As a 30 year Navy veteran, I must admit that trusting anything French, especially a double rifle, does not come naturally to me. However, after reading all of the positive reports about Chapuis rifles on AR and after some gentle encouragement from Ken Buch of Kebco LLC, I have come to realize that my prejudice may not be well founded. So, below is my first Chapuis double, an RGEX in 9.3x74R that I am purchasing from Ken. All of my other doubles are made by Butch Searcy, so this is quite a plunge for me. I hope Butch does not feel I am cheating on him!
At any rate, I need some help from you all on loads for my Chapuis. I prefer Woodleigh softs and solids as well as Barnes X triple shock bullets. So,if any of you Chapuis lovers out there would be willing to share some load data that works in your 9.3x74R double, I would be most grateful!
Mangwana


http://i1185.photobucket.com/a...a/DSC_0011.jpg[/IMG]

Another photo of my Chapuis - it did not go through the first time.
Mangwana

A beauty!

Lovely piece of wood there! But the checkering looks like it could use a coat of sealer....thinned Tru-oil, perhaps, and excess wiped off quickly.

Sub, no worries on my part. I'm still building your 60th birthday present.
I was talking to Ken Bush yesterday and one of the things I told him was that Chapuis, Merkle, K guns, VC, Heym are all good rifles, but we need to remember they are man made and shit happens. No one knows that better than me.
Nice rifle Sub.

Butch - you are, and always have been a class act - thanks. I feel like I have gone to confession and been absolved of my sins!
(You have to admit though- those Frenchies are pretty!)

Mangwana

Yes, there women have always been pretty, OH! you were talking about there women, right.

subsailor74:

I have the same gun although not quite as fancy as yours. I use Hornady cases and Winchester large rifle primers. Regulation was a snap. The load that I got from Grame Wright's book, Shooting the British Double Rifle, 3rd edition was 57 grains of Reloder 15 and a 286 grain Woodleigh RN SN. That load regulated perfectly in my gun and it also works with a 286 grain Hornady as well. I have not chronographed that load but the book says 2250 fps out of a 23.6 inch barrel. I have not shot any Barnes bullets out of this rifle. I was concerned that the 286 grain TSX would not expand reliably at this modest velocity but that 286 grain Woodleigh should be a dandy!

I have load data for H4350 as well if you need it.

For what it's worth, I love that little Chapuis because it handles so well. Mine is not scoped because I don't care for a scope on a double rifle. I have a couple of 9.3X62 scoped rifles to compliment the double. If I had bought that little Chapuis first, I doubt that I would have bought another double.

Dave - many thanks. The load sounds like a great place to stasrt. I have Graeme Wright's book as well. WRT the Barnes TSX bullets, I took a lot of game with them in June with my Searcy 9.3x74R stalking rifle. They performed spectacularly and accounted for 2 kudu, a wildebeest, 2 warthogs, an impala and a zebra. The bullets I recovered (only a few of them) had mushroomed perfectly into the X pattern the bullet is known for.
Mangwana

I do use the 250 grain TSX bullets in my 9.3X62 and they work quite well in that gun.

Good luck and good hunting. You are going to love that little Chapuis.

Great looking rifle.

Mike

Wow.

While I like my Chapuis, that is a beautiful gun. Exactly what I would have wanted.


Ken, you may be doing some more buisness with me soon if you keep selling guns like that.

Sub, I know that Ken ordered that gun for his personal consumption. It was never on the market. Congrats on pulling the rabbit out of the hat!! Best of luck!!

Oui oui...

Wish I had known about that rifle before I bought my UGEX from Ken! Nice weapon.

Beautiful rifle.

Dave - I also use the 250 gr TSX in my 9.3x62 bolt gun, and I get ragged hole groups. I would like to take you up on your offer for H4350 loads. I assume all liability for any load data used.
Please forward when you get a chance.
Mangwana

Beautiful rifle. Love the skeletonized buttplate!

Sub:

Again, this is data that I got from Grame Wright's Shooting The British Double Rifle, 3rd Edition. Grame used RWS brass, Winchester large rifle primers, and 286 grain Woodleigh RN SN bullets. 63 grains of H4350 was running 2240 fps. 64 grains, 2270 fps. 65 grains, 2280 fps. With a 286 grain Woodleigh FMJ, 63 grains of H4350 was running 2240 fps.

Here is some additional data that I got from Johan Loubser at Ramshot/Accurate powder. My gun regulated with 56 grains of Ramshot BIG GAME and a 286 grain Hornady:

Caliber: 9.3x74R.
Barrel length: 24”
Powder: Ramshot – BIG GAME®.
Bullet weight: 286-293 grains.
Start load: 53.0grains (2075 – 2175 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 59.0 grains (2300 – 2400 Ft/p/sec).

Powder: Accurate -- 4064®.
Bullet weight: 286 grains.
Start load: 52.0 grains (2100 – 2200 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 56.5 grains (2300 – 2400 Ft/p/sec).

Thanks Dave - do any of these loads regulate better in your rifle than the others?
Mangwana

Sub:

I have only tried BIG GAME and Reloder 15. I liked Reloder 15 the best because it is an extruded powder and it was a bit more case filling. I have not tried H4350 or Accurate 4064. If you gun was regulated with a 286 grain bullet, I'm guessing it will regulate around 2250 fps. On my gun, the right barrel shoots a bit high and the left barrel shoots a little low but only about one inch apart.

I have a hunch that your gun will come right into regulation with this load data. Let me know how you do.

My load is the 286 TSX with 53grs of IMR 4064. This is listed as the MAX load so work up accordingly. This load chronagraphed at 2267 in my UGEX. It also matched the supplied test target, exactly.

Thanks to all who posted load data for my Chapuis double. I had it out to the range yesterday for the first time, and I am happy with my initial results. I must confess it always galls me when factory loads shoot better than my hand loads, but in this case the rifle was regulated for the factory load I shot. I need to try to duplicate the Norma Oryx load as best I can.
Mangwana

I want to again thank all of you who helped my out with load data for my Chapuis RGEX in 9.3x74R. After working loads up for the past few weeks, I thought I would share the loads that were the most successful in my rifle. All loads used Norma brass and Winchester WLR primers. The spread I list in inches is center to center, left barrel to right barrel (average) at 100 yards using a scope. I have not chronographed any of these loads as yet. Those loads are:

286gr Barnes TSX, 53.0gr IMR 4064 - 1.92" (for this load, the barrels crossed, so I plan to reduce the load and try to bring accuracy in even tighter)

286gr Barnes TSX, 55.0gr RL15 - 1.90"
286gr Hornady spire point, 67.0gr H414 - 1.49"
286gr Woodleigh Solid, 66.0gr RL19 - 1.75"
286gr Woodleigh Soft (protected point), 68.0 H414 - 2.80"
285gr Norma Oryx Factory load - 2.92"

Needless to say, I am very happy with this Chapuis double!

Mangwana

Just curious, when you used the load I supplied which was the 53grs IMR 4064 and 286gr TSX, did the barrels cross with the scope on or off. When I supplied that load, I had only shot mine without the scope and it handled that load exactly like the regulation target that came with the rifle. But once I put the scope on, that load crossed with a 6" spread at 50yrds and crossed off the target at 100yrds.

Just curious! They are nice little rifles though, eh?

Todd - I tried your load only with the scope on and only at 100yds. I am going to try to back off to 52.5 and then 52 gr to see how they print. I will also try your load without the scope to see what happens. I am curious!

Yes, they are great little rifles.

Mangwana

SubS,

A very nice gun! Hope you enjoy shooting it.

Does anyone know the key difference between the Artisan serie and the non-artisan serie RGEX?

Robert

I have never owned a Chapuis double rifle, but I have shot several, and know a lot of folks who own and hunt with Chapuis rifles, and I have never seen one that was not super accurate!

...........................................Congratulations Sub!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Just curious, when you used the load I supplied which was the 53grs IMR 4064 and 286gr TSX, did the barrels cross with the scope on or off. When I supplied that load, I had only shot mine without the scope and it handled that load exactly like the regulation target that came with the rifle. But once I put the scope on, that load crossed with a 6" spread at 50yrds and crossed off the target at 100yrds.

Just curious! They are nice little rifles though, eh?

The 53gr load with 286gr TSX crossed at 100 yards with the scope on the rifle. I backed the load off a half grain to 52.5gr and shot the rifle today with the scope off at 50 yards. 2 shots were within an inch of each other,not crossing. This load is definitely worth refining.
Mangwana

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Just curious, when you used the load I supplied which was the 53grs IMR 4064 and 286gr TSX, did the barrels cross with the scope on or off. When I supplied that load, I had only shot mine without the scope and it handled that load exactly like the regulation target that came with the rifle. But once I put the scope on, that load crossed with a 6" spread at 50yrds and crossed off the target at 100yrds.

Just curious! They are nice little rifles though, eh?

The 53gr load with 286gr TSX crossed at 100 yards with the scope on the rifle. I backed the load off a half grain to 52.5gr and shot the rifle today with the scope off at 50 yards. 2 shots were within an inch of each other,not crossing. This load is definitely worth refining.
Mangwana

Yep, that's what I get as well. At 50 yards, scope off, it's a great load. But with the scope on, it crosses. I still haven't found a load that works with the scope on. I'm working with the CEB Non-Cons right now. Thought I had it the other day with IMR 4831. The shots were apart but coming together as I increased powder. Then I got to a point where they started diverging again.

So I'm back to starting over. IMR 4831 would not bring them together with the scope. IMR 4064 and RL 15 crosses them. I think the sweet spot will be determined by load density. The 4831 is compressed while the latter two powders are about 93%. I need to find something that gives about 2400fps with 100% density. I've never used filler before but bought some the other day to see if that would solve the issue with the 4064.

If you find something that works with the scope on AND off, please let me know. I'll do the same for you. Hopefully we'll get this figured out soon.

Todd

Todd, Have you tried any of the Vita Vouri powders? The Barnes book lists several. I have tried the N550 and it is promising. I haven't been able to get any N140 yet but it looks like it would give good load density at proper velocities.

Nice looking rifle Admiral, I'm sorry, Dave.
So when do the others come in so you one for each day of the week?

quote:

Originally posted by BayouBob:
Todd, Have you tried any of the Vita Vouri powders? The Barnes book lists several. I have tried the N550 and it is promising. I haven't been able to get any N140 yet but it looks like it would give good load density at proper velocities.

Bob, I haven't tried them but did notice that the N140 looks to be close to 100% density with good velocity. If I don't get it sorted out soon, I'll give them a try. Thanks for the heads up!

Todd:

It's not the powder. The Chapuis is very light so the weight of the scope is what's causing the crossing. Try a Dr. Optic instead of the scope or sight the scope in with the right barrel and your 286 grain TSX.

Pagosa - the 9.3x74R that Bailey Bradshaw is building for me should be ready in a month or so. The .375 Flanged Magnum that Butch Searcy is building should deliver in September.
Mangwana

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Todd:

It's not the powder. The Chapuis is very light so the weight of the scope is what's causing the crossing. Try a Dr. Optic instead of the scope or sight the scope in with the right barrel and your 286 grain TSX.

Could be Dave but I'm not ready to give up yet. I have had significant differences in powders so far. As mentioned, IMR 4831 has the barrels printing 4 to 6 inches apart while IMR 4064 and RL15 have them crossing 4 to 6 inches, all with the same velocity. The main difference that I see is load density. Is it possible somehow that is affecting the dynamics?

Since one group of powders tried so far are crossing and another is spreading, I think there is a "holy grail" somewhere that I just haven't tried yet. I could be wrong.

If all else fails, I can always try a different scope but I sure would like to make the Trijicon work.

My Chapuis 9,3 shoots good with 286 gr bullets and 65 gr of IMR 4831.

However baised on what you have said about the powders in your Chapuis I would try IMR 4350.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
My Chapuis 9,3 shoots good with 286 gr bullets and 65 gr of IMR 4831.

However baised on what you have said about the powders in your Chapuis I would try IMR 4350.

Mine shoots well with 65 gr of IMR 4831 also, but with the scope off. With it on, it is not bringing the bullets together with the CEB's. I haven't tried the TSX with 4831. Really just haven't found that magic combo yet, but because some are crossing and some are spreading, I can't help but think there is an answer. If all were either crossing or spreading, I would have a different opinion.

I haven't gotten to IMR 4350 yet. It is next on my list however! I have several pounds of it, just a matter of time you know!

Admiral,
You are going to have a quandry on your hands. Which double do I take on THIS hunt. Over weight baggage fees and all. I think you have been drinking the Kool Aid Sir! they shipped my Searcy .470 today. I should have it by Friday. I already have 40 rounds loaded according to Butch's regulation data and am all atwitter! (Can a Marine be all atwitter?) Got some of the CEB's loaded that micheal458 recommends as well, will see how they do before the shoulder sugery.
Mangwana ni

Pagosa - you are right about being in a quandry about which double to take. I had this discussion with Mike Payne, my PH, last night. For my upcoming hunt, I am pretty much settled on my Searcy 450/400 and the Chapuis 9.3x74R in this thread.
While on the topic of the Chapuis, when at the range this weekend, the pin that holds the safety catch in place on the rear ring of my Recknagel mounts came out without my knowing. The result was loss of the pin and safety catch piece. The mount still works, it just does not lock into position. I called Ken Buch for advice, and Ken is sending me a new lower ring assembly he had on hand. For my money, Ken Buch and Butch Searcy provide the best customer service in the business. Both consistently exceed my expectatons. Now I have to find a place that carries spare parts for Recknagel rings. I have an E-Mail in to NEGC, but no response yet. Anybody else out there have to get parts for Recknagel mounts? If so, please point me in the right direction.

Getting a new double is always exciting. Please send photos when you have it in hand......and yes, a Marine can be all atwitter. It is what keeps us young!

Mangwana