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HELP - Who re-regulated my Sabatti 500 NE ? Hello all, I just bought a very nice Sabatti 92 Safari Deluxe in 500 NE caliber from Cabelas at a very reasonable price. It was advertised as having been re-regulated, but there was no test target or any indication of "who" did the work, or what ammo was used. It appears that whoever did the re-regulating also tuned the triggers, (smooth 5-1/2 and 6-1/2 lbs) and also upgraded to a NECG recoil pad. The wedge has been left protruding, so this may be a clue as to who did this. I know that JJ does this on occasion, having done so on one of my other doubles that he regulated for me. I've talked with Ken Owen, and its not his work. He told me he always has the wedge flush. Not sure who else does Sabatti re-regulation. I've been told not too many gunsmiths will re-regulate them because the barrels lack a wedge and are hard soldered. Anyone have any suggestions? I'd like to find out what ammo its regulated for, before going through a lot of trial and error shooting.      " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | ||
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I can't answer your question but they are definitely NOT hard soldered. They are soft soldered. You probably should ask the guy you bought it from. | |||
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Very nice looking rifle. Please post your field test results when done. NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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Have you shot it? My experience is that a properly regulated DR will not be that picky about ammo at the ranges normally associated with a big bore stopper like the 500NE. Shoot it at 25 yards with whatever ammo you have and see where it prints. If it's been properly regulated, or "re-regulated", that'll give you a starting point and some hints to make a few tweaks for getting it dialed in. Much more important than "who" re-regulated it, IMO anyway. YMMV. | |||
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No they are not! I was told they are "Hard" soldered by the man that has regulated dozens of them. I don't know who had the work done - it was bought from Cabelas. " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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Hello Todd Williams, Thanks for your reply. I don't have any Factory ammo as of yet. That's why I doing some discovery "before" I buy the ammo. I might try some handloads at Factory velocities later today. I'll let you know what I find. " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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ive got factory 500NE ammo, but no gun.. pm me, i'll make you a deal... go big or go home ........ DSC-- Life Member NRA--Life member DRSS--9.3x74 r Chapuis | |||
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I was gonna say, more likely than not, it would be regulated with Hornady which is the most available factory ammo. I think I would try that first and if it is way off, pull the bullets and load down as you won't be loading up from the Hornady factory ballistics IMO. | |||
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Let me put it this way; the three I own and have owned are soft soldered, meaning melting at 500-800 degrees. . Definitely not hard soldered, meaning, silver brazed and melting at well over 1000 degrees. And I know the difference. Not sure what your man ran into. If you load a 570 grainer to about 2000 fps, more or less, that will be a good place to start. And Hornady ammo is more or less the standard. | |||
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Hello Huvius, Thanks for the reply. I loaded up some 570 Hornady DGS with IMR 3031, but only got 1720 fps. Group was not too impressive. I'm going out tomorrow with "more powder" to see what happens if I get closer to 2000 fps. " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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Hello jimatcat, Thanks for the reply. I sent you a PM. " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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Do a search for .500 NE loads. RL15 or H4831 are much better choices for the .500 NE than IMR3031. Mike | |||
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I didn't do this one. Concerning the ribs, I have seen them both silver soldered and soft soldered. Depends on when it was made. http://www.facebook.com/profil...p?id=100001646464847 A.M. Little Bespoke Gunmakers LLC 682-554-0044 Michael08TDK@yahoo.com | |||
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Yes, you will need the muzzle flip and jump caused by the slower powders; it ain't just the velocity that makes for regulation on double rifles. | |||
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Exactly. More important than ultimate velocity, it's the acceleration rate to that velocity that's important. A timing issue of getting the bullet to leave the muzzle at the right point in the recoil arc. I've used this analogy before but think of two cars in a drag race. They may both cross the finish line at the exact same speed, but one reaches the line before the other. | |||
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Hello Todd Williams, Thanks for the reply. Yes, I understand. So far my shooting shows already "crossed" at 50 yds by about 5 inches. I'm thinking faster powder would give the barrels "less" time to twist left and right during recoil. But, who knows. I've found with double rifles, there are no stead and fast rules. " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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You are experiencing exactly what I said; your load of fast powder doesn't have enough flip/jump to get the bullets to come apart; you do not want less barrel time; you want more, which a slower powder will do for you, while causing the barrels to move out to the left and right, thereby flinging the bullets outward, which will cause your bullets to come together. The slower powders contribute to more recoil too. Those are the rules. Mostly. That is what DR regulation is all about. And I have regulated several of them. | |||
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If you're crossing, and especially if crossing with below design velocity, you need a SLOWER powder, not faster. Faster powders will make the issue worse. You need to slow the bullet's time in the barrel down. Remember Buckstix, if you put your DR into a gun vise, action opened, then shined a laser down the two barrels, the left would be low and right while the right would be low and left of center. In other words, low and crossed. The left barrel is left of the center of balance so when it fires, the barrel is going to move up and to the left. The right will move up and right. This creates the "recoil arc". So if your bullet exits the left barrel before the rifle has a chance to arch up and left, it will hit too far to the right. Vice Versa for the right barrel. Slowing the bullet's acceleration rate down will cause them to spread. Speeding them up will cause them to converge. Slower powders slow the acceleration rate while faster powders increase the acceleration rate. In my two 500NE DRs, RL-15 is the magic propellant. You'll notice reduced felt recoil at the design velocity than you will with faster powders. Check out the Barnes reloading manual. No'4 I think it is, but you can look it up on their website. The max load listed has proven to be a bit light in my rifles and according to other guy's data as well. BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, RL-15 varies greatly from lot to lot so start below that max obviously and work up. If you hit the max load and are below design velocity, there is other data out there that can guide you safely. That said, you may have trouble locating RL-15 if you don't already have some. For awhile, it was just this side of unobtainium. Not sure what the market has available currently as I bought a huge batch about 2 years ago. | |||
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Hello Tod Wiliams, Thanks for the reply. Thanks for the detail explaination. And yes, I've got RL15 ... I will put together a load tomorrow and test it. I'll let you know what I find out. Although I bought this DR from Cabelas here in Wisconsin, I had it shipped in from Colorado. Today I put in a call to Cabelas in CO to see if they had any info from the previous owner about who re-regulated this rifle, and with what ammo. They returned my call and indicated the ammo used was Hornady DGX and DGS Factory. But they had no info as to who did the work. I was told that Hornady 500 NE Factory ammo is loaded with a very slow burning powder. " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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Is it possible the rifle was "re-regulated" by the Sabatti importer for Cabela's? Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | |||
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You might have to go to a still slower powder in the 4831 range to get the right amount of recoil and muzzle flip and jump you need to regulate this. RL15 is not a very slow powder. I don't think the importer has the skills to do much of anything from what I have heard about them. | |||
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I called to buy that one a couple days ago. You beat me to it. Glad to see it went to a member. -Brandon | |||
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dpcd, Seems like I read something about how that Sabatti importer (USSG?) "fixed" some of the rifles that had the Dremel treatment by cutting off the ends of the barrels so as to remove the part of rifling that had been ground off. I know I read somewhere (can't recall) that a Sabatti buyer had measured the barrels after getting the rifle back and they were shorter than the originals by a half-inch. Obviously, that is not re-regulation. Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | |||
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Hello PSmith, Thanks for the reply, I don't think Sabatti per say did re-regulation. When I spoke with Ken Owen he indicated that he has done bunches for Sabatti owners, and Cabelas.
Hello brandoninaz, Thanks for the reply. I'm glad I beat you to it. Its really nice. It looks "test-fired" only in near new condition. The tuned trigger job, and custom recoil pad were nice additions. However, this one "bites". I have all to do to keep control and not flinch in anticipation of the forthcoming pain when it "kisses" my cheek bone. I'd much rather shoot my 600 NE.
Hello dpcd, Thanks for the reply. I might be getting close. My velocity with RL-15 was around 1800 fps with the 570 DGS Hornadys. But, it seems that this one likes "total free recoil". I've been testing at 50 yards from my padded "standing" bench, with less than favorable results. However, before leaving today, I started with a cold gun and fired 4 shots at 25 yds in 4 second intervals - "totally standing" with no support of any kind. The 4-shot group measured 2-1/2" " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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PS, yeah, I saw that too; like I said, I don't trust USSG for anything; they seem to know nothing about double rifles. Buck; keep at it; it will all come together (the bullets too) soon. They are all different and the hold is very important. That is why some guys give up on them; they are holding them "wrong". Fortunately my Sabatti .500 NE shoots within 1.5 inches (bullets hit at 10 and 4, at 50 yards. I do use RL15 with a foam filler. | |||
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I'd be interested to know what load of RL-15 you're shooting and what velocity you're getting. I get 2,125fps with mine but there is ZERO room for a filler. I don't think a full house load with RL-15 should require any filler at all in a 500NE case. | |||
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Depending on the RL15 lot, the load I use generally works out to be between 96 and 99 grains and I always use a filler. Mike | |||
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I don't have my book with me right now; actually I am in Texas; but there is room for a 3/8ths foam rod. I am thinking it is 95; the 500 case will hold more than that; | |||
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Maybe the difference is you guys are not shooting monometals? I'm shooting either Northfork, CEB, or Barnes. Perhaps longer than the lead cored bullets and therefore taking up the extra space? I don't have my data in front of me at the moment either but I think my load is 97grs of RL-15 which with the 570gr monos, leaves zero room for a filler, but not compressed either. | |||
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Sure, solid brass bullets are longer than lead cored ones. That explains it. | |||
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Hello all, Here's a fun load I found today. I'm still experimenting.  " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles HELP - Who re-regulated my Sabatti 500 NE ?
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