "vast heards"? Now the BIG SECRET is out about variations in commercially loaded handgun ammunition, I expect the supply of 41 Magnum ammo and firearms will become a real problem. Just look how "Light Magnum" 308 ammo has hurt the sales of 30-06 ammo and rifles.
I'm joking, of course.
Albatross.

I am not sure about the 41 & 44 magnum comparisons since I have not gone there yet since that is not what this discussion was supposed to discuss. The originator of this was talking 45ACP vs 10mm. As far as that comparison goes and also to the 357Mag, Allan D hit the nail on the head. A fact NONE of you can prove otherwise, a semiauto in similarly trained hands will be faster than a revolver almost all of the time (on certain days there are exceptions from one shooter to the next, but these are rare). A 10mm in black bear country is enough and when it comes to a high stress, possibly multiple rds fired situation, you want enough to hit the CNS, a faster gun will give you more chances at a hit to the CNS than a slower heavy recoiling one. Like I have stated before I would choose the 40S&W over both if just perps were concerned, if you want one gun for perps and black bears, the 10mm is the best choice (expanding for perps, solids for bear). To exagerate this point, if you asked me if I wanted to use a 7x57 with solids on a charging elephant vs a 700Nitro, I would choose the 7x57 every time since it is enough to penetrate to the CNS and I would have the ability to fire more than the 700Nitro, in all practically, a .284 hole or two to the brain will stop the charge as well as a .700 hole to the brain (definately better than .700 hole next to the brain), missing the CNS by either is my demise (in case your wondering, been thousands of elephants killed by one famous hunter using a 7x57). For grizz country I would step up to my 44Mag (or more....) wheelgun since the 10mm may not penetrate enough (maybe it could, but I don't know) for those beasts, and I don't have the $ to purchase a 50AE built on a large semiauto frame and I cannot fathom carrying one of those extra large autos (I think they call them the Desert Eagle?????).

Deke.

I started this post to ask an opinion on which
caliber would be a better choice other than the
9mm and .40.
Also was to gain information on a cartridge that
has almost faded the limelight like so many others.
Out of 100 people I know, 60 have a 45acp.
the other 40 either have 9mm,.40,or anything from .357 down to .22. This was a question to
which caliber would be more for my taste,
regardless of load data,accuracy, or which gun they were fired from,I don't really give a crap about that. I have a fondness for both calibers
the 45 for its history,the 10mm for its maybe
being history.In my case either one wont do its
intended job,well my 480 will, its just a little hard to hide under a long sleeve shirt
when I'm trout fishing in the mountains,or just hiking off the beaten path. My question has been answered many times over for both calibers
but I have already located a 10mm and plan on using factory winchester 175gr in it. So thanks
for the help.

pepper,

Good choice. Keep in mind that the 175 silvertips are more of a fragmenting bullet in that loading which is great for perps, but maybe not for what you might encounter on the trout stream. DoubleTap loads a 180Gold Dot (in lighter weights as well) that might serve perps and beast better. Other than that there is Corbon and Buffalo Bore, which also load to full potential of the 10mm.

Deke.

Thanks Deke I have been looking at the
Doubletap stuff for both beast and perps,
but will look for the factory stuff to do
for practice and collecting brass for handloading.

My gun did not like the 180XTP's by DoubleTap (primer shavings filled firing pin hole causing failure to fire on successive rounds). The 180GD load chronies @ 1261fps in my 1006 and works well. I also came across a great sale on preprimed Hornady Brass ($13.88 per 100) at Natchez. I have purchased Magnus hardcast bullets for practice and Bear directly from Magnus, $127.50 for 2250-200grTCBB delivered anywhere in the lower 48.

Deke.

I cant order anything from Natchez they wont
sell to residents of certain areas like
the state of Tennesse,I thought about using
the Speer gd from doubletap and then
trying various handloads. I got to get the gun first.
Deciding on which Witness to get is my
problem right now.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
I tried shooting full power factory loaded 10mm on the little reactive target set-up we have at our range. I am way slower with the 10mm, it's hard for me to get back on target as fast as with a .45 or a .40 S&W. For me, as much as the extra power is nice, I just can't shoot it as well as other calibers after the first shot.

IN THE X RING!

If you KNOW you will be engaging hard targets like vehicles or large game the 10mm.

Personal defense carry the .45 or .40 for quicker tighter double taps.

I have a SS .45 and a 10mm/.40 combo; very sweet!

quote:

Through a car door while completely penetrating (actually shattering) a power window motor!
not only through a tire, but through a RIM, AND exiting through the tire TREAD afterwards.

Wow!

My friend has to put down deer hit by cars in our county and has had several 10mm round bounce right off a deer head (slight angle shot between the eyes) . He now prefers the shotgun with buckshot.

I find it had to believe a deer skull can be harder than a rim.

A .40 cal 180 gr. Gold Dot at 1250fps, if put in the right place, won't need a follow up shot.

And it won't bounce off a deer's skull.

For hunting it's simple, the 10mm is legal in many states where the 45 ACP is not. For self defense I'd prefer the 45 ACP because once sufficient penetration is assured then "wider is better". For the back country LEO who might need to shoot a felon or a bear on any given shift then a 10mm loaded to the original 200 @ 1200 might be better if he or she is willing to practice enough to manage it. If I was worried only about dangerous four-legged critters it's time for a revolver, 41 magnum or larger. $0.02

From 10mmtalk.com..Doubletap ammo results:
______________________
All of these tests were done using 10% ballistic gelatin provided by Vyse gelatin using all FBI protocols and 4 layers of denim and two layers of light cotton T-shirt in front of the gelatin.

DoubleTap 10mm
135gr JHP @ 1600fps - 11.0" / .70" frag nasty
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1475fps - 13.5" / .88"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 14.25" / 1.02"
165gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1425fps - 14.75" / .82"
180gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1330fps - 16.0" / .85"
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1300fps - 15.25" / .96"
200gr XTP @ 1250fps - 19.5" / .72"
230gr Equalizer @ 1040fps - 11.0" and 17.0" / .62" and .40"

DoubleTap .45ACP
185gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1225fps - 12.75" / .82"
200gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.25" / .88"
230gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1010fps - 15.25" / .95"


FWIW.