Hey guys
For all the guys really mashing Sabbatti, specifically, and other "affordable" doubles, generally, Id just like to get it off my chest and say GET OVER IT. Its unrealistic to ask a Yugo to act like a Mercedes. Yugos are great, but they are what they are. Sabbatti is like a Pro-Line boat. Its perfectly functional given its cost and target demo graphic. Ive had 2 Pro-lines and I own a Sabbatti 45-70 double. Is it a Merkel or a Searcy or whatever? NO; its not, but I knew that when I bought it. Im not trying to be insulting, but, if your unhappy with your purchase, then, ultimately, thats on you. There are those of us that bought that product, understanding what it is and are very happy with it, given the alternatives available in given calibers and price ranges. Anyway, sorry. Just tired of what I perceive product bashing

Some of the product bashing is warranted.

I like them, just don't like some of the shoddy practices used in the making of some of them.

Would you accept the same from such illustrious US companies as Remington, Weatherby, Winchester, Savage, Dary Echol's customs, Searcy if they ground the crowns of (some of) the guns before shipping ?

I somehow doubt it.

They set the bar low which is fine, but they then failed to achieve it.

.

If you are going after Dangerous game, do you really want to use a marginal rifle? I'll take a CZ 550 over a low quality double anyday.

For North America, my Chapuis 9.3x74R will serve me well whether I stumble upon a bear or boar in the field.

For a range toy, a cheap Rusian/Remington 45-70 will do just fine but I'll still enjoy my CZ 550 American in 9.3x62.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
Some of the product bashing is warranted.

I like them, just don't like some of the shoddy practices used in the making of some of them.

Would you accept the same from such illustrious US companies as Remington, Weatherby, Winchester, Savage, Dary Echol's customs, Searcy if they ground the crowns of (some of) the guns before shipping ?

I somehow doubt it.

They set the bar low which is fine, but they then failed to achieve it.

.

Agreed.

I have never bashed a Sabbatti, and most of the folks that I've seen on the net have not bashed them either. I used to say any good double bought right you will be able to get you money back(or at least 90% back. I dont think that with the Sabbatti. You spend 5500 and if you have to sell it--maybe extract 3000 at best. If you want one! I say go for it! You can spend YOUR money anyway you want! If I were spending my money and my budget was $5500. I'd buy a smaller bore to start with like a 9.3x74 Chapuis/VC. Or save a few more years and get a proper built Merkel, VC, or K-gun.

I was offered a 470 K-gun just 2 days ago for 7800. I'd take that gun every day and twice on Sunday over a Sabatti. No double dribble here, I just think that 5,500 is alot of money to spend on a gun that 1. will not hold its full value (maybe it will--I've been wrong before--but I'd take the bet now) 2. May have barrel problems at a later date--or regulation problems--hey when you grind on things who knows.

I think its great that Sabbatti is offering a double at that price point--and hate to say if they had a 577 at 5500 I might even buy one (for a fun stunt gun. In the field I'll take my chances with my FAMARS, or a Merkel, K-gun, Searcy...ect...

Have fun shopping for your Sabbatti!

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by SESOLINC:
Yugos are great, but they are what they are.

Really? Have you driven a Yugo?

For you guys that are looking at a Sabbatti, take a look in the Classifieds. Sam Rose has a really nice Chapuis listed with upgraded wood for only $7250. Great gun at a great price.

Ran over a deer with my Yugo Sunday morning.

http://i1014.photobucket.com/a...losi/GunStuff290.jpg

Hay John:
I like your Yugo Was it 45-70?



Good hunting/shooting and God:s best.

Malek

9.3x74

Thanks

Very nice....
I am thinking about getting one my self, in the same caliber. In matter of fact I had them set it aside while I waiting for some answers from their main guy at the Gun library. This will be my theird Yugo from them.



Good hunting/shooting God's best

Malek

My experience has been good. I almost bought Foxhound's 450/400 that was listed in the classified. In fact we had a deal pretty much worked out but the day I decided to go for it Cabelas called first and had charged my CC for the 9.3 so I opted out on the 450/400.

I'm not sure who ended up with it but it was a good deal and I regret that I let it go.

Anyway, no dremel regulation on mine and it shoots good with the Hornady factory ammo. The whole "controversy" over these guns is a little silly. With a few exceptions, all the bitching is from people that don't own them.

After reading these "conversations" the thought that comes to mind is, "If it looks to good to be true...it probably is!" You purchased a gun that very obviously was priced under the going rate guns.

Did you HONESTLY THINK you were getting a gun on par with the quality and workmanship of a gun twice the price or for that matter even half again that price i.e. Merkel--in some cases.

As politely as I can say it you didn't do your homework, PERIOD. To bring high quality guns into this conversation does not make good sense that's exactly why they cost MUCH MORE because they don't cut corners. Did you guys just think Cabelas and Sabatti needed new FRIENDS so they went to all the same work, Merkel, VC, Searcy etc. are putting in their guns and just decided to not make the profit margin they could.

Then take it back and get whatever satisfaction you can from Cabelas or JUST TAKE IT OUT AND SHOOT IT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! Isn't that what you bought it for?

I honestly thought I was getting a rifle that would shoot to regulation in a caliber that I wanted at a price that I was willing to pay.

I never expected it to be anything other than what it is.

I own a manufacturing company so I'm aware of how profit margins work(part of my homework back in my school days). Sometimes they are really big and some times they are very small. I have no idea what the typical profit margin is on a double rifle or if all manufactures have the same margins.

I don't want to take it back and I have been shooting it. I killed a little deer with it yesterday and my post was a thinly veiled brag. My apologies, I had forgotten just how serious the internet can be.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
For you guys that are looking at a Sabbatti, take a look in the Classifieds. Sam Rose has a really nice Chapuis listed with upgraded wood for only $7250. Great gun at a great price.

+1

I saw that rifle in the classifieds. Ten times the gun a Sabatti is at not much more money and a gun that will only appreciate in value.

quote:

I honestly thought I was getting a rifle that would shoot to regulation in a caliber that I wanted at a price that I was willing to pay.

I never expected it to be anything other than what it is.

I own a manufacturing company so I'm aware of how profit margins work(part of my homework back in my school days). Sometimes they are really big and some times they are very small. I have no idea what the typical profit margin is on a double rifle or if all manufactures have the same margins.

I don't want to take it back and I have been shooting it. I killed a little deer with it yesterday and my post was a thinly veiled brag. My apologies, I had forgotten just how serious the internet can be.

+1

Hey John:
Thank you for sharing your expriance "thinly veild brag" I hope you would have maney maney expriances similer to it in the future, using your Yugo so you can brag about them
I bet you enjoyed your experiance a lot, at the same time your bank account enjoyed the savings.

I AM LOOKING FORWORD TO ENJUOY MINE. GOD WILLING

Good hunting/shooting and God's best.

Malek

quote:

Originally posted by malek:

I AM LOOKING FORWORD TO ENJUOY MINE. GOD WILLING

Malek

Malek

I love your comment, "GOD WILLING"

Only a Sabatti owner would need to say that


(Sorry, I couldn't resist )

.

quote:

Originally posted by malek:

I AM LOOKING FORWORD TO ENJUOY MINE. GOD WILLING

Malek



Malek

I love your comment, "GOD WILLING"

Only a Sabatti owner would need to say that


(Sorry, I couldn't resist )

500N

That was a good one. Finaly some body got it.

In all seriousness in my line of work, you don't know what to expect next. Now you are here next minute, God knows where you will be up there or down yonder. in both cases all the accumulation of wealth, fine art, expensive toys and yes vintage english doubles will be left behind.

So I say God willing, Enjoy what you have while you have it and able to enjoy it.

quote:

Malek

I love your comment, "GOD WILLING"

Only a Sabatti owner would need to say that


(Sorry, I couldn't resist )

OK, gotta admit that's funny

Guys, I understand some wanting to bring this issue to the attention of others or all who may be interested in the information presented.

I still think that had this not been brought to light there would be several guys who would still be happy with their Sabatti. It is still what it is a pretty well made double rifle for the money. They just use a method, not endorced by all, to regulate the barrels that does have a specific consequence that's not agreeable to all.

We all learn as we go through life, believe me I learned some double rifle "lessons" as I was "growing up" with doubles and I didn't start until I was 47.

Don't let this destroy the fun you can have with the gun and the overall joy of having a double gun. Go enjoy it as you intended when you purchased the gun. You know you can purchase Hornady ammo and shoot it. If you want to reload there is no end to the number of very knowledgeable people here to help you.

If you just can't get over the grief of the situation take the gun back get it out of your life and move on. But I still maintain you'll be best served by shooting it cuz they are just a lot of fun!

Take the high road with the glass half full!

Good Shooting & Best Regards,

quote:

Guys, I understand some wanting to bring this issue to the attention of others or all who may be interested in the information presented.

I still think that had this not been brought to light there would be several guys who would still be happy with their Sabatti. It is still what it is a pretty well made double rifle for the money. They just use a method, not endorced by all, to regulate the barrels that does have a specific consequence that's not agreeable to all.

We all learn as we go through life, believe me I learned some double rifle "lessons" as I was "growing up" with doubles and I didn't start until I was 47.

Don't let this destroy the fun you can have with the gun and the overall joy of having a double gun. Go enjoy it as you intended when you purchased the gun. You know you can purchase Hornady ammo and shoot it. If you want to reload there is no end to the number of very knowledgeable people here to help you.

If you just can't get over the grief of the situation take the gun back get it out of your life and move on. But I still maintain you'll be best served by shooting it cuz they are just a lot of fun!

Take the high road with the glass half full!

Good Shooting & Best Regards,

quote:

I am frankly tired of all this whining. If you have a Sabatti and like it, like I do, great. If you got a Sabatti and don't like it, give it back to Cabelas. If you want a Sabatti; buy one and if it doesn't shoot, give it back. No one is out anything and everyone seems to be happy. But don't cry about the method they are regulated; as long as they are, who cares? If you don't like that method, again, don't buy one. This is a luxury, recreational item, and is sold in a free market economy. Just shoot and have fun; don't fret over such trivia; soon enough you will be dead and it won't matter anyway.

Two very good posts! Thanks.

quote:

I still think that had this not been brought to light there would be several guys who would still be happy with their Sabatti.

This is a very telling sentence.

I am sure enjoying mine.

Still loving mine, and, other than their chosen method of regulation, thats the only complaint I hear about them.

Could someone please give me a FACTUAL instance of inferior parts, substandard metallurgy, etc.

I read of the occasional ejector issues but those are posted about all brands.

AR's favorite double smith JJ has looked one over and given it a nod of approval.

(This line was removed due to inaccurate internet info)

Obviously hundreds have been sold and we are beating this horse to death over a few that the owners were dissatisfied with and they all received a full refund!

I would never be so bold as to point out what a piece of &*%#$ your merk, K, chap, VC etc. is compared to my classic T. Bland .577.

Why, because they are all fine rifles in their own right.

Can't we all just get along?

JCS: The only factual turd in the punchbowl is the shoddy regulation by dremel on some rifles. Some knowledgeable gunsmiths including JJ said they are well-made rifles using real V springs and at least in mine, excellent wood to metal fitting, etc. One poster said it best, had Cabelas put an 9K price tag on these rifles we wouldn'e be having half of these discussions that come mostly from folks who don't even own one or even handled same. And I'm still waiting for a Merkel target that bests mine...

well: i dont own one but will in the near future its what i can afford and quite frankly i never seeked approval in any purchase i have made whether gun car or boat it will serve me just as well as the finest british double and i think thats the long and the short of it.jmoa

quote:

Originally posted by JCS271:
Still loving mine, and, other than their chosen method of regulation, thats the only complaint I hear about them.

Could someone please give me a FACTUAL instance of inferior parts, substandard metallurgy, etc.

I read of the occasional ejector issues but those are posted about all brands.

AR's favorite double smith JJ has looked one over and given it a nod of approval and has told others that he even offers this type of inexpensive regulation in his shop.

Obviously hundreds have been sold and we are beating this horse to death over a few that the owners were dissatisfied with and they all received a full refund!

I would never be so bold as to point out what a piece of &*%#$ your merk, K, chap, VC etc. is compared to my classic T. Bland .577.

Why, because they are all fine rifles in their own right.

Can't we all just get along?

Mine was the very first Sabatti JJ had seen and after working on it for me, he did say he had no problems with it. I have since had to return it to Cabela's for a refund due to more than one problem. First, it wouldn't shoot to my DG standards and then it broke an ejector after only 25 rounds.

Two things I'd like to make note of:

1. JJ asked me last week to post that if anyone says he would do a "dremel" regulation, that he would NOT ever and that saying so is "BULLSHIT". He repeated the word three times.

2. Cabela's has been superb in trying to make those with problem Sabattis happy. Repair, exchange or refund, Cabela's is doing the right thing for its' customers. for the Reno Gun Library Mgr, Ryan Newton, who did whatever I asked and was a complete professional and a pleasure to deal with.

I am truely sorry the Sabatti didn't work out for me; I wanted it to.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by JCS271:

Obviously hundreds have been sold and we are beating this horse to death over a few that the owners were dissatisfied with and they all received a full refund!

Two things I'd like to make note of:

1. JJ asked me last week to post that if anyone says he would do a "dremel" regulation, that he would NOT ever and that saying so is "BULLSHIT". He repeated the word three times.

I did a double take when I read JCS's post - and then thought no way would he offer that when he can do it the proper way.


Mike
Good to hear about Cabelas. I am sorry it didn't work out for you as well.
After the Remington / Baikal sagas, we do need a low cost DR.

.

500N-

Thanks. I wonder how much more it would actually cost for Sabatti to regulate their big bore DRs correctly? I'd really like to know, if somebody could provide a reasonable guess, given Italian labor costs? I would have paid another $500 to have it done correctly and know others feel likewise.

My hunting partner put 17 rounds through his on Sunday. Barrels were crossing and 8" apart at 50 yards. He is sending his back for a refund.

Yes, I would say about that.

We have a guy here in Aust who re regulates DR's,
I think he is between $500 and $800.

So in some ways doing a new gun would be easier and they could prep
a whole load of guns at once and although the regulation can't be done
on a production line, at least a whole heap of things can be done in sequence.

JJ charges 700 dollars plus forty rounds of ammo.

I don't know if this is fact ,but someone posted that the sab were brazied. If that is so it would most likely not be able to be re-regulated cheeply or at at all.

JD

I had JJ regulate a Winchester O/U 7MM for me last summer. It was definitely silver soldered.
JJ pointed this out to me before doing the work and said that he had to mill out enough of the solder from between the barrels to enable squeezing them closer. My rifle was shooting apart, not crossing.

I am now shooting 4 shot groups of approx 1 1/4" at 75 yds using factory ammo, as opposed to 7" groups pre-JJ. I hope to do better with handloads.

I can see a round spot of duller colored solder (I assume soft solder) at the muzzle between the tubes where he removed the hard solder. As I recall he charged $80 or $100 more than if it was a soft soldered barrel set but I now have a useful small bore.

As an aside,this rifle is chambered in 7x57 Mauser. I'm thinking of milling a rim recess to convert it to 7x57R. I hate doubles in rimless calibers. Anyone know of any reason why I shouldn't do this?
Thanks.

quote:

As an aside,this rifle is chambered in 7x57 Mauser. I'm thinking of milling a rim recess to convert it to 7x57R. I hate doubles in rimless calibers. Anyone know of any reason why I shouldn't do this?

If it hasn't failed in any way, I would leave it as is.

"1. JJ asked me last week to post that if anyone says he would do a "dremel" regulation, that he would NOT ever and that saying so is "BULLSHIT". He repeated the word three times."

Hey, my bust on that quote/info in my earlier post. I actually got that straight from another post here on AR that supposedly came from the man himself.

I will be even more diligent than usual in confirming much of the stuff I read here before I pass it along as gospel.

Sorry!

quote:

9K price tag on these rifles we wouldn'e be having half of these discussions that come mostly from folks who don't even own one or even handled same.

There is some truth to the above statement!

quote:

Originally posted by JCS271:
I will be even more diligent than usual in confirming much of the stuff I read here before I pass it along as gospel.

The problem is, that confirming internet info can be hard to do. There is no shortage of BS on the net, and anyone who looks like exposing it for what it is, even by accident, will likely get crucified for their trouble!
I'm wary of "internet information" from posters who refuse to provide any evidence to support their "claims to fame".

On the other side of the coin there are plenty of posters with genuine experience and knowledge, who provide good usefull information with no BS.

quote:

Originally posted by MACD:
I had JJ regulate a Winchester O/U 7MM for me last summer. It was definitely silver soldered.
JJ pointed this out to me before doing the work and said that he had to mill out enough of the solder from between the barrels to enable squeezing them closer. My rifle was shooting apart, not crossing.

I am now shooting 4 shot groups of approx 1 1/4" at 75 yds using factory ammo, as opposed to 7" groups pre-JJ. I hope to do better with handloads.

I can see a round spot of duller colored solder (I assume soft solder) at the muzzle between the tubes where he removed the hard solder. As I recall he charged $80 or $100 more than if it was a soft soldered barrel set but I now have a useful small bore.

As an aside,this rifle is chambered in 7x57 Mauser. I'm thinking of milling a rim recess to convert it to 7x57R. I hate doubles in rimless calibers. Anyone know of any reason why I shouldn't do this?
Thanks.

Sounds like JJ did a nice job on the regulation. I have one of these rifles in 7x65R which I re-regulated quite some time back, it also shoots well, and I use it for wild pigs here.
Regarding whether you can convert yours to rimless, I would run the question by JJ and see what he thinks. I wouldn't expect the conversion to cause any major worries, but then I don't have a set of rimless extractor bodies to compare with my rimmed set.

quote:

Originally posted by JCS271:
"1. JJ asked me last week to post that if anyone says he would do a "dremel" regulation, that he would NOT ever and that saying so is "BULLSHIT". He repeated the word three times."

Hey, my bust on that quote/info in my earlier post. I actually got that straight from another post here on AR that supposedly came from the man himself.

I will be even more diligent than usual in confirming much of the stuff I read here before I pass it along as gospel.

Sorry!

Add me to the list of folk who made the mistake of repeating someone else's attribution.

Good that Mike (Lionhunter) clarified that mistake.

EAA-CABELAS-SABATTI ARE ALL FULL OF IT.i was the first one to order rifles in 2009 the first hour of the show have a bill of sale but will never see a rifle,ordered a 600 glad i spent the money and got doc's what a beautiful gun.so if eaa wont stand behind its contract do you think their warranty is any good dont hold your breath.like my daddy said oats are always cheaper once they have been through the horse

Can anybody translate for me? English is my second language..

I think back when sab first made it public they where going to produce double rifles it included the 600 nitro....They pulled the 577 and 600 they never got made so he is sour ????