While I neither agree nor disagree with anything said here I fail to understand how or why a double is quicker to the shoulder than a boltgun of comparable fit and weight. Of course I'm rather dense so I apologize in advance.

When you are about to get stepped on, they are all quick to the shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by fivebigbores:
JPK who did you hunt with on the save

Fivebigbores,

I've hunted twice in the Save with Roger Whittall Safaris, PH both times was Rich Tabor.

500 Grains has hunted for elephants with Roger Whittall Safaris in the Save more than once as well, his PH was Peter Wood.

I'm pretty sure that 450NE No2 has hunted elephants on the Save, but can't recall with whom.

The elephants there are phsycho and the cover is thick.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
While I neither agree nor disagree with anything said here I fail to understand how or why a double is quicker to the shoulder than a boltgun of comparable fit and weight. Of course I'm rather dense so I apologize in advance.

I suppose the double advocates would say that doubles are balanced better and are therefore easier to align quickly (bring to the shoulder). I don't see that there would be any difference in the amount of time it takes to get the rifle to the shoulder, but I think the difference is probably in the amount of time it takes to actually bring the gun to a point of aim.

Bolt advocates would say that this is always easier with a scope or reticle. Personally, I don't see much difference in the time it takes to get the gun to the shoulder, but I do feel more comfortable with a double because I grew up bird hunting so frequently with double barreled shotguns. IMO a gun that fits you the best will always come to aim faster regardless of whether it is a bolt gun or double rifle.

I love a good double rifle, but its mostly nostalgia and i am nostalgic, but I don't kid myself into believing all this horse hockey, a bolt gun is just as good as a double even in the short rows..

Oh Gawd, now I've done it!! , oh well on it!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I love a good double rifle, but its mostly nostalgia and i am nostalgic, but I don't kid myself into believing all this horse hockey, a bolt gun is just as good as a double even in the short rows..

Oh Gawd, now I've done it!! , oh well on it!

Ray!

I think you have fallen off your horse on to your head once too often.

When that pissy elephant cow charges you in the thick stuff you have to wait until it is within 10 yards to claim self defense according to Zim Parks. You can then get two well aimed shots off with a double if you are good with it but not with a bolt gun.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

With scopes it is the same.

Within practical heavy rifle range there is no discernible difference between a properly regulated heavy double and a heavy bolt gun of equal power.

The myth that bolt guns are inherently more accurate than doubles is yet another old wives tale that should be dismissed right here and right now.

Surestrike, I am not sure I agree with you.

With iron sights from a standing position, I would bet that most doubles will shoot as well as most bolt guns. That is more a function of the shooters ability than the gun. However, with a scope from the bench, I think a bolt gun is the more accurate. It's just easier to get a better group from one barrel than from two. I would have to say that of the two, the bolt gun is the more "inherently" accurate but would agree with you that for most practical hunting purposes, the accuracy of a double is more than sufficient.

Dave

Dave,

I've had two .470's that will shoot into 2" consistently at 100 yards. They will shoot that group about 2 to 3" apart from each other barrel to barrel.

So each barrel is shooting a two inch group or in some cases better than that at 100 yards with iron sights from the bench.


I've owned plenty of heavy caliber bolt guns that wouldn't do that good. I've owned some that will do better. But now we are talking about inconsequential increments. As you mentioned that is all more than adequate for hunting.

The second thing I'd like to clear up is a misquote or at least a major misunderstanding of my following statement,

"There is no bolt action ever built that comes into action as fast or as smoothly as properly a fit double gun. There is simply no comparison between a bolt and a double in this department. When I've been spending a lot of time in the field with a double and then switch back to a bolt the slowness and clumsiness of a bolt becomes blatantly apparent. They simply do not handle anywhere near as nicely as double."

Nowhere in the above did I say that a double is quicker to "shoulder" I said that it comes into action quicker meaning shouldered, aimed and safety pushed to the fire position.

A good double which is fit to you should point like a shotgun I.E. when it comes up to your shoulder it is automatically pointed at what you want to shot. That is what gun fit and balance is all about.

The tang safety slides off as the gun is coming to the shoulder without having to adjust your grip. Which is a major factor in the speed at which the rifle can be brought into action.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
While I neither agree nor disagree with anything said here I fail to understand how or why a double is quicker to the shoulder than a boltgun of comparable fit and weight. Of course I'm rather dense so I apologize in advance.

...and you hunt quail with a bolt action Mossberg, I'm sure.
----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Dave,

The second thing I'd like to clear up is a misquote or at least a major misunderstanding of my following statement,

"There is no bolt action ever built that comes into action as fast or as smoothly as properly a fit double gun. There is simply no comparison between a bolt and a double in this department. When I've been spending a lot of time in the field with a double and then switch back to a bolt the slowness and clumsiness of a bolt becomes blatantly apparent. They simply do not handle anywhere near as nicely as double."

Nowhere in the above did I say that a double is quicker to "shoulder" I said that it comes into action quicker meaning shouldered, aimed and safety pushed to the fire position.

A good double which is fit to you should point like a shotgun I.E. when it comes up to your shoulder it is automatically pointed at what you want to shot. That is what gun fit and balance is all about.

The tang safety slides off as the gun is coming to the shoulder without having to adjust your grip. Which is a major factor in the speed at which the rifle can be brought into action.

This is well put and in accordance with my own experience.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
While I neither agree nor disagree with anything said here I fail to understand how or why a double is quicker to the shoulder than a boltgun of comparable fit and weight. Of course I'm rather dense so I apologize in advance.

...and you hunt quail with a bolt action Mossberg, I'm sure.
----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

And this is funny as hell and 100% illustrative!

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

A good double which is fit to you should point like a shotgun I.E. when it comes up to your shoulder it is automatically pointed at what you want to shot. That is what gun fit and balance is all about.

So should a good bolt gun that is fit to the individual shooter. In addition, most doubles are far heavier than bolt guns in comparable calibers.

I have often heard it repeated that a good double will shoot like a fine shotgun. The problem with that analogy is that most fine shotguns are much, much lighter than their double rifle counterparts. It's hard to make the argument that a ten or twelve pound double rifle will point like a bird gun of say, seven and a half pounds. That's not to say that the double rifle is not well balanced. It just can't point and swing like the much lighter shotgun.

Doubles are great hunting tools. Extremely reliable and brought into play very rapidly when there is a close encounter. I have also seen some very well made bolt guns as well. Each has their place.

Dave

465,
Oh my Gawd!!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

A good double which is fit to you should point like a shotgun I.E. when it comes up to your shoulder it is automatically pointed at what you want to shot. That is what gun fit and balance is all about.

So should a good bolt gun that is fit to the individual shooter. In addition, most doubles are far heavier than bolt guns in comparable calibers.

I have often heard it repeated that a good double will shoot like a fine shotgun. The problem with that analogy is that most fine shotguns are much, much lighter than their double rifle counterparts. It's hard to make the argument that a ten or twelve pound double rifle will point like a bird gun of say, seven and a half pounds. That's not to say that the double rifle is not well balanced. It just can't point and swing like the much lighter shotgun.

Doubles are great hunting tools. Extremely reliable and brought into play very rapidly when there is a close encounter. I have also seen some very well made bolt guns as well. Each has their place.

Dave

Dave,

First, there is just no getting over the safety issue, the tang safety is slicker and faster than the wing or the flag.

Second a well made or at least a well balanced double rifle feels a lot lighter than it might weigh. But I'm no fan of heavy weights either. FWIW, my 10ga goose gun weighs the same and balances the same as my prefered double rifle. I wouldn't want to hunt quail with a 20ga that weighed or balance like either. I'd rather hunt with a quail gun that handled like either than a bolt shotgun!

I don't find well balanced weight too much an issue for shooting, only for humping. Take international skeet or trap, no light weight shotguns here! No humping cross country either.

JPK

Oh my God. A tang safety only blocks the triggers. Just like the CZ 550's. But guys are falling all over themselves to convert any and all bolt guns to the 3-position Mod. 70 type safety.

Go figure!

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

First, there is just no getting over the safety issue, the tang safety is slicker and faster than the wing or the flag.

JPK

I agree!

Remember the tang safety that Ruger used to put on their bolt rifles? They were the best!

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Oh my God. A tang safety only blocks the triggers. Just like the CZ 550's. But guys are falling all over themselves to convert any and all bolt guns to the 3-position Mod. 70 type safety.

Go figure!

Will,

Safety issue = I was writing of speed and ease and lack of extra motion.

But with a double rifle (or shotgun) equiped with intercepting sears, the hammer can't fall home unless the appropriate trigger is pulled.

JPK

From a "Brit" perspective. If bolt action guns were better and quicker than double guns over a prolonged series of shots then we would have been shooting bolt action magazine fed shot guns here in Britain since the 1890s.

A Purdey "Marlin Goose Gun" no less! The British Edwardians - Churchill for example - were very keen to try the new technology to see if it gave any advantages. Churchill and his Mauser C96 for example. If it worked they adopted it. If it didn't they stuck with what did.

The fact is that most people don't know how to properly quickly reload a double gun and that if shot for one shot more than the capacity of the "rival" bolt gun the double gun will be quicker.

Yes over four shots a 375 H & H Remington 700 is probably quicker than a similarly chambered double gun. But over six shots the double gun will be quicker.

The great advantage enjoyed by the bolt is the very real one that it does not have to be taken down from the shoulder until it has been run empty.

Both have their uses both have their "optimum" or "best" scenario.

Would I personally choose a double rifle? No. It's not a choice I would make as I prefer the lighter weight of a bolt gun. If I were shooting dangerous game I would still choose a bolt gun but have confidence in my PH that he had a double!

400 Nitro,
I usually hunt quail with a 30" Beretta 12ga ASE with double triggers and solid rib or a Browning Citori Lightening 28ga Grade VI with a single trigger. I might say I'm quite successful about it also but have no idea what that has to do with anything that is being discussed here. I do know what a double rifle is having owned several of them over the years and have used them on game. They are NOT my favorite rifle form and I don't believe they have any mystical powers just rather narrow opinioned advocates.

All bespoke or "custom" double rifles from the great makers in the UK were fitted to the customer. Usually with a little more bend and a little less pull than the same customer's shot gun.

But so too were the great bolt guns from Holland. And still are.

In the British Army...unlike the US Army...even an individual soldiers bolt action Lee Enfield rilfe was fitted to him! Three, later four, different butt lengths. Short, Normal, Long and Bantam (Very Short).

Indeed I was also fitted for my No4. You took up a rifle took the aim and the Sergeant then would smartly open the bolt and bring it back to your face. This to show that with the correct butt length you could, and were trained to, load in the aim and in the shoulder.

The advantage of the Paris Lee's rifle being its famous 60 degree throw to Paul Mauser's inferior 90 degree throw.

Enfieldspares,
I know the 'Brits' are experts at everything firearm but I would venture to wager even they could not design a boltgun to rapidly and smoothly feed ammunition the shape of a shotgun shell. Your vaunted double gun can easily be put to shame quickly in rapid accurate shots by a Model 12 Winchester Pump. That's not even to mention autoloaders. The double gun of today is just an outgrowth of the muzzleloader adapted to self contained ammunition. I never saw a bolt action muzzleloader either.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
400 Nitro,
I usually hunt quail with a 30" Beretta 12ga ASE with double triggers and solid rib or a Browning Citori Lightening 28ga Grade VI with a single trigger. I might say I'm quite successful about it also but have no idea what that has to do with anything that is being discussed here. I do know what a double rifle is having owned several of them over the years and have used them on game. They are NOT my favorite rifle form and I don't believe they have any mystical powers just rather narrow opinioned advocates.

Good for you. Give 'em hell.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
I do know what a double rifle is having owned several of them over the years and have used them on game. They are NOT my favorite rifle form and I don't believe they have any mystical powers just rather narrow opinioned advocates.

So? There's lots of people who spend time around lots of things without ever learning anything about them. As you said yourself, you're pretty dense, so your case doesn't surprise me in the least.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Good for you. Give 'em hell.

Will, you are more than welcome to not shoot a double rifle. Simply because you freely, possibly unknowingly, but freely admit that you are either unable or unwilling to properly train to operate them does not in the least detract from the pluses of a good double rifle in the hands of a riflemen who knows how to use one.

My .470 weighs just at 10 lbs how much does your heavy caliber bolt gun weigh Dave?

I own two .458Lotts both bolt guns. One .404 Jeff also a bolt and two .375's both M-70's and one double, a .470. I am ALSO very familiar with both platforms. AS I actually hunt with, shoot with, and train with them all. Doubles do NOT have any mystical powers. They do however have a very nice feel and are fun and effective tools in the field if you are willing to put in the time and effort to learn to use them.

They are not the clumsy inaccurate clubs that many jealous little boys who can't afford or are unwilling to put in the time to learn to use one try to make them into.

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
I do know what a double rifle is having owned several of them over the years and have used them on game. They are NOT my favorite rifle form and I don't believe they have any mystical powers just rather narrow opinioned advocates.

So? There's lots of people who spend time around lots of things without ever learning anything about them. As you said yourself, you're pretty dense, so your case doesn't surprise me in the least.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

You start making personal insults when you can't justify your ramblings. You and Surestrike should vacation together.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Good for you. Give 'em hell.

Will, you are more than welcome to not shoot a double rifle. Simply because you freely, possibly unknowingly, but freely admit that you are either unable or unwilling to properly train to operate them does not in the least detract from the pluses of a good double rifle in the hands of a riflemen who knows how to use one.

My .470 weighs just at 10 lbs how much does your heavy caliber bolt gun weigh Dave?

I own two .458Lotts both bolt guns. One .404 Jeff also a bolt and two .375's both M-70's and one double, a .470. I am ALSO very familiar with both platforms. AS I actually hunt with, shoot with, and train with them all. Doubles do NOT have any mystical powers. They do however have a very nice feel and are fun and effective tools in the field if you are willing to put in the time and effort to learn to use them.

They are not the clumsy inaccurate clubs that many jealous little boys who can't afford or are unwilling to put in the time to learn to use one try to make them into.

See the above post.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by surestrike:

My .470 weighs just at 10 lbs how much does your heavy caliber bolt gun weigh Dave?

QUOTE]

Surestrike:

You've got me here. My Ruger Safari Magnum .375 is in the ten pound range. My CZ .404 is even heavier. However, my CZ .416 Rigby and .500 Jeffery are both under ten pounds. To the extent they are on the heavy side (which I think the .375 and .404 are), I think it is becasue they are "of the rack" guns. Remember, you guys are paying thousands of dollars more for your doubles. I would bet if I had Empire Rifles build me up a "proper" big bore, I could have it built up considerably lighter. I guess the point I was trying to make is that because doubles have TWO barrels,they tend to run heavier than bolt guns.

I did not mean to offend you in any way by my comments. I think doubles are waaaaaayyyyyy cool. There is nothing that speaks of Africa like a fine double rifle. However, I have always seen a double as a compliment to a bolt gun. Somewhere in John Taylor's AFRICAN RIFLES AND CARTRIDGES he quotes Major Cotten Powell I think who says that if he were returning to Africa he would take a 9.3X62 Mauser and a heavy double like a .470. I agree and think that is probably the ideal battery. A good bolt gun and a heavy double should a follow up become necessary. However, while I can afford a double, I just have never gone down thar road. I haven't owned a gun with two triggers for many, many years so I tend to shy away from doubles but that's not to say that there is not a nice lightweight 9.3X74R somewhere in my future.

Dave

Dave,

My two main hunting rifles in Africa are a scoped .375H&H and a .470NE double. I agree with your premise.

The title of this thread concerns accuracy. I have answered that question in regards to my experience with doubles.

We've also seen all of the other common misconceptions that people have about doubles here. Weight is one of them. I properly done double rifle will weigh about as much as a good bolt gun of comparable power.

The double rifle should be as accurate as a bolt gun barrel to barrel. Regulation can be a problem in some rifles.

Expense is obviously an issue.

It boils down to a personal choice. If you don't like doubles don't use them it's that simple. If you do then by all means shoot them hunt with them and enjoy them. They are as capable as any other rifle and I find them fun to hunt with.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Before I retired, as part of my job I was required to "qualify" with a 458 Win Mag Bolt Rifle.

The course of fire was determined by the State Standards, for Law Enforcement use of a Rifle.

We fired:
5 rounds standing at 50 yards, iron sights.
5 rounds kneeling at 75 yards, iron sights.
5 rounds sitting at 75 yards, scope.
5 rounds sitting, 458, [or prone for the 375 H&H shooters], scoped at 100 yards.

No artificial support, benches, etc.
..................

A SxS with DTs has three obvious advantages: it's two ss rifles in one, instant selection of two different load types, and speed of second shot.

The 1908 M-S carbine I used to own would outhandle most I have shouldered.

Will,

Once again your personality has gotten you nowhere. If you could pull your head out of the sand for a brief second you'd see that the personal insults started with Mr. Zimbabwe's narrow minded opinion crack.

My question to you Will is what is your agenda? What are you trying to prove with all of this anti double gun slough that you are constantly tossing around? Do you actually believe that it has any substance or do you just get some kind of perverse excitement from all of this?

Please for the record state your case. That way we don't have to suffer through your constant little cheap shots from the dark. Be a man tell us what you really think.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Dave,

My two main hunting rifles in Africa are a scoped .375H&H and a .470NE double. I agree with your premise.

Now, if I could just get you to dump that .375 in favor of a nice, lightweight Blaser R93 in 9,3X62 you would would be on the right track

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
You start making personal insults when you can't justify your ramblings.

That means a lot to me coming from you, William, since you rarely miss a chance to hurl them yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
While I neither agree nor disagree with anything said here I fail to understand how or why a double is quicker to the shoulder than a boltgun of comparable fit and weight. Of course I'm rather dense so I apologize in advance.

Again, he said himself that he's rather dense. Of course, that was meant to imply that anyone that disagreed with him was dense and obviously wrong - that's his usual approach. I simply responded in kind.
-----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Each year we all go into the field with our individual choice of weppons.
Our success hinges on many more important factors than our choice of firearms.

The effectiveness of your rifle can't really be compared to someone else's and what there perameters for performance are One may be more accurate one may have a greater rate of firepower, some lighter some heavier etc.

If you like a double or a bolt action is your idea of high performance hunting rifle then wich ever format you choose and dedicate yourself to then that is what your going to be the most effective with.

More importantly after spending the time studding the weppon and falling in love with that thing of beauty and Spending the time on the range deveoping the best load you can for it you will find that the enjoyment you recive from using your rifle will be by far best determaning factor for you to come to your own conclution wich is best for you.

Perhaps we can get away from the petty personal attacks, responses and counter responses for awhile and get back to the original question of this thread.

I have not noticed any difference in my ability to place bullets from either a double or a bolt rifle in field situations. I have used both interchangeably on elephant and buffalo. I have killed buff out to 125 yards with both and elephant to around 90 yards with the double. All bullets I have fired have gone where intended although on two shots the animal was no longer there when the bullet arrived.

I used two bolt rifles a 375 H&H built by Al Biesen and a 458 Lott built by his son Roger. Both were custom fitted to me. The doubles also fit perfectly and I can see no difference in the speed in which I am able to get them into action. There maybe some in theory but not in their practical application. I am comfortable with either a well fitted bolt or double when going into the Jesse after pissy cow herds. Something I have done a lot of.

Use the action type that fits and handles best for you.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Dave,

My two main hunting rifles in Africa are a scoped .375H&H and a .470NE double. I agree with your premise.

Now, if I could just get you to dump that .375 in favor of a nice, lightweight Blaser R93 in 9,3X62 you would would be on the right track

I'm with Surestrike here, though my double is the odd duck 458wm.

And just for kicks and giggles, I bought a really nice 375H&H double. But I think the double rifle serves best for heavy dangerous game and the medium bolt for all others.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Perhaps we can get away from the petty personal attacks, responses and counter responses for awhile and get back to the original question of this thread.

I have not noticed any difference in my ability to place bullets from either a double or a bolt rifle in field situations. I have used both interchangeably on elephant and buffalo. I have killed buff out to 125 yards with both and elephant to around 90 yards with the double. All bullets I have fired have gone where intended although on two shots the animal was no longer there when the bullet arrived.

I used two bolt rifles a 375 H&H built by Al Biesen and a 458 Lott built by his son Roger. Both were custom fitted to me. The doubles also fit perfectly and I can see no difference in the speed in which I am able to get them into action. There maybe some in theory but not in their practical application. I am comfortable with either a well fitted bolt or double when going into the Jesse after pissy cow herds. Something I have done a lot of.

Use the action type that fits and handles best for you.

465H&H

On accuracy, I find no difference in the field out to where I am comfortable with open sights, that is maybe ~125yds.

I don't agree with the bolt being the equal of the double rifle in getting into action, but that is my experience and I have a lot more experience with getting double rifles and shotguns especially into action quickly than a bolt rifle, so the difference may well lie entirely with me and my experience with SxS guns of one type or another.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Dave,

My two main hunting rifles in Africa are a scoped .375H&H and a .470NE double. I agree with your premise.

Now, if I could just get you to dump that .375 in favor of a nice, lightweight Blaser R93 in 9,3X62 you would would be on the right track

I'm with Surestrike here, though my double is the odd duck 458wm.

And just for kicks and giggles, I bought a really nice 375H&H double. But I think the double rifle serves best for heavy dangerous game and the medium bolt for all others.

JPK

JPK:

I would be interested to know whether your .375 double is chambered for the belted or flanged .375? If it is the belted .375, have you had any problems with ejection/extraction with either your .458 or .375? What kind of guns are they?

Dave

One more round over the capacity of the Model 12 and a good self-opening or well made double gun will be quicker. I promise you.

Try it against a "flush" of clays.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Dave,

My two main hunting rifles in Africa are a scoped .375H&H and a .470NE double. I agree with your premise.

Now, if I could just get you to dump that .375 in favor of a nice, lightweight Blaser R93 in 9,3X62 you would would be on the right track

Dave,

I've owned an R-93 in the past. It may well be the fastest smoothest firing hunting weapon on the planet. I had to sell mine to fund a .404 Jeff but I wasn't disappointed with it's accuracy or it's functionality that's for sure.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Dave,

My two main hunting rifles in Africa are a scoped .375H&H and a .470NE double. I agree with your premise.

Now, if I could just get you to dump that .375 in favor of a nice, lightweight Blaser R93 in 9,3X62 you would would be on the right track

I'm with Surestrike here, though my double is the odd duck 458wm.

And just for kicks and giggles, I bought a really nice 375H&H double. But I think the double rifle serves best for heavy dangerous game and the medium bolt for all others.

JPK

JPK:

I would be interested to know whether your .375 double is chambered for the belted or flanged .375? If it is the belted .375, have you had any problems with ejection/extraction with either your .458 or .375? What kind of guns are they?

Dave

Dave,

My primary DG rifle is a double in 458wm. I have lots of rounds, ~800, without ANY issues. I bought the 375H&H rimless belted, because of this and a short try with the 375H&H rimless belted rounds in my new rifle.

While I have few rounds through the 375H&H rimless belted, there have been no issues except that the extra high velocity Federal loads tend to lead to sticky opening because of primer extrusion into the striker holes. They don't fair well in my 375H&H bolt either.

JPK