Okay, this is the question. What is the best double for you money??

Here's what I say:

1. Chapuis
2. Krieghoff
3. Merkel
4. Verney-Carron
5. Heym

I would have listed the field grade Searcy as 2nd but the field grade has been discontinued and the Searcy doubles can no longer be considered a "value". If you have a Searcy field grade, you have a great rifle for the money. For the money It's really hard the beat the Chapuis or a K-gun.

Now remember, this is not about what you think is the best rifle but what you think is the best value for your money.

I would add Heym to the list.

7kongoni:

Heym is a very fine rifle but at $16,500 for a PH, I don't see it as a value but they do retain their resale value so maybe your are right.

Hi Dave,

please look that you get for your money.

An example:
In the Heym PH is the ejector (and mutch more) included.
Add this to the other db and look at the price again.

And then see and feel the quality and accuracy of an Heym.
:-)

Best wishes.

Bock, II

Okay Doc, we'll add the Heym as #5.

Dave, I agree with your list 100% as well as the comments on the Searcy. I was hoping to have a PH built but at $20K for the classic, I'm out. I may try to find a used PH in a few months however as I really like his guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Dave, I agree with your list 100% as well as the comments on the Searcy. I was hoping to have a PH built but at $20K for the classic, I'm out. I may try to find a used PH in a few months however as I really like his guns.

Todd:

I have been kinda keeping an eye open for a used Heym PH as well. I think they are superb guns but not exactly value guns. More of a high end gun. I was so sorry to see Searcy discontinue the field grade but he has done this before. I think that Butch brings the field grade back when he needs orders.

Dave, PM sent.

If you mean function vs cost; doing a cost/benefit analysis, the Sabatti will win every time. "Best value" on luxury toys is always a highly subjective thing to most people. Too much emotion involved to get an unbiased analysis. Give the data to a non shooter and have them do the analysis. I can do a decision matrix for you based on the Ft Leavenworth model and make it show whatever result you want, as long as you "weight" certain variables the right way. Again, the question is too subjective to ever get a scientific result. So just go with opinions.

Blaser S2?
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
If you mean function vs cost; doing a cost/benefit analysis, the Sabatti will win every time. "Best value" on luxury toys is always a highly subjective thing to most people. Too much emotion involved to get an unbiased analysis. Give the data to a non shooter and have them do the analysis. I can do a decision matrix for you based on the Ft Leavenworth model and make it show whatever result you want, as long as you "weight" certain variables the right way. Again, the question is too subjective to ever get a scientific result. So just go with opinions.

Of course the criteria for best value must also include resale value. Where will the Sabatti line up on that one? I'm thinking dead last. But that's just me with my money.

Lots of guys have reported purchasing a $40K o $50K H&H or other English made DR, taking it on a hunt, then selling it for $5k more than they purchased it for. Now that's value. Sabatti will never do that.

Todd:

Got your PM and returned.

Actually, I mis-spoke; Baikal would win. Resale value is but one factor; initial cost must also factor equally or be weighted more so they potentially would cancel each other out. As I said, it depends on how you weight the criteria as to which one wins. Many factors will make up any true analysis; not just one.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Blaser S2?
Peter.

Peter:

I thought about the Blaser as well. You sure can buy them right. However, although I love mine, they are not everyone's cup of tea and you suffer on resale so I left it off. I don't plan on selling mine. Perhaps a trade on a new VC... ha!

Since it is the decision maker who determines the evaluation criteria in any problem solving scenario, for this DR question, it will be up to each one of us to make up our own matrix with the variables that are important to us. And things like "quality" will be judged subjectively . The outcome will be what each individual wants it to be; so there can be no answer to your initial question; what is the best value in a DR. As I said, too many opinions, not controlled by a rigorous problem solving procedure.

dpcd:

Give it a shot. Give us your list.

By the way, how do your like your 450/400 K-gun? I would have to put that one near the top of the list.

To answer the question properly it should be caliber specific, medium or big bores.

In 9,3x74R the Chapuis UGEX is the overwhelming favorite to me. Superb accuracy, not so nice high comb, and stiff but reasonably creep free triggers.

For the bigger bores (450-400 and up) can only comment on the one's I own(ed) and that includes Searcy field grade, VC, and Heym PH.

Searcy 450 NE. Stock fit me like a glove, rifle shoots great, easy to find regulation load. Fit and finish could be improved. Triggers are so so.

VC was a 450/400 and they used the same stock measurements supplied to Searcy but they built the rifle with to high of a comb. Wood, fit, finish was excellent. Triggers were a lot heavier than I requested. Sad to say the rifle was not regulated correctly and it was returned.

Heym PH 450/400 is a new addition. Yes it cost more than either the Searcy or the VC. Fit, finish, triggers, quality of wood are all better than any other double rifle I've owned. The little touches are nice such as the built in cut for the Docter Optic sight, intercepting sears, etc. Two trips to the range and the accuracy is excellent so far but would like to send 100 rounds down range before commenting further. Rifle has less felt recoil than my Chapuis 9,3x74R.

Best value for my money? Easy answer, Chapuis in the smaller calibers and Heym for the bigger stuff. If I ever buy a 500 NE (or any other bigger double) it will be a Heym PH.

Snowwolfe:

Great reply.

Yes, great reply, but since you placed the caveat on it, "for MY money" it is only academic for the rest of us. If one truly did a best value analysis on it, things might be different, again, depending on the eval criteria. Me, my list is, like everyone, tainted by intangibles and might not be fully in line with "best value". And I know how to do best value evaluations, having done them while working for TACOM at Rock Island. I love my K 450-400; extremely accurate (but a tad heavy) and recoil is so light that it is fun to shoot all you want in a sitting, un like some others where a few rounds is enough. My list is ONES I LiKE BEST; not best value for money. I want a Heym, but will have to wait. DG calibers: Krieghoff. Sabatti. Small cals; My Chapuis is fine, but there are things I don't like about it; mainly recoil due to the stock drop. I have fired Merkels; again too much stock drop and they seem kind of crude. (NO hate mail please). Never fired a Verny Carron. I have fired but not owned, several old English ones; of course they are great but cost is simply out of reach for most of us, Meaning me. My Alex Henry is just an old toy, and as for the Greifelt; yuck; made in 1924, not regulated at all, and crude German type engraving.

Snowwolfe,

I have to agree with you concerning the 9.3X74R Chapuis UGEX. That little rifle is a great value. One disagreement however is that the comb on mine is a bit too high for the iron sights. I have a Trijicon 1.25X4 scope mounted on mine however which solves that problem and gives it 200+ yard effectiveness. It has exceptional wood and the only real downside is the stiff triggers and safety as well as it really would be nice if Chapuis made a splinter fore-end. Other than that, it is just about perfect.

It is not exceptionally expensive going in and I'm sure the I could get most, if not all, of my money out of it should I decide to sell it. That gun has become my go to rifle for most of the hunting I do. Whitetail deer, hogs, and this fall it will be my "light" rifle in Zim for Ele and Buff.

Todd,
The comb on both of my Chapuis's are to high. Perhaps I was not clear when I mentioned it.

Have a set of scope mounts and rings for both but never got around to mounting them yet. Have some serious doubts about scoping the 9,3 because it is super accurate at long range and I just keep on telling myself to live with a puffy cheek after 20 rounds or so at the range.

The UGEX 30R Blaser will be fit with a 2x7 European and hopefully it will be easier to find a load for it compared to the problems you ran into when scoping your 9,3.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

I have a Trijicon 1.25X4 scope mounted on mine

Sorry Todd, I couldn't resist.

Value does not mean the cheapest. For what one desires in a DR, one works his way up a ladder of features and the associated costs. When he gets to the point where adding additional features comes at a cost where the buyer determines that it is not worth that cost, then he's probably reached the best value for him. By features, I don't mean only objective features like ejectors or wood grade, but maybe his perceived value of the maker, the period in which the rifle was made, etc. Value is a very subjective and individual measurement.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Todd,
The comb on both of my Chapuis's are to high. Perhaps I was not clear when I mentioned it.

Have a set of scope mounts and rings for both but never got around to mounting them yet. Have some serious doubts about scoping the 9,3 because it is super accurate at long range and I just keep on telling myself to live with a puffy cheek after 20 rounds or so at the range.

The UGEX 30R Blaser will be fit with a 2x7 European and hopefully it will be easier to find a load for it compared to the problems you ran into when scoping your 9,3.

I think I misread your statement on the comb being too high. But the scope did take care of that.

Dave, at least you kept the S-2 off the list! and

I think my shoe-lump Merkel 140-2 .500 NE is a very good rifle for what I paid for it. For a working double...it would be hard to beat. I got lucky and bought it NIB in the height of the depression for $7500.00 .

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

Dave, at least you kept the S-2 off the list! and

C'mon Todd, we know you like fat girls

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

Dave, at least you kept the S-2 off the list! and

C'mon Todd, we know you like fat girls

No man. You got me confused with Jines!!

If you mean over all value for money spent, my pick would be the Heym PH, with a V/C as a second!
All listed are well made double rifles,however!

......................................................................... ..........

If someone is itching to dump his properly regulated and undremeled Sabatti at a big loss, I am your huckleberry. Just sayin' ...

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
If someone is itching to dump his properly regulated and undremeled Sabatti at a big loss, I am your huckleberry. Just sayin' ...

And there it is in a nutshell: "AT A BIG LOSS". Just sayin!!

This is about as scientific and objective as a Ginger or Mary Ann opinion poll.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
This is about as scientific and objective as a Ginger or Mary Ann opinion poll.

Ginger, of course!

good call..

Jeannie as in "I Dream of"

I agree with MacD37 except my order would be Verney-Carron then Heym.

Once again value is in the eye of the beholder. Many don't buy guns necessarily as an investment.Setting up a one percenters idea
of value in a survey leaves out those who think
value is a tool that does the job for the least outlay of capital. We at this end of the discussion beg to differ with the majority here.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilguy:
Setting up a one percenters idea
of value in a survey leaves out those who think
value is a tool that does the job for the least outlay of capital. We at this end of the discussion beg to differ with the majority here.

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
Jeannie as in "I Dream of"

I'll take Samantha...and a Verney-C!

Lilguy, you are right. However, even with tools, one can admire, and pay extra for quality, design, fit and finish as well as functionality. However, your basic point is well taken. Rather like a Savage vs. a Winchester mod 70 or Rem 700, Sako etc.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Lilguy:
Setting up a one percenters idea
of value in a survey leaves out those who think
value is a tool that does the job for the least outlay of capital. We at this end of the discussion beg to differ with the majority here.

+1