Decided to cancel my order and Bailey refunded me as agreed. Sure will regret not owning one of his double falling blocks...

What is the delivery time on these running these days?

I waited two years before I gave up. It took another year to get my deposits back. Biebs has waited over four years. Some have waited much less, so it seems highly variable. Bailey should perhaps be the one replying to the question himself. I am simply grateful the deal was resolved in the way it was even though there was a very long wait.

Only a year to get a deposit back? And that earns him a +?. I am guessing you are just happy to finally see your money back.
I thank you for posting this. To many people on here just suck up bad experiences without saying a word which can lead others to repeat the same mistakes.

Reminds me of the Waffenfabrik Hein debacle a while back.

Hein never refunded deposits. Big difference.

I meant in terms of the general headache.

I certainly have no antipathy for Mr. Bradshaw, but if it takes a year to get your money back, "as agreed", then that is a BRILLIANT RED FLAG. Like some fine gunsmiths, it suggests he is using future work payments to cover current expenses.

However, I note that his site currently (and I don't know what the old terms were)states (bold emphasise mine):

quote:

Terms for ordering are as follows. A 1/3 non refundable deposit is required for ordering. A second 1/3 payment is due when the metalwork if complete and the rifle is ready for stocking. The final 1/3 is due prior to shipment.

So, maybe Norsk was lucky to get his deposit back at all. I don't know and, to repeat, don't have any antipathy for either person.

Gatogordo, you are probably right about the red flag.. The refund was a special deal suggested by Bailey after delays. Two deposits plus wood upgrade (9500usd)... I am happy I got refunded, but the wait and strings of empty promises has been unacceptable. Personally I have lost faith in smiths (previous experiences as well) and now purchased a mil spec switch barrel rifle (sako m10 .338lm) where there will never be a need for a gunsmith... No more DR or dreams if buffalo for me for a long time, if ever again..

quote:

No more DR or dreams if buffalo for me for a long time, if ever again..

Norsk:

You can hunt a buffalo for about the price of that rifle. Use a decent bolt action or borrow/rent one from the PH.

I am really impressed with the quality of the rifles some of our custom gunsmiths come up with. But a one man operation is limiting. How many fine bolt rifles can one man make in a year? And, more to the point, how many double rifles, especially if one man is making the action, installing and regulating the barrels, engraving, crafting the wood, checkering, and finishing both metal and wood himself?

I don't see how one man could make such a double rifle with a completion rate of one per month. But assuming even that, you're looking at about ten rifles a year. Perhaps a more realistic guess is half that. I don't know. But when a second man is added to the equation to do all the wood shaping, fitting, checkering, and finishing then the primary gunsmith has more time to devote to the rest of the project. When an third man is added to handle all the metal after the barrels are regulated and fixed in place then the main gunsmith has even more time to make the actions, barrel, and regulate. Using a dedicated engraver increases production even more. Some gunsmiths don't have full time employees to help with production but use part-timers and/or subcontract a lot of the work out.

The nut to crack, or so it seems to me, is the jump from a one man-does-all shop to a two or three man operation, sending things out for sub-work as required. Some smiths make the jump and some don't. Those who don't are doomed to long lead times and their work resides on the edge of obscurity.

Who else is waiting for a rifle or a refund from Bailey? Respond here or in a PM.

Gotdamn you men are patient, I always heard patience were for Dr's and Dentists, and I'm neither.

Hey Gunner? What's up?

Nothing but work Brudda, between haying, brush hogging, cleaning fence rows, spraying weeds, and wifey breaking my back in the garden, I see no way out till deer season this fall here at the 'slave encampment. '

Join the club....when I knock a few items off her list, she adds on a few more :-(

quote:

Who else is waiting for a rifle or a refund from Bailey? Respond here or in a PM.

Got four AR members so far.

Biebs

I am waiting for a refund, over two years now.

Got it, thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Join the club....when I knock a few items off her list, she adds on a few more :-(

LOL same/same, the ever present [on fridge door] and most dreaded honeydo list!

Bailey is located in East Texas and I do not think there are many folks that live in that area who are qualified or would meet the standards set by Mr Bradshaw, so that is another element that appears to be a limiting factor to reasonable time to complete a custom rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Only a year to get a deposit back? And that earns him a +?. I am guessing you are just happy to finally see your money back.
I thank you for posting this. To many people on here just suck up bad experiences without saying a word which can lead others to repeat the same mistakes.

One must remember that Bailey is by himself in the making of double rifles, from the actual building of the rifle, finishing the steel, regulating, doing all the wood work, and does all the engraving himself. For a one man opperation it is little wonder that it takes two years. The big makers have many specialized people for each skill and it still takes at least a year for them to build a double rifle that is worth owning.

Bradshaw does fine work but if a buyer is not willing to wait till the work is done right, then buy a Rem 700 and get it the same day from Walmart, and go hunting!

......................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Only a year to get a deposit back? And that earns him a +?. I am guessing you are just happy to finally see your money back.
I thank you for posting this. To many people on here just suck up bad experiences without saying a word which can lead others to repeat the same mistakes.

One must remember that Bailey is by himself in the making of double rifles, from the actual building of the rifle, finishing the steel, regulating, doing all the wood work, and does all the engraving himself. For a one man opperation it is little wonder that it takes two years. The big makers have many specialized people for each skill and it still takes at least a year for them to build a double rifle that is worth owning.

Bradshaw does fine work but if a buyer is not willing to wait till the work is done right, then buy a Rem 700 and get it the same day from Walmart, and go hunting!

......................................................................

No one is questioning that. But once a delivery date is given it should be delivered within a reasonable time frame of the promised date. A man is only as good as his word.
And it has ZERO to do with the 1-2 year wait to get a deposit back. Bradshaw is always free to post his own comments don't you think?

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
[Mac, since you seem to have come to the defense of this guy what is your opinion of the 1-2 year wait to get a deposit back?

I certainly could be wrong, but My thought is that he has spent all the deposite for the work he has already done on the order, and it may take a year for him to gather the money back to refund that money and still eat!

You must understand this is a very small operation, and the man is not a rich man. However I do understand the frustration involved when this happens and I'm quite sure Baily hates this as much as the customer does, but if he doesn't have the money he can't refund till he does have it.
......................................................................

Pretty easy to fix. Deliver what you promised around the date you said it would be finished. Correct? After all, Bradshaw schedules the delivery date doesn't he?

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Pretty easy to fix. Deliver what you promised around the date you said it would be finished. Correct? After all, Bradshaw schedules the delivery date doesn't he?

I guess you're right! However sometimes folks fall on hard times that weren't there when the deal was made. I do know that Baily had a hip replacement a couple years ago, and was laid up for some time. That may have contributed to his back log and his ability to finish or refund in a timely fashion!

What ever the reason I'll reserve condemnation till I know more. I do hate the fact that the customer didn't get his rifle, and the refund coming very late, but I just think both the customer, and Baily are both losers in this. The customer didn't get his rifle and baily lost the respect of many here who know no more than I the real cause of this failed transaction.

However sense neither of us knows the reason and what ever we say is only opinion, nothing more!
............................................................................

I can say that I am patiently waiting. My read on the situation is that he is a one man show, has other things going on and is behind. I know he has refined the falling block double action and that has taken some time. I cannot fault him for that. I also know that if you ordered a 2 barrel set it was nowhere near as straightforward because it turns into a take down.

Those things said, it also comes down to money. I think Bailey started the introductory prices too low. Starting out under-capitalized is never good.

I have been waiting as long as most and will wait some more. His work and his product are worth the wait to me.

Matt

Is he continuing to take new orders?

Mac...I am not a remington man even though I have owned a few . Before experiencing this firsthand I defended Bailey on these forums (Todd mentioned negative PM chatter) and do have sympathy for hard working and perhaps unfortunate functional artists trying to make a living based on their passion. What I do not fancy is being misled. When I placed the first deposit I was promised (reassured) 18 months build time at the most. I have pages of mail correspondance where reassurances of the rifles completion are made. got 24 month refund agreement after 18 months with nothing made. After 21 months I got pics of barrels, action and stock roughed out (very rough). I then paid the second deposit (now total 9500 including wood upgrade). Three months after this nothing. asked for the agreed upon refund to which he agreed. the following 12 months the money has been "just around the corner" every month, same deal as with the rifle build. I have repeatedly asked what has happened to the rifle as it has been my only collateral. He never replied to this. I suspect the rifle was sold and the money has been used for other expenses since he has refused to reply. In the end I am just happy I finally got my money back as it would be a pain to run a lawsuit here from Norway (but something I was preppared to do and informed him of). A really dishonest man would perhaps have gambled on no repercussions from someone so far away. I am not bitter any longer and wish Bailey well but I am in no obligation to help mask his buisness records here... People should know what to expect and base their decisions on what has happened in the past. I believe Biebs now has waited 5 years. The worst part about this all is I really believe in Bailey as a craftsman, too bad he does not seem as talented running his buisness. The constantly evolving falling block design is ingenious!

Norsk, thank you for this very detailed post with information from the horses mouth so to speak.

quote:

Originally posted by Norsk:
Mac...I am not a remington man even though I have owned a few . =

My recommending you to buy a Walmart special Rem 700 was a sarcastic joke!

Most here would never even consider a Rem 700 rifle over anything worth owning, much less a double rifle!
......................
Now gentlemen of this website the above information from someone who is fully apprised of facts is something one can base an opinion on!
Let me be clear, I have no reason to disbelieve Norsk now that he has come forward with his explanation of FACTS not AR's usual kangaroo court indictment from just one side of an issue. Now for Baily's side I'll wait to make my final judgment. That part of my opinion will remain until I hear the other side. But it will not be here on a website till it has more that one side!

If all this is true and I have no way of knowing but I will say this, With this new information it seems where there is smoke it may indicate a pending fire!
This is my last word on this matter!
...................................................................

Any updates from you guys who are waiting for rifles or refunds?

At the time all this started it was pushed hard by someone that no longer posts on here but some that still post here also got in on the praise. It was a feeding frenzy of optimism as the next best thing. Even though the party doing the work was untested and nothing showed in his history he was up to the task of having the proper business accuman to handle such an undertaking.
If it seems too good to be true it is most always too good to be true.
I hope all eventually get what satisfaction they need from the transactions they have entered into. At the end of the day when you take money from someone the general consensus is you have a moral obligation if nothing else for that money. But in cases like this when others are pushing or heaping praise on a product or service, take your time before jumping in and do your due diligence to make sure it's worthy of the hype.

I have my rifle, and it is all I hoped for. It is a wonderful piece of working art.
That's the good news.
I was told 14 months when I ordered. It took roughly twice that, and there were issues with unreliable cocking. Bailey retrofitted a redesigned mechanism, a what was to have taken 3 months took over a year.
Taking a long time is acceptable, but I have a problem with not being able to say what you are going to do and then doing it.
A one man shop is not an industrial operation, so a bit of slack is understandable, but delays like these are hard to take.

Sad to hear about the delays, since his work is one off, and well executed technically.


Businessmen deliver on time, everytime, but you often get crap delivered.

Artists, professionals, craftsman deliver excellent quality, but on their own timetable/terms.

It is the uncommon, if not rare bird indeed that posses both the business acumen AND the requisite quality.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Sad to hear about the delays, since his work is one off, and well executed technically.


Businessmen deliver on time, everytime, but you often get crap delivered.

Artists, professionals, craftsman deliver excellent quality, but on their own timetable/terms.

It is the uncommon, if not rare bird indeed that posses both the business acumen AND the requisite quality.

...............................................................ABSOLUTELY!

quote:

Originally posted by Marty:
I have my rifle, and it is all I hoped for. It is a wonderful piece of working art.
That's the good news.
I was told 14 months when I ordered. It took roughly twice that, and there were issues with unreliable cocking. Bailey retrofitted a redesigned mechanism, a what was to have taken 3 months took over a year.
Taking a long time is acceptable, but I have a problem with not being able to say what you are going to do and then doing it.
A one man shop is not an industrial operation, so a bit of slack is understandable, but delays like these are hard to take.

You taking it on your upcoming trip Marty?

long live Butch Searcy-I got my rifle in 8 months

I am sorry to hear this. Mr. Bradshaw builds some fine guns.

I won't be hunting it this time around. When I started shooting seriously this summer, I just didn't shoot as well as I wanted. Yet.
My old BSS based Searcy that I have had for 10 years and have fired easily 1000 rounds through is an old friend. It is inelegant, but has never let me down.
My job will be to start doing some volume shooting with the Bradshaw, so it becomes an old friend as well.

AT my age I'm past the need for a custom made rifle. For the same money or less you can buy Sauer 404, Mauser M03, or Blaser. They are truly Out of The Box accurate. You can have multiple calibers with the same basic rifle. They disassemble for travel and storage. Put it back together and it holds zero.

I'm not saying go down and buy a Sauer 404, Blaser or Mauser M03, but you ought to at least look at them. After all it's your money and your time which I am sure you can spare!
Why wait for what seems an eternity for a custom rifle that may or may not be what you wanted. Go pick out a system rifle and be shooting it a whole heck of a lot sooner.

No one likes change. But change is here! Not all change is good. There are new products and some are better than the past! Along with change come versatility, and dependability!
It is proper to revere the past. However it is the past!
Just my thoughts!