I was perusing the classifieds and read through Mr. Pappas ad for a nice double rifle.

In the ad he mentions, and I quote "
A small amount of cordite burn just ahead of the throats--no effect on accuracy".

If the throats are shot out or badly corroded on a double, what is the remedy? Can you go ahead and lengthen them to clean them up? How much does that mess up the regulation?

Is the only other recourse new tubes?

Just curious as I have not seen this and it could make or break a classic and expensive rifle.

Thanks for the insight.

Jeremy

I do not believe, in my experience, that you can really "clean up" cordite burn or any form of frosting. Burn and frosting affect the surface of the lands and grooves. Pitting affects the integrity of the surface as it corrodes below the surface.

I had a Rigby .450 NE that had somewhat moderate burn and frosting the entire length of the barrels and that rifle produced exceptional accuracy.

I have had a rifle with a severely pitted barrel that failed to produce good accuracy because of gas blow-by but then we are comparing apples to oranges with frosted or "burning". Just my experience and your mileage may vary.

Dutch

There is no cure; but a "burned" throat does not mean the DR won't shoot. Depends on how bad it is.

farbedo:
Allow me to explain:
Bore condition is paramount when purchasing a double (or any rifle for that matter) as a rifled bore is what it is and can't be cleaned up. Anything else can be repaired, re blacked, re finished, etc. A shotgun can be honed as it a smooth bore.

Cordite burn will look like sand blasting or bead blasting. It will not have an effect on accuracy as the rifling is still strong. Use of jacketed bullets is a must as lead bullets will lead a frosted bore horribly. Paper patching is an excellent remedy if one wants to use lead bullets.

As long as the rifling is strong and not worn, and the cordite burn has not burned away the rifling lands or made the grooves too deep, accuracy should be fine.

The first double that I fell in love with more than any woman was a .450 no2 with frosted bores. She shoots very well--2 inches at 50 yards all day long, and I have killed buffalo and grizzly with it.

Ideally, a bright and shiny bore is best. Pits come from rust due perhaps to corrosive black powder are there to stay and a few will not effect accuracy. The cordite burn, also called frosting, is fine as long as it is not too extensive.

I hope this helps. If not, ask away or PM me.
Cheers,
Cal

Kind of like a beautiful girl with acne.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Kind of like a beautiful girl with acne .

Still fully functional!!

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Kind of like a beautiful girl with acne .

Still fully functional!!

Yes, but not quite as pretty.
Cal

External beauty is all that counts; internally they are all pure evil. I am talking about women.

Thank everyone.

I have no experience with rifles that saw cordite. The only barrels that I have seen that were shot out are on modern high powered rifles. From what I have been told, cordite is a different animal and burns much hotter than anything available today. Tough on throats, and barrels.

Does this condition diminish the price much, or is it kind of expected? Turn of the century arms would be hard to find without some erosion, I would imagine.

I'll not touch the conversation on women.

Jeremy

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
Thank everyone.

I have no experience with rifles that saw cordite. The only barrels that I have seen that were shot out are on modern high powered rifles. From what I have been told, cordite is a different animal and burns much hotter than anything available today. Tough on throats, and barrels.

Does this condition diminish the price much, or is it kind of expected? Turn of the century arms would be hard to find without some erosion, I would imagine.

I'll not touch the conversation on women.

Jeremy

In gun room discussions a frosted bore will be called out by the potential buyer to help lower the price. It is minimized by the seller as not changing accuracy. For me, when I buy a double I know if the frosting is too severe. If not and I want the rifle, I will buy it as all of my rifles are shooters and not just safe queens.

I will be selling a few black powder express rifles soon. Some have frosted bores and some the bores are near perfect/mint. I guess it all depends how much the rifles were shot and if the shooter in the days of old cleaned his guns. Also, many black powder express rifles were shot with light nitro charges and are subject to cordite burn.

Cordite burn (frosting) is a bit different in both looks and area than black powder corrosion. Cordite burn begins at the throat and generally lessens as it moves up the bores. Black powder issues are generally even throughout the bore. At least this has been noticed by me in my limited experience.

However, I have lots of experience with less than desirable women. Character flaw, I guess.

Cheers,
Cal