VC vs Searcy

18 January 2012, 06:36

CCMDoc

Although quite biased I will share with you my perspectives.
I have had four Verney-Carron double rifles - two 600NE, a 450/400 and a 375Fl. All have felt great in my hands, come to my shoulder naturally and balance well.
All had wonderful wood to metal fit and finish and nicely figured wood - even those I bought with "base level" wood.
All shot extremely accurately with a variety of bullets and loads.
My experience with Ken Buch and with the people of Verney-Carron has been exemplary and I have always felt that my satisfaction was paramount.
Compared to others I had held, examined, shot and owned, I felt Verney-Carron doubles gave the most value for the money.

I have not owned nor shot a Searcy. From what I have read here you will get a lot of support for the gun as well as the man who stands behind them from pople who have ownd and shot them. And they are made here in the USA.

I think you would serve yourself best if you had the opportunity to hold and shoot some examples of each. Tough to do but if you come out this way for some reason, you are welcome to shoot the 600 and 375.

Good luck - I don't think you can make a bad decision here.

18 January 2012, 06:38

CCMDoc

Looks like Subsailor74 posted as I was typing this and seems we have both said the same thing.

18 January 2012, 06:51

Biebs

Great minds think alike???

18 January 2012, 06:58

Snowwolfe

Own a Searcy 450 NE. Very accurate rifle and fits me like a glove even though I was not measured for it. Just completed the measuring sheet on Butch's web site and it was built perfectly.
Supplied the same measurements to VC when it was being built and it came in with the comb to high. Rifle looked fantastic but was returned because it was not regulated correctly. You can search the archives if you want more information as I'll not get into a verbal debate about it anymore.

Within a year or two I plan on ordering a Searcy 500 NE when my funds permit or that lost Uncle writes me into his will.

18 January 2012, 12:36

Todd Williams

The only satisfactory answer of course is to get both!

18 January 2012, 16:41

460 wby shooter

CCMDOC if I am ever out that way I will certainly take you up on that offer, I would love to shoot a 600 nitro.

18 January 2012, 19:29

505ED

I owed a 577 Searcy. It was a fine rifle--and it shot very accurate. I have looked at a number of VC guns--they look very nice. It would be a toss up.

Although if I had the scratch I'd get Butch to build me a rising-bite. Looked at in in Dallas that would be my pick.

Ed

18 January 2012, 19:47

Biebs

Ed, Butch tried to get you to "bite" on his Rising Bite? :-)

18 January 2012, 20:00

700 nitro

my bet would be on the VC searcy rifle is amercian as such it wont hold value as good as a british double rifle also i hope you dont want a rifle over 577 becuase sercy is set up a production shop if you order a gun over 577 say like my 700 nitro he has to stop production make your action and then "YOU"pay for his loss in production by the fact he chrages 80,000 for a 700 nitro now there is absolutly no need to chrge this kind of money for a double rifle he told him self and right from his lips and i quote"id be perfectly happy never making another rifle over 577 becuase it causes me to lose production and i have to change set ups" well thats fine

butch is a great guy and stands behind his product but your money is better spent on a companys rifles that will hold value and the makers do i learned the hard way with my 700 nitro american guns do not hold value at all i under stand all makers charge extra for there bigger guns but there is a difference between extra and then gouging the living fuck out ya same gose for holland and holland iv seen better guns come out of heym i dont want a fuckin art peice i want a working rifle i can hunt with

and the fact that with 2 doubles rifles of his i had a firing pin break,accidently discharge,rust came on my 500 nitro berrals it came shipped to me in a gun stock no padding,the 700 nitro came with no ejectors(was ordered with them)but because it was supposeldy to hard to make springs to get the shells to eject the action steel was soft and scratched very easy both rifles had to be babyed to prevent marks 500 and 700 nitro and the forarm on my 700 came loose and needed to be sent back for retightening right fromthe start just awsome after speending over 50,000$ and thats is why i wont buy a searcy rifle hes a nice man but i hope the quality of his rifle has improved to warrent the increase in price.

and i know vc is not brittish but it hold more value than any american gun

18 January 2012, 20:09

Biebs

A VC is not a British rifle.

18 January 2012, 20:23

Dave Bush

quote:
Originally posted by 700 nitro:
my bet would be on the VC searcy rifle is amercian as such it wont hold value as good as a british double rifle also i hope you dont want a rifle over 577 becuase sercy is set up a production shop if you order a gun over 577 say like my 700 nitro he has to stop production make your action and then "YOU"pay for his loss in production by the fact he chrages 80,000 for a 700 nitro now there is absolutly no need to chrge this kind of money for a double rifle he told him self and right from his lips and i quote"id be perfectly happy never aking another rifle over 577 becuase it causes me to lose production and i have to change set ups" well thats fine ill spend my money at a rifle maker that "WANTS" TO BUILD rifles and not charge 80,000 for a base rifle and my first 9 born children.....just becuae aman dosnt wanna take down his "production set up"

butch is a great guy and stands behind his product but your money is better spent on a companys rifles that will hold value and the makers do i learned the hard way with my 700 nitro american guns do not hold value at all i under stand all makers charge extra for there bigger guns but there is a difference between extra and then gouging the living fuck out ya same gose for holland and holland iv seen better guns come out of heym i dont want a fuckin art peice i want a working rifle i can hunt with

and the fact that with 2 doubles rifles of his i had a firing pin break,accidently discharge,rust came on my 500 nitro berrals it came shipped to me in a gun stock no padding,the 700 nitro came with no ejectors(was ordered with them)but because it was supposeldy to hard to make springs to get the shells to eject the action steel was soft and scratched very easy both rifles had to be babyed to prevent marks 500 and 700 nitro and the forarm on my 700 came loose and needed to be sent back for retightening right fromthe start just awsome after speending over 50,000$ and thats is why i wont buy a searcy rifle hes a nice man but i hope the quality of his rifle has improved to warrent the increase in price.

This is just so much bsflag

Searcy makes a great double and so does Verney-Carron which is built in France, not England. Both guns hold there value quite well.

P.S. 700 Nitro, don't they teach punctuation up there in British Columbia?

18 January 2012, 20:48

700 nitro

lol you dont like what i had to say about his rifles so youll attack my punctuation are you fucking 12? keep trolling

searcy makes a great gun im just saying id rather spend "my" money else where as to where you spend yours i dont care.and i got a grand toatle of 30,000 grand wich is a drop 10k in price from what i got it for the people simply kept asking me if it was anything but american once they found out they were like meh and went on to other things it was the hardest rifle i ever tryed to sell i forgot tho this forum comprised mostly of americans wont tolerate any bad comments against a american gun manfucture. its ok i forgive you.

ps heres some commas and periodes in case i forget to put them in the proper place ..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,...,..,..,

18 January 2012, 21:12

Peter

If we can forget the pissing contest for a minute, a valid point has been raised, has it not? An American manufacturer is fine if you live in the USA, but suppose you live in Europe, Africa or Australia. We do have posters from those countries who post on this site. So the question becomes, what service facilities do the two proposed manufacturers have in those locations?
Peter.

18 January 2012, 21:18

surestrike

700,

I have to think that the decrease in value on your .700 might have more to do with the oddity and undesirability of the caliber you choose your Searcy in than the make.

There is NO DOUBT that a classic British double is a better investment from a monetary value standpoint than a Searcy. But from a working rifle standpoint the Searcy and the VC provide a good workable rifle at a price that is affordable to a wider customer base.

18 January 2012, 21:44

Todd Williams

I own a Merkel. Not an American made gun but a good solid, reliable, gun that I also consider to be attractive, even with the less than artistic animal scenes. The resale value on that gun would be nowhere near what I paid for it. But I don't purchase guns to resell. I purchase them to use, keep, and I'll pass them on to my kids. Point is that being a Non-American vs American gun is really not a valid basis on which to judge resale value. I wonder what the value of a Canadian made double would be? Are there any Canadian double makers? I'm not talking about shotgun conversions!

I will be handing Butch a check to commission a new double rifle when I see him in Vegas. I've been looking at his rifles for awhile. I haven't seen any real "great bargins" on the used market for his guns. They seem to me to be holding their value nicely. That's not to take away from the VC as I plan to commission a new VC before the year ends as well. I like them both. I just think you are wrong on the value of Butch's guns.

It sounds to me like you had him build a gun for which demand is lacking; a 700NE. It is not an issue of who made it so much as it is a statement of machismo in having the largest NE caliber available. Most mere mortals are just not interested in having the biggest and baddest instead of a weapon that has practical value. If you were that concerned with the price you paid for the weapon from Butch, why did you commission the build in the first place?

Concerning the firing pins, you yourself stated that Butch stands behind what he builds and sells. No one can provide an absolute guarantee against breakage from time to time. What one can do is stand behind the product and repair or replace anything that breaks or is defective. If he did so, which you seem to indicate, then what's the problem?

Your punctuation usage, or non-usage, is something that is popular with kids today. I know as my two boys do the same thing. It's trendy so I wouldn't worry so much about that as much as I would about not being able to make your point without vulgarities. It's fine to have a different opinion of things as that is what stimulates debate. But there is really no need to be a jerk about it, don't you agree?

Concerning the preference of VC while slamming Searcy, you wouldn't happen to be "French Canadian" now would you? Just so you know, I like the French guns also as I have a nice little Chapuis.

18 January 2012, 21:48

Dave Bush

quote:
Originally posted by 700 nitro:
lol you dont like what i had to say about his rifles so youll attack my punctuation are you fucking 12? keep trolling

searcy makes a great gun im just saying id rather spend "my" money else where as to where you spend yours i dont care.and i got a grand toatle of 30,000 grand wich is a drop 10k in price from what i got it for the people simply kept asking me if it was anything but american once they found out they were like meh and went on to other things it was the hardest rifle i ever tryed to sell i forgot tho this forum comprised mostly of americans wont tolerate any bad comments against a american gun manfucture. its ok i forgive you.

ps heres some commas and periodes in case i forget to put them in the proper place ..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,...,..,..,

No, I'm not twelve but you are a moron. I would suggest you lurk rather than post for awhile longer so you can get a better feel for the other guys who post here.

18 January 2012, 21:58

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by 460 wby shooter:
Which one would you buy and why?

Both are good rifles but for me personally I'd rather have the Searcy field grade with up graded wood, and the Searcy name in gold case colored, like the one below.

18 January 2012, 22:05

Biebs

Mac, nice piece...that one has your name all over it.

18 January 2012, 22:11

subsailor74

It is actually my rifle, and Butch promised me he would have it available for fondling at SCI.

18 January 2012, 22:21

Biebs

Sub, VERY nice build...congrats. What caliber?

18 January 2012, 22:29

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by subsailor74:
It is actually my rifle, and Butch promised me he would have it available for fondling at SCI.

And that is the exact model I am requesting with the addition of "tear drops" in 450/400.

18 January 2012, 22:45

subsailor74

Biebs - it is a .500NE.

Todd - I own a Searcy Classic in 450/400 that looks like this rifle as well. It has the color case / name in gold look with classic engraving and teardrops, but the wood is not as nice. Like all my Searcy rifles, both of these are real "shooters".

18 January 2012, 22:48

700 nitro

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I own a Merkel. Not an American made gun but a good solid, reliable, gun that I also consider to be attractive, even with the less than artistic animal scenes. The resale value on that gun would be nowhere near what I paid for it. But I don't purchase guns to resell. I purchase them to use, keep, and I'll pass them on to my kids. Point is that being a Non-American vs American gun is really not a valid basis on which to judge resale value. I wonder what the value of a Canadian made double would be? Are there any Canadian double makers? I'm not talking about shotgun conversions!

I will be handing Butch a check to commission a new double rifle when I see him in Vegas. I've been looking at his rifles for awhile. I haven't seen any real "great bargins" on the used market for his guns. They seem to me to be holding their value nicely. That's not to take away from the VC as I plan to commission a new VC before the year ends as well. I like them both. I just think you are wrong on the value of Butch's guns.

It sounds to me like you had him build a gun for which demand is lacking; a 700NE. It is not an issue of who made it so much as it is a statement of machismo in having the largest NE caliber available. Most mere mortals are just not interested in having the biggest and baddest instead of a weapon that has practical value. If you were that concerned with the price you paid for the weapon from Butch, why did you commission the build in the first place?

Concerning the firing pins, you yourself stated that Butch stands behind what he builds and sells. No one can provide an absolute guarantee against breakage from time to time. What one can do is stand behind the product and repair or replace anything that breaks or is defective. If he did so, which you seem to indicate, then what's the problem?

Your punctuation usage, or non-usage, is something that is popular with kids today. I know as my two boys do the same thing. It's trendy so I wouldn't worry so much about that as much as I would about not being able to make your point without vulgarities. It's fine to have a different opinion of things as that is what stimulates debate. But there is really no need to be a jerk about it, don't you agree?

Concerning the preference of VC while slamming Searcy, you wouldn't happen to be "French Canadian" now would you? Just so you know, I like the French guns also as I have a nice little Chapuis.

sorry for the few f bombs ill clean that up.... im not french im half candian/half euro norwegien butch makes a fine rifle im agreeing there and you are right we are all entitled to our opionions even dave bush the guys that has for the second time in a row called me a name and i quote "a moron" when i havnt called him any thing this man needs to maybe think a bit more befor he says anything else take some of your owen advise lerk here some more befor posting.... your oftly brave calling me names with that from the protection behind your keyboard.you nothing more than a old key board warrior keep trolling...

now back to the original topic starters question which is why were here searcy makes a fine gun i find value else where if you so chose to buy his guns go for it there not that bad but better can be had else where for a comparative price...

and in case i forgot heres some commas and periodes for the grammer nazi's .,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,

18 January 2012, 23:02

460 wby shooter

Thanks all for your advice, remember we all love the double rifle. Their is no right or wrong answers here, just pride in the guns we have come to love (I hope to find my love next year)

18 January 2012, 23:30

Biebs

quote:
Biebs - it is a .500NE.

But of course...is there any other??? :-)

19 January 2012, 02:12

Mike Brooks

quote:
Originally posted by Biebs:
But of course...is there any other??? :-)

Uhhh Yes Remember back from the dim recesses of your mind a 450 Searcy?

19 January 2012, 02:32

Biebs

Yes, I see Snowwolf has one now....was that mine?

19 January 2012, 02:49

Mike Brooks

Not only no but Hell NO!!!! His is set for holding onto the wrong side.

19 January 2012, 03:21

Biebs

Yes, that was a beauty. Must look out of place when that old fart is holding it (don't tell him I said that!!!).

:-)

19 January 2012, 03:36

Mike Brooks

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! LOL

19 January 2012, 03:36

jeffeosso

me? searcy, without a doubt .. likly the best shooting doubles on the market, fantastic warranty, and will be made to your fitment and weight specifications ...

also, i consider Butch a friend

19 January 2012, 04:06

jorge

Look at them in person and pick the one you like best. I'll echo what Doc said only I'll add I have shot Searcys (JudgeG's 470 and 450NE). I'm extremely happy with my VC,form, fit (I was actually fitted in person and not through the mail) and function were perfect and so was the regulation-regardless of what was said. jorge

19 January 2012, 20:57

gsarria

I haven’t heard anything but good things about Searcy, but I sent several emails and PM to Searcy and never got a reply from him. All my emails and PM went unanswered.
On the other hand Ken from Kebco has been a pleasure to deal with. This is my first double rifle and I had a lot of questions and doubts. He’s been always very patient and responsive.
I bought a VC 450/400 from Ken which should be arriving Ago/Sept and so far I'm very pleased with everything.

20 January 2012, 00:36

Tim Carney

Gather from the SCI website that the Searcy booth at Las Vegas is #3023. Would thank anyone who wanders by (subsailor?) to report on what should be two left-handed sxs rising bite rifles. The one in .375 flanged is mine... Wish I could be there.

Regards, Tim

20 January 2012, 01:48

Atkinson

I have owned a number of Searcys and more than anything else they shoot little tiny groups..I don't like the term "minute of grapefruit", because I may need to shoot something in the eye and "minute of eye" is where all my Searcys shot. I can't imagine shooting at a charging Lion or buffalo with a gun that shot a grapefruit size group, that does not instill confidence in me.

With all respect I can't imagine packing a 700 N.E. around all day in the hot sun! or being able to mount it in a hurry to shoot something after that trek, the when I pulled the trigger, having to get PH, tracker, and water boy together to pull my thumb out of my nose!!

Thats one big muther!! I would love to see an elephant shot in the heart with one and see how many tracks he makes..

20 January 2012, 07:19

700 nitro

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
I have owned a number of Searcys and more than anything else they shoot little tiny groups..I don't like the term "minute of grapefruit", because I may need to shoot something in the eye and "minute of eye" is where all my Searcys shot. I can't imagine shooting at a charging Lion or buffalo with a gun that shot a grapefruit size group, that does not instill confidence in me.

With all respect I can't imagine packing a 700 N.E. around all day in the hot sun! or being able to mount it in a hurry to shoot something after that trek, the when I pulled the trigger, having to get PH, tracker, and water boy together to pull my thumb out of my nose!! Thats one big muther!! I would love to see an elephant shot in the heart with one and see how many tracks he makes..

trust me anything i shot with the 700 nitro didnt go very far altho i liked the double rifle idea i think id rather prefer the 700 nitro as a single shot in a falling block style action if any 1 knows a rifle smith that will take such a project on let me know.