Well, I am within a couple of days of leaving on my first bull elephant hunt in Namibia. After several hundred rounds of sighting in, load development, and practice with two double rifles (one is a two barrel set) in three calibers, I have a few thoughts.

First, the real...practical essence of the double rifle is two almost instantly available, heavy caliber shots. It is that second round that sets the double rifle apart from all the rest.

Second, I was unprepared for the inaccuracy that seems to be a part of double rifles. Granted I am used to outstanding hunting rifle accuracy from finely built rifles; but the fickle nature of double rifles has surprised me. The Searcy 375 flanged often puts a pair of bullets within an inch at 50yds. More than acceptable. The Searcy 450-400 is more like a consistent 2" shooter and my Heym 470 nitro is from 2 1/2" to 3". I guess I was thinking that a golf ball should be an every shot possibility, but no.

Third, the beauty and balance of the double rifles is very pleasing. The double just seems to be the appropriate rifle for an elephant hunt. I have grown very attached to feel of the shouldered double.

Unfortunately I seem to have trashed the Heym for the moment. The left barrel has a firing pin that is protruding about a 32nd of an inch. It will still fire but it drags heavily on the spent primer on opening, which is very difficult. Chris tells me that it is a simple fix with a new firing pin but I am out of time. So the Heym stays in Texas.

I am quite confident in the accuracy of the Searcy, it is a finely made rifle and the Barnes banded solid seems to have all the penetration that I will need. I will use the 450-400 Searcy barrel set as a back-up. I am terribly disappointed that the Heym will not be available, but I am glad I found the problem on my home range instead of Africa. Makes me wonder about hand detachable sidelocks. Would they be more field servicable?

I have decided that I will commission an all out dangerous game bolt gun when I get back. Maybe a 404 jeff or a 416 Rigby, maybe a 375. A robust double square bridge mauser in all likelihood, to use as an all-around, back-up dangerous game rifle. Teamed with a solid double rifle this combination strikes me as the best of both worlds.

Have any of you come to similar conclusions?

Take care all,
josh

Josh,

Sorry to hear about your Heym having a problem and not being able to go with you.

I agree with most of your observations about a double rifle. They do feel good and that quick second shot is - well quick!

The Merkel 470 I had (and Mac now has) would put two rounds in the same hole at 50 if you did your job. I seldom did off-hand and did not like shooting it from the bench but it was accurate and dependable. I never had a bit of trouble with it and it went to Africa a few times and took 2 ele and a couple of buff.

Nothing better than hunting ele with a double. I sold mine as I thought 2 ele were enough, then went back and shot another one with a 416 Win model 70.

I grew up shooting scoped rifles and never used iron sights until I got the double. I also always shot a single trigger even on double shotguns, and struggled to get used to double triggers. I guess I am just bolt gun trash but like reading and visiting the double rifle forum. I am hoping to go get another ele one of these days, It would be nice to be able to afford a nice Westley Richards double with a single trigger and take that but I would rather use the bolt gun and spend money on trophy fees.

Good Luck you will have a fun time.

BigB

I hae always taken 2 doubles to Africa.

I did shoot some smaller plains game with my wifes Blaser R 93 on our last trip.

I have found that whatever accuracy the double rifle gives u to a good bolt has not been a factor on ANY hunt I have used a double rifle on. From field positions I can shoot one just as good as the other.

I have proven this to myself on several occasions when i shot a 458 Bolt rifle and my 450 No2 side by side on the same course of fire.

I ws even using a scope on the 458 at 75 and 100 yards, the double was iron sights all the way.

When hunting Africa, and anyother game where shots will usually be under 200 yards I much prefer the Double Rifle.

I have never worried about the accuracy of my doubles, all I worry about is MY accuracy.

Josh - Your experience is not too uncommon for guys that reload for their first double.

Doubles are certainly more picky about bullets (shape, weight, etc...) and powders, but I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss their accuracy potential.

By adding or subtracting a little velocity, you can move the bullets where you want.

This is 4 shots from my 450/400 at 50yds with 400 gr Swifts.



Here is 4 with Hornady bullets at 100 yards


These are 470s at 50yds.

Notice the drifing of the sights with the group movement.







None of those are terribly accurate by single-barrel rifle standards, but a double is effectively two rifles in one.

Different bullets of the same weight will move around on the target, and different powders will print the same bullets in different places. It can be tedious, but the results are woth the effort once you dial it in.

Double rifles are an archaic system that simply can not compete with the accuracy of a more modern single barrel system. That is a simple fact. On the other hand, despite all the obsessing, all most all rifles Double and otherwise are mechanically more accurate than the shooting platform that is made of bone supported by quivering muscles.
Congratulations on your hunt. You are going to do great. The one thing I will warn you about tho is that once you hunt elephants you will spend the rest of you hunting life either doing it or wishing that you were hunting elephants again.

I guess all of our expectations for accuracy are different, but a 4" group at 100yds with ANY single barrel rifle would be a rapid trip back to the guy that built it with a real good explanation to be expected.

I am able to tell the difference in the field between a so-so shooter and one that produces razor edge accuracy. I am not sure that I would say that less than perfect accuracy has been a problem, but the difference is noticeable.

The iron sights are fine, and frankly I prefer iron if they are not costing me too much as far as accuracy goes. The sights on both these doubles seem well suited for close range. I have mounted a scope on the 375 Searcy just to speed up the sighting process. I haven't made up my mind whether I'll leave it there for the hunt. I might leave it just for the speed, but the rifle looks more elegant without it.

Archaic is the word, they are very cool but are about like all those Sharps single shots I have used for so long. Very old in design.

I probably will get rid of the Heym when I get time, I have lost confidence in it and I will definitely never go DG hunting again with just one double rifle in the box. A back-up looks to be mandatory.

I dunno,
josh

Josh, take no offense in what I am about to say, but your feelings are typical, of a erson that has had good bolt rifles and is an accuracy freek, and basically BOLT RIFLE TRASH. [Notice the Smiley].

Many peole that first get a Double go through the same tribulations you are experiencing.

However think about it, in the field it does not matter how small a grou your RIFLE shoots, all that matters is how well YOU AND THE RIFLE SHOOT.

Also I have found that having the second shot immediately avialable has proven to be more important that a magazine full rounds in a Bolt Rifle.

I feel safer hunting cape buff and elephant with a 9,3x74R double rifle than ANY bigger calibre bolt rifle.

When you get to Africa you MUST have confidence in your Rifle. Your doubles are shooting plenty accurate enough. IF your aim is true, and your trigger pull smooth, then you will have no problems.

AS long as I can hit a 9" paper plate at 100 yards, from hunting positions, with my doubles [or ANY RIFLE FOR THAT MATTER], THEN ALL I NEED IS SOME RICH GUY TO PAY MY TROPHY FEES.

Your doubles are good to go. Do the hunt with not worry.

What 450NE No2 says is true. The accuracy difference between a, say 458, bolt rifle shooting 1" at 100yds and a 450 or 450/400 double rifle shooting 4" at that same distance is immaterial.

If you can hit the lid of a 5 gal bucket at 100yds, you can easily kill a buff at that range, the whole bucket and more for an ele. Not that I'd advocate shooting an elephant or a buff at 100yds.

What NewGuy says is also true, finding the "perfect" load can be time consuming, but its worth it. To test for accuracy potential, which seems important to you, you really need to shoot off a standing (prefered) or sitting bench and try different combos from there. North Fork or GS Custom bullets have an edge on accuracy compared to other mono or cored solids - NF's personal experience, GS Custom from 500 Grains reports to me. But 2" at 50 is a starting point, imo.

As far as the perfect two rifle battery for a hunt involving DG, imo, it is a heavy double and a scoped 375H&H bolt. The double for use on DG the bolt for everything else, and for backup if the double's ammo goes missing or the double does tits up. Plus, the bolt can be racked in the truck with an empty chamber and full magazine for targets of opportunity, a real plus when you are also cat hunting. Likewise, a tracker can carry the scoped 375 with a full magazine for targets of opportunity or for any shots on buff that might exceed you comfort range with the double and open sights. (Though I prefer to get closer and closer yet, and am willing to pass on further shots, many others feel otherwise.

JPK

My combination for an elephant hunt was a 500NE double coupled with a synthetic stocked Dakota 416 Rigby. I could never bring myself to make the total commitment to a double that many here have done. I wish I could but I grew up with a love affair with nice bolt guns.

450, I understand what you are trying to say. We have two principles trying to compete that should complement each other.

Confidence in the rifle is an essential element in the field. No matter the rifle's real failings, if the hunter is confident in the rifle (and I think fit and balance are about 75% of this) then the hunter/rifle combination is likely to perform well.

On the other hand, it is a popular but erroneous thing to state "the rifle shoots better than I can" or like Els was saying "flesh and bone are the weak link." In reality you must ADD the the hunter's aiming errors with the rifle's shooting errors. It would be more accurate to say that an accurate rifle can make a mediocre shooter a mediocre shooter, and a less accurate rifle can make a mediocre shooter a lousy shooter. No matter what else happens, the less accuracy the rifle displays, the less accuracy the hunter displays.

We're adding errors on top of each other.

In my particular case, I do believe I have the Searcy sorted out. The 375 will stay on a baseball at 50yds from a field rest and the 450-400 is right behind it. I am not sure I would try to brain shoot an elephant at 50yds once the excitement is added in, but it should be fine for a heart shot. Inside 25yds either should be plenty capable of brain shots if I can hold up my end of the deal.

I had better get that ammunition loaded.

Take care,
josh

Here's a 10-shot group at 100 (the rear sight needs to be drifted over a bit.)

Here is a good example of what I mean when I say they can be finicky.

These are two groups at 100-yards. Shot on the same day.

The only difference in these two groups is one grain of powder.

Group 1:



Group 2: (one grain more)

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:

A robust double square bridge mauser...Teamed with a solid double rifle this combination strikes me as the best of both worlds.

josh

+1

Josh, the combination that I finally settled on was a scope sighted .416 Rigby and a Krieghoff 500/416 double with open sights. I shoot 350 grain TSX bullets in the Rigby and 410 Woodleigh softs and solids in the 500/416. PERFECT!

Josh at the ranges you'll be shooting elephants you have all the power and accuracy you'll need. Go have a good hunt!

The battery I'am building for Africa is the following:

1) 300 Jarrett
2) 375 Flange Searcy Double with detach 1X6 scope
3) 375 H&H bolt by AHR
4) 416 Rigby by Ryan Breeding
5) 500 NE by Searcy
6) 505 Gibbs by Ryan Breeding

May also add a 450/400 3" and a 600 OK
in the future

I will take a bolt and double of appropriate caliber depending on the type of hunt and game being hunted giving you the utmost in versatilty and accuracy.

Why do you care what your 100 yard groups are like when you shouldn't be shooting at an Elephant with a double rifle past 30 yards anyway? Kind of defeats the purpose I think.

My desire to kill an Elephant with a double rifle reflects on my readings of the old time ivory hunters.....I want to cpeep right up to him and shoot him at close range. If I werwe more concerened with killing the biggest Elephant I could find, I would use the most efficient rifle available, which would be a scoped rifle.

My 2 cents anyway.

Josh,

My experience with a "new" Heym double is much the same as yours however, you were lucky enough to have your "situation" occur before you went not when you were 60 clicks from Arusha in the middle of the Tanzania bush like me.

Left barrel firing pin failure and upon opening I had one slightly shorter firing pin and now I had a $17,000.00 single shot, rather than the 500 double I thought I would have when I went into the "tall grass" after Tanzania buffalo.

As it was My Dakota 76 African in 416 Rigby worked perfectly well. On my first buffalo I fired two shots, one each in to each front shoulder in 3.59 seconds-on film-I don't suppose I could do that much faster with a double so don't worry you will be fine.

While I was lamenting the failure of the gun we spoke with a PH at the neighboring camp who had just returned his 577 to Heym after the barrels seperated at the muzzles after the 6th round! I was pissed his was absolutely livid!

You talk about accuracy, of the doubles I have owned the Searcy 470 was by far and away the most accurate with 4 rounds at 50 yards in 1 1/2". Butch's factory target was better than that. The "California Rigby" 470 would shoot 4 shots in 2" any day of the week. The Merkel 500 shot 2" or less with Superior ammo and with my slightly reduced handloads. My Heym 500 would only come close to attaining this accuracy with loads that were different loads in each barrel and did meet that accuracy with different loads with different powders for each barrel. A situation certainly not acceptable for hunting.

I traded the Heym for a GMA in 505 Gibbs and have not looked back since. I know what you are feeling by wanting to commission a good bolt gun and go with that. I would whole heartedly recomment Dakota or Empire and at this point I would have to say Empire first as my Dakota was a Don Allen era gun and I don't know about the new Dakota's but Empire I can recommend without reservation.

All,
A double rifle was never intended to be accurate (by bolt gun standards) only acceptable for its intended range and purpose.

Minute of buffalo and elephant is almost easy to hit with a rock at reasonable ranges.

What a double rifle was designed to do it does superior to every other firearm man has ever created. It does what no bolt action will do.
No one mentions it; in fact I recall a story in African Hunter that was written by Ed at Evolution where he failed to say a single thing about this too.

In his article all he wanted to talk about was a comparison between bolt guns and doubles and how fast he could clock a second follow up shot. He concluded that it was reasonably close enough that it mattered not that he had the second barrel of a double and that he would rather have a third shot from bolt gun…if I recall correctly.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THIS.

A double rifle is in fact a double rifle.
Here it is - NO MATTER what fails on the first rifle you will have a SECOND RIFLE IN YOUR HAND. This is why having a single trigger defeats the purpose of a double rifle.

When your life is potentially on the line, and your bolt gun has hung up, or your case stuck in the chamber do to pressure or some other nimrod subterfuge, a bolt gun insures you are screwed.
Murphy alamode.

I love bolt guns…too.
But the two were never intended to be compared. One is a tank, the other a jet fighter.

Best,

Adam

All,

Cars were not intended to go fast. In fact many drivers were scoulded and in some cases jailed for driving the horseless cariages at insane speeds of 10mph!

It is the nature of man to make "machines" do things they were not intended to do. I'm sure everyone even slightly familiar with doubles realizes they were not intended to be as accurate as a bolt gun. But isn't it amazing that some modern makers like Butch Searcy can make them rival a bolt gun-within reason.

I for one come from a sniper background and know very well even 1 1/2" at 50 yards is laughable by comparrison to a good scoped gun even at 200 yards, but it is all relative.

If I can get a double to shoot two inches at 50 yards then I will try to get it to shoot less than 2" at 50 yards and if I can beat that I will continue to try to better my best. However, as I am doing this I know full well it will never compete with my wife's Montana Rifleman 375 H&H that will shoot 3 Hornady softs inside MOA @ 100 yards or my Dakota 416 Rigby that will shoot two softs and two solids inside MOA at 100 yards. It is what it is but If I can get my doubles to shoot inside 2" at 50 then I will do it why settle for shooting at the shoulder rather than shooting at a point in your minds eye on that same shoulder or forehead etc.?

Adam, which is the tank and which is the jet fighter?

I guess several here have missed the point of my observation on double rifle accuracy (or lack of). I was just surprised by it, I am fully cognizant that at elephant ranges the accuracy is adequate. It just surprised me to see shots at 50yds that were a couple of inches from where I expected them to be.

Chris has posted lots of excellent double rifle groups, but they don't seem to be representative of the double rifle system in general. Chris obviously has his rifles shooting in top notch form, it still is not comparable with any other rifle. I just got back from the range checking the zero on my half worn out 300win mag Hagn single shot and five rounds went around 5/8ths. That's a rifle with about 3000 rounds down the tube and Nosler partitions. Matter of fact, if I owned a properly contructed bullet for that 300 that would penetrate deeply enough I would prefer to shoot the elephant with the Hagn. That is a rifle that put bullets right where they belong.

As to the Heym itself, I don't know what the source of the problem is with mine but it does seem something is a bit fragile. Thank goodness mine happened 6 days before I left and not when I was hunting. Shoot the hell out of anything you intend to rely on, that is the only way I can think to avoid the problem.

I have learned that I will never do a DG hunt with a double where I do not have a tried and capable back-up of some sort.

Back to the range.

I dunno.
josh

I also am a accuracy nut that is in love with double rifles. That can be considered a bit of a parradox but a rifle is what you make of it. I know I go against the grain a little in the double rifle world in that I have a practis of sighting the scope of my double rifle in on the right barrel.
I will work the load up to regulate with the iron sights at 50 yards but when the scope go'es on, it is a two barreled single shot.
I'm not saying that the left barrel is useless when the scope is on, I'm saying that I'm trying to get boltgun performance from my double so at ranges beyond 100 yds or so if my efforts at regulating the load can't get the left barrel to keep up then I'll be happy to put all my eggs in the right barrel basket.
Keep in mind I'm talking about ranges that are well outside normal double rifle distances.

The first photo is 50yd opensight from my .338 double. Second target is 100 yd right barel scope. This is just a recipe that works for me.
Since these targets were shot I've tightend up the groups for the ironsights quite a bit with some help from our own N.E.450#2.

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:
As to the Heym itself, I don't know what the source of the problem is with mine but it does seem something is a bit fragile. I dunno.
josh

Josh - As we discussed yesterday in our phone conversation, the firing pins on any double are the most fragile (smallest part) and most used.

If good snap caps are not used, (you indicated that yours looked pretty worn) the firing pins will slam into the back of the action and gall.

After enough galling, the firing pin will eventually stick in the primer. Forced open, it will bend or break the tip of the firing pin.

I've delivered over 150 new HEYM doubles, and have had to change one set of firing pins. Those were Tim's (500 Fan).

Yours will be the second set.

It's a good thing you found the problem before you were hunting, but it also emphasis the need for good snap caps.

If a double rifle is in fact, two rifles, then should we not be comparing groups from each barrel? If so, then I can state that I have several loads for both my doubles that will shoot two holes touching for the right barrel, and similarly for the left barrel at 50 yards. If the regulation of a double means that the holes (at the target) from the right and left barrels should be the same distance as the barrels of the double itself, then by definition, the group size of both barrels cannot be less than, say 1 1/2". I have thrown together loads that converge ie, shoot a 2" group at 50 yards ie. both barrels 4 rounds. This may not be a 'regulation" load in the correct sense, but it is probably the load I would use for elephant or buff. especially as this applies to soft points and solids!
Just my 2 cents! Peter.

In a perfect world a properly regulated double rifle will keep both bullets flying side by side out to infenity. With this in mind the left barrel will allways strike 1.5" or so to the left of point of aim. P.O.I. for the right barrel will allways be right on.
When the day comes that I shoot my .338 beyond 100 yds and the left barrel is 1.5" left of where I'm aiming I'll know I'm liveing in that perfect world. Before I try that test though I'll have to wait till Obama is out of ofice because till that happens it won't be a perfect world.

Chris, the snap caps that came with the rifle did look pretty dished out to me. I didn't use them more than once or twice to let the pins down for storage, etc. I am just not much on dry firing anything. I can't speak to the use of the last owner.

Actually knowing that mine will be the second set you have changed makes me feel much worse. I have rotten luck with rifles and if a manufacturer ever makes a clunker I am sure to get it and find the problem at a bad time. It would be nice to have normal luck like everyone else. Extremely irritating nonetheless to have a rifle in the class of the Heym fall on its sword this close to boarding the plane on an elephant hunt.

The good news is the Searcy is throwing aces with Barnes banded solids in 375fl. I should be fine, and I have a couple of more days to dial in the 450-400 barrel set.

Oh well, I needed a Hartmann and Weiss mauser rifle anyway. Might as well get it started.

I dunno.

josh

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
In a perfect world a properly regulated double rifle will keep both bullets flying side by side out to infenity. With this in mind the left barrel will allways strike 1.5" or so to the left of point of aim. P.O.I. for the right barrel will allways be right on.
When the day comes that I shoot my .338 beyond 100 yds and the left barrel is 1.5" left of where I'm aiming I'll know I'm liveing in that perfect world. Before I try that test though I'll have to wait till Obama is out of ofice because till that happens it won't be a perfect world.

your example is a perfect composit group if if your left barrel is shooting 1.5" But if the sights are correct your aiming point should be .75" to the right, or half way between the left barrel and the right barrel's hole.

This is a mistake poeple often make with adjusting the iron sights on a double rifle.

The proper way to find the aiming point for your rifle is to fire three shots from each barrel, on seperate targets in the order of Rt, LFT, rt, left, rt, lft Then overlay one target over the other, and with a ball point pen draw through the holes of one target onto the target below. Now just like a single barrel rifle target you need to find the center of each barrel's individual group, and mark it with a dot in each group Then measure between the two centers, and place another mark, that is where your rifle's sights need to be adjusted to point.

This is no different that finding the proper aiming point on a single rifle's group you fire a group find the center and adjaust you sights to that center. T difference between the double and the single barrel rifle is you want your sights to point to a point half way between the centers of each barrel's individual group. Each barrel shooting on it's own side of the aiming point, or paralell. If a three soth group for each barrel is fired, and both barrels are hitting the same ragged hole with all their shots, then the rifle is crossing to that range, and will get steadily wider down range.
This means the load is slightly too fast, and needs to back off very slightly, till the centers of each barrel's individual groups is on itt's own side of the aiming point! When you have this right, the composite group of both barrels will be slightly egg shaped along the horrizonal line, with the aiming point in the exact middle of that composit group. When this is the the composite group you have then you rifle is loaded properly, and the barrels will shoot side be side to infinity. Like any rifle regardles of type the groups get steadily larger as they go down range and the RIGHT side of the LEFT barrel's will spill over into the LEFT side of the RIGHT barrels group, but the centers of each barrel's individual groups will remain on it's own side of the composite group, or paralell, with tha aiming point half way between those centers.

quote:

Originally posted by 500 Fan:

While I was lamenting the failure of the gun we spoke with a PH at the neighboring camp who had just returned his 577 to Heym after the barrels seperated at the muzzles after the 6th round! I was pissed his was absolutely livid!

500Fan, do you happen to know what bullet that PH was useing in his 577NE Heym? I think I know why his Heym double's barrels seperated! So I hope you can shed some light on what bullet he was useing!

quote:

Originally posted by 500 Fan:

While I was lamenting the failure of the gun we spoke with a PH at the neighboring camp who had just returned his 577 to Heym after the barrels seperated at the muzzles after the 6th round! I was pissed his was absolutely livid!

Tim - PM me the PH's name and the company he works for or post it here. I'm sure I can get in touch with him by email to get his rifle's serial number.

I can then contact the factory on Monday and see exactly what they found when the rifle was returned. I'm quite interested to know, as I've never seen this.

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:
Chris, the snap caps that came with the rifle did look pretty dished out to me. I didn't use them more than once or twice to let the pins down for storage, etc. I am just not much on dry firing anything. I can't speak to the use of the last owner.

Actually knowing that mine will be the second set you have changed makes me feel much worse. I have rotten luck with rifles and if a manufacturer ever makes a clunker I am sure to get it and find the problem at a bad time. It would be nice to have normal luck like everyone else. Extremely irritating nonetheless to have a rifle in the class of the Heym fall on its sword this close to boarding the plane on an elephant hunt.

The good news is the Searcy is throwing aces with Barnes banded solids in 375fl. I should be fine, and I have a couple of more days to dial in the 450-400 barrel set.

Oh well, I needed a Hartmann and Weiss mauser rifle anyway. Might as well get it started.

I dunno.

josh

Josh,
You have been singing the blues from the beginning. First you had issues with the Searcy which you returned and had fixed. Then you purchase a proven double from a know member of the DRSS and now that too is a POS. You talk about your ongoing history with “Bad” rifles. Ever think the issues may be somewhere else? You began posting by asking questions about how to properly load for your doubles and was given very good advice by many on the forum. This advise would have greatly reduced your frustration should you have chosen to take it. But you were not willing to dig the Chronograph out of the garage and decided to just experiment. Amazing how you continue to have issues with regulation and now claim that Doubles are not accurate. Just curious if you were given any load recommendations from Butch or Jim and if you tried any of them? Next you damage your rifle and blame the Manufacturer? The icing on the cake is that you have just insulted yet another member who has offered to help. Your insinuation that Chris is not qualified to service the same firearm that he makes his living selling! My friend you can’t get out of your own way!

I wish you the best on your upcoming hunt and look forward to hearing of your successes on dangerous game. I also pray that you have a very patient PH!

Easy there slick, you know not of what you speak. I have run 31 different loads in the three rifle calibers over the chronograph and those chrono tapes are stapled to their corresponding 50yd targets shot from a purpose built standing bench.

The problem with the Searcy was a rear trigger pull that was under a pound and an ejector that would not eject. Came out of the box that way. Now would you like to explain to me how I caused those problems?

After nearly 100 rounds, including the FACTORY ammunition the Heym was regulated for the left firing pin is STUCK? That makes it a $17,000 single shot, to borrow a phrase. The Heym shoots so-so, but the left barrel is now out of commision. Would you let me know how I managed to screw up that firing pin?

Yesterday afternoon the Searcy 375fl put 4 rounds into 1" at 50yds. I consider that excellent accuracy. Before the Heym went tits up, it was closer 4" at 50yds. Maybe accurate enough, but hardly a stellar performer. The Searcy 450-400 is consistently a 2" 50yd gun, which is what was promised. I consider that fine as well.

So there Roscoe, would you please explain to me what my part in these rifle problems has been?

Now I will fully admit that I am not an armchair rifle shot. I don't sit around and look at my rifles. I have a 1200 yard range and air conditioned range house here at the ranch. I don't care what name is on the side of a rifle or what the reputation is, when one of them makes it out here we get to find out exactly how they perform. The Searcy is going to Africa and the Heym is sitting at the house. Do you see another solution?

j

Josh I have shot that Heym rifle on a couple of occasions and it shot good for me. I was shooting it off hand, but it hit fine for me.

When you were working up loads did you ever have any primers extrude into the firing in hole or any stiff opening?

That would be my question as well. Are the primers backing out of the cases?

I too have shot that rifle. I thought it shot well enough for me. I would guess that you have put more rounds through the rifle than the original owner.

I hope you find a load you will be happy with.

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:

I have a 1200 yard range and air conditioned range house here at the ranch.

j

Josh, can I come down and shoot at your house?

If you do come and shoot with Josh, you are in for a real treat. He has a splendid range and the air conditioned shooting house. He is also a very fine rifle shot. He and I used to shoot silhouette competition together and I have been priveleged to hunt on his ranch and have been his house guest on a number of occasions.

Not everyone shoots enough or is a good enough shot to be able to outshoot a particular rifle. When you get to the point you can do that, a whole new world of awareness opens up. A really good shot knows when it is him, and knows when it is the rifle. Josh is one of those that can tell the difference.

Sharps is being very kind, he masks his own excellent shooting with humility. One of the trips here Sharps shot a walking gobler in the neck at 50 yds with a Sharps rifle, lead bullet and black powder.

I do shoot an awful lot and generally shake out a rifle in short order.

I have looked back through the information on the Heym and one thing I have noticed is that almost all of the off call shots were from the left barrel. It also is displaying some flakey velocity. I am beginning to suspect that the left firing pin may have be a problem for a while. Possibly poor ignition? The right barrel on the other hand has pretty much been on call all along. The overall inaccuracy looks like it is mostly in the left barrel. So in fairness the firing pin could well be the only problem with the Heym.

I dunno.

j

quote:

Originally posted by Josh A.:
Easy there slick, you know not of what you speak. I have run 31 different loads in the three rifle calibers over the chronograph and those chrono tapes are stapled to their corresponding 50yd targets shot from a purpose built standing bench.

j

You have done some bench building since you firsts complaints about accuracy, where you insisted that shooting off the tail gate of your pick up was the only way to go... and how you'd proven so many bolt rifles that way... And how you were going to be relying on Hornaday ammo...

You would do best sticking with your bolts rifles, oh, but you've told us that you do not have one of sufficient calibre...

JPK

I know how to solve this. I have a very nice .458 built on a CZ Mauser right there in TX by Charley Coffiin. Absolutley a top notch bolt rifle built by a guild member. It shoots under an inch at 100 yds beuaifull English walnut etc.
I'll trade you for the Heym. What the heck I have a 16 bore Holland $ Holland in the classifieds as we speak. I'll throw that in as well.

Speaking for myself - comparing bolt actions to doubles is like comparing driving a car to riding a motorbike and I found myself to like leaning into corners much more than just turning the wheel

Punching holes in the target is somehow boring with doubles, however there are times when the shoe may well fit the other foot - my double with open sights on 60m:

Accuracy is so subjective. We typicly get one kind of accuracy out of one kind of rifle and another kind out of the other.
I have had some accuracy problems with my bolt action .338 that I thought I had solved.
I returned from the range today only wishing My targets were as good as the ones I posted here from my .338 double rifle.
A very dissapointing day at the range.

Josh I think that is pretty astute noting the L barrel was having velocity variations. That very well could have been a sticky firing pin. That certainly would have opened your groups up. Things like that will drive you crazy in a double rifle. I have been there done that.

Back to the beginning you are going to do great with your Searcy. Life's short go have fun!