As I’m sure you are aware, Bill Jones has a collection of historical double rifles that to my knowledge beyond compare.

Any one else hear or see if huge collections of double rifles in private hands?

The largest collection I knew was Bob Peterson of Peterson Publishing.

I know the big auction houses were selling off a bunch of his collection.

One individual in the US has a collection of in the region of 800 unfired (except for regulation) new British doubles.

A mate of mine in Oz has a collection of about 400 vintage doubles, and that's not counting the other stuff. There's another, even bigger collection of doubles in Australia, as well as one of the finest (if not the finest) collection of Oberndorf Mausers there as well.

quote:

Originally posted by jvw375:
One individual in the US has a collection of in the region of 800 unfired (except for regulation) new British doubles.
...

That must be some gun room for sure.

I don’t understand the mass collecting. Seems to be more one-upmanship than anything.

Same goes for things like guitars. The fact is, at the end of the day, everything owned will be sold or thrown away.

When those guys die, their estate often calls the Rock Island Auctions here; they are just rich guys who like to accumulate things; and because they can; be it cars, wives, guitars, Winchesters, DRs; whatever. When you are that wealthy, the money is no longer the driving concern; the mere greed of ownership, is.

Well, one can look at it as an investment for sure.

Also, personal enjoyment. I am not going to judge or critisize a guy for spending his own money.

If one were to go by philosophy of "you can't take it with you" then buying anything beside basic necessities does not make sense from real estate to cars etc. etc.. Might as well live in a "tiny house".

I do not think such collectors are into one-upmanship. I wouldn't call it greed either.

These people are not showing off, publicising and making a big hoohaa.

They have a right to their privacy, personal hobby, indulgence etc. it is their money.

I would love to be able to visit and see such collections.

JMHO

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I do not think such collectors are into one-upmanship. I wouldn't call it greed either.

These people are not showing off, publicising and making a big hoohaa.

They have a right to their privacy, personal hobby, indulgence etc. it is their money.

I would love to be able to visit and see such collections.

JMHO

Never said they didn’t have their rights. But at a certain level, collectors leave the normal world and enter into a space in which only a very few exist.

Don’t make the mistake of misinterpreting my next statement, but the stolen art/antiquities market is alive and well, and those who play the game never leave their vaults. Often collectors never actually meet, but in that world, every one know what everyone else has.

Having said that, I too, would love to handle some of these rifles/artifacts. Actually, of all the doubles out there, too on the list is Denys Finch Hatton’s Lancaster 450. If anyone know the person who owns it, I’d love an introduction. ;-)

If I was to wager a guess it is in the Bill Jones collection.

Some of the responses here really surprise me.

I would much rather some collector has hundreds than that even one is destroyed because nobody wants it?

Finch Hatton’s 450 was sold by Holt’s in 2009. I do not think Bill Jones bought it. John Orisman bought it in 2009. A gentleman by the name of Dr. James Hay bought it later, and took it hunting.

Here is his article from 2019 of that hunt.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk...0201/282308206246479


My adopted father always said, “Never complain or hate a man for doing what you wish you could do.” I speak only for myself in that regard.

Heym, what a great read. Thank you for posting that.
Larry

You are welcome. I was a junior in College when Holts started advertising the Finch Hatton rifle. I was saving for a wedding ring. I think Holts sold it for 80 or 88k, but I do not remember if that was US Dollars or Pounds Sterling.

I have been married 10 years as of today.

Collections like Bill's and others keep both treasures and the history they represent alive. More power to them!

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Collections like Bill's and others keep both treasures and the history they represent alive. More power to them!

And in the case of Bill Jones he actually takes some of them out hunting rather then hiding them in a safe.

I enjoyed seeing some of Bill Jones’s Rifles in the Boddington dvd. Classic rifles in their element!

Bill Jones and Safari Classics post Boddington did a DVD of Selous Rifles, Fletcher Jamison’s 500 Jeffrey, Raj double 416 Rigby, Elmer Keith’s 470 WR, and Hemmingway’s 577 all out hunting.

You can buy it at Safari Press.

quote:

Originally posted by Rockdoc:
I enjoyed seeing some of Bill Jones’s Rifles in the Boddington dvd. Classic rifles in their element!

I suspect they are friends no longer...

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Bill Jones and Safari Classics post Boddington did a DVD of Selous Rifles, Fletcher Jamison’s 500 Jeffrey, Raj double 416 Rigby, Elmer Keith’s 470 WR, and Hemmingway’s 577 all out hunting.

You can buy it at Safari Press.

Ok thank you.

He must have outbid me on Elmers 470!

The wealthy man's lament: "So much obsessive-compulsive disorder and so few double rifles !"

Ditto thanks for the link.

Nice to read that The Honourable Denys George Finch Hatton (1887-1931) had his 1911 vintage Charles Lancaster .475 NE DR re-double-barreled to .450 NE in 1928.
Smart man, and he had a way with the ladies too.
I thought that last part was funny.


.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

quote:

I suspect they are friends no longer...

I can promise you they are "friends no longer"!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Smart man, and he had a way with the ladies too.
I thought that last part was funny.

Well, he must have learnt something at Eton

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Rockdoc:
I enjoyed seeing some of Bill Jones’s Rifles in the Boddington dvd. Classic rifles in their element!

I suspect they are friends no longer...

I simply do not understand all this Boddington bashing! Reads like a recording of an old ladies gossip fest!
....................................... MacD37

Ah yes, one of the great pleasures in life. Putting someone on a pedestal then knocking them down.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Rockdoc:
I enjoyed seeing some of Bill Jones’s Rifles in the Boddington dvd. Classic rifles in their element!

I suspect they are friends no longer...

I simply do not understand all this Boddington bashing! Reads like a recording of an old ladies gossip fest!
....................................... MacD37

Bill Jones was stiffed 150K from CB's BK. Not gossip.

Many years ago I read an article in the DGJ about an English gun writer (?) buying Fynch-Hattan's rifle and then later finding a case with D F-H embossed on it. A perfect fit. I think he sold it for a big profit

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I do not think such collectors are into one-upmanship. I wouldn't call it greed either.

These people are not showing off, publicising and making a big hoohaa.

They have a right to their privacy, personal hobby, indulgence etc. it is their money.

I would love to be able to visit and see such collections.

JMHO

Naki,

I have disagreed in the past with your comments often but with the above I totally agree. You hit the nail on the head.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Many years ago I read an article in the DGJ about an English gun writer (?) buying Fynch-Hattan's rifle and then later finding a case with D F-H embossed on it. A perfect fit. I think he sold it for a big profit

John Ormistead originally bought the DFH case and later married the gun with the case. Here's an interview DFH Gun where John talks about it. The discussion starts at minute 28.

Ken

I remember going to Buckhorn Trading as a kid. Mr. Hodge was a good friend of my father. I recall seeing 3-4 barrel guns, best quality English. At the time, I really didn’t know or appreciate what I saw.

He was a good man.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
... Selous Rifles, Fletcher Jamison’s 500 Jeffrey, Raj double 416 Rigby, Elmer Keith’s 470 WR, and Hemmingway’s 577 all out hunting.

I get the mystique of these mens' rifles, but Hemmingway's and Keith's were second or third hand, as was Selby's 416 Rigby.
In fact, Keith's Westley may have been my uncle's rifle.
I have letters from Elmer pestering my uncle for a Westley double he owned. Just haven't found a letter describing the rifle thoroughly enough to say with certainty.
If I do, I will call it the "Floyd Hill Westley 470" Of course, he didn't buy it new either...

My point is that in some cases, the man elevates the gun, and some times the gun and man develop together - that's where the value is IMO.
I think Selby did that with his Rigby.
Hemmingway didn't do with his 577 anything that hundreds of other men did, except he was famous and wrote about it, and Elmer Keith owned probably hundreds of rifles in his day.

The 416 Rigby Bolt is not Selby. It is a very early magnum action seen in Safari Rifles dvd. Jones takes a Buffalo and Leopard with it.

The DVD/Film is callled: Historic Rifles: The Long Journey Home.

I know that, just saying that Selby's Rigby is in this category of rifles.

Gotcha.

The outcast rifle of these historic rifles in Hemingway’s 577. It was given to him, he rarely, if ever used it (I’ve read the buff he posed with was shot with his 06) and I honestly don’t think he even liked the thing. The 06 is another matter. That rifle he loved better than any of his wives I think...

I would guess that the Queen has a nice collection as well as other member of the Royal Family.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
The outcast rifle of these historic rifles in Hemingway’s 577. It was given to him, he rarely, if ever used it (I’ve read the buff he posed with was shot with his 06) and I honestly don’t think he even liked the thing. The 06 is another matter. That rifle he loved better than any of his wives I think...

I kind of got the idea he didn't like big doubles from his complaints about the .470 mentioned in Green Hills of Africa, which had a trigger pull like the last turn on a sardine can.

The only thing I recall about the .577 was he let some little guy fire it in Abercrombie & Fitch's basement range and the guy dropped it.

A few years ago a 470 owned by Philip Percival who was Hemingway’s PH was sold by Rock Island.

It was not marketed as the 470 used by Hemmingway, but I would bet it was. I do not know who bought it.

Did Papa not use the 577 to stop a rhino charge?

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
A few years ago a 470 owned by Philip Percival who was Hemingway’s PH was sold by Rock Island.

It was not marketed as the 470 used by Hemmingway, but I would bet it was. I do not know who bought it.

Did Papa not use the 577 to stop a rhino charge?

Not that I’ve ever read. As a matter of fact, very little (if any) of EHs stories on Africa get hairy.



I’d bet you are right on that 470 - it would be the rifle referred to in GHOA.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
The outcast rifle of these historic rifles in Hemingway’s 577. It was given to him, he rarely, if ever used it (I’ve read the buff he posed with was shot with his 06) and I honestly don’t think he even liked the thing. The 06 is another matter. That rifle he loved better than any of his wives I think...

I kind of got the idea he didn't like big doubles from his complaints about the .470 mentioned in Green Hills of Africa, which had a trigger pull like the last turn on a sardine can.

The only thing I recall about the .577 was he let some little guy fire it in Abercrombie & Fitch's basement range and the guy dropped it.

I honestly think it was a novelty for him. Just a toy. In Mary Hemingway’s book she talks about them shooting statues (if I remember right) with the 477. Obviously it was either a 470 or 577, but is place my bet it was the 577.

I knew a guy here in Idaho who ordered a 460 Weatherby for the sole purpose of shooting it off at New Years. “Here, shoot this!” Was about all the rifle was worth.