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N Wasn't that 600NE a 120 Grain load? Can't find the thread on it on NE.com. Did you ever fire it? I have a picture around someplace if I can find it. I thought it was made in 1897 or 98 but you would know better than I. Is G still around? Maybe he could answer some questions? Jack had a Jeffery 577 3 1/4". Jones underlever, rose wood stock with checkered wood butt. Marked 750 grain bullet 100 grains Cordite. Made in 1897 I think. He has some more info I think. Send him an email. PM me and I will give you his addy if you don't have it | |||
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Mickey Yes, the 1st 600 is still around and yes, I have fired it - managed to get 5 of the 6 shots away in 25 seconds and was pleased with the score I got. Not sure I would do it again / regularly !!! Not sure if it is 100, 110 or 120gnd, will get it checked out - For a start I'll look at the pwperwork. The 577 3 1/4" I was referring to has no nitro proof marks - which is fine for when it was made and it wasn't until someone decided to shoot a full Nitro load in it that they managed to get it to shoot / regulate. Then I got hold of the records and we made the link. The dates of my 1st post are 100% correct as they come straight from the Jeffrey records. The dates posted at the beginning of the thread - 1902 / 1903 are far too late for the development of the 600 Nitro. Mickey - does Jack still have the 577 ? Would like to see a photo if possible. Speak soon 500N | |||
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Jack's 577 had no Nitro proof marks. The loading was on the flats though. No idea when it was put there but the rifle wighed in a 14 pounds. Much too heavy for a BP. He sold it about 15 years ago. Then it was sold again, through Ted Wood. No idea where it is now. I shot the 600 once at Little River. Was trying to buy it but got nowhere as G was still researching it. That would have been around '87 or so, maybe '90. | |||
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Mick: Are you saying that it had "Cordite 100 grs" and "750 grs bullet max'm" marked on the flats? If so, this starts to make a little sense. A British Nitro Express, properly nitro proved, that was built before 1904 won't have a nitro proof mark. Nitro proof was required for smokeless cartridge rifles after 1887. Conversely, the Nitro Proof mark was not introduced until 1904. Under the 1887 rules, the marking of "Cordite X grs..." IS the Nitro Proof mark - naming a semi-smokeless propellant on the flats is how it was done. If that load was on the flats, it was Nitro Proof. ----------------------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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400 Exactly. That was my point. Only the loading on the flats with no 'Nitro proofed stamp'. N I talked with Jack and he still has some of the original Kynoch unfired brass, Kynoch wads, a pound or so of Cordite and about 200 Berdan primers. A real do it yourselfer.  No pictures though. | |||
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Mickey Yep, a real doityourselfer and how it was always done !!! You have managed to answer a whole heap of questions though. Thanks | |||
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I don't think there's any question about that. Somewhere I have information from the Jeffery records that a half dozen or so pairs of .600 barrels were ordered from Krupp for the first UL boxlock guns sometime early in 1901, IIRC. Lewis Drake had one of those guns for sale some years ago. The hand drawn 3" revisions to the original Kynoch drawings in June, 1902 are clearly belated. The 2.8" drawings were done 1/13/1899, so it's clear that Jeffery was working on the .600 before then. The dates of origin of many of the nitros have never been clearly established. We know from contemporary magazine articles that Jeffery was testing the .400 Jeffery in 1897, and I've seen rifles from 1900-1901, but nobody seems to have an exact date. Likewise the .470, which most date to 1907 and credit to Lang. Since Rigby delivered one early in 1900, the cartridge dates from 1899 at the latest, and Lang seems an unlikely originator. ------------------------------------------------ "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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That's a little "sniper on the grassy knoll"ish, don't you think?  ----------------------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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With its purported 8000+ Ft. lbs. energy The 600 definately adds an extra margin of security for those instances when things go wrong...BEEN THERE! Don't own a 600, ain't gonna, but got to love the guys that do and really go out there and shoot game with them. Why the 600? Don't know - Why climb Everest / K2? - Because they're there! Ford-Chevy, Porsche-Ferrari....Tastes great, less filling... ...Betcha this...Noboy can deny that tipping over a Buff / Ele with one wouldn't be a real thrill...Damn'd sure would! ...Can you say "Kah-whoomp"! 13.5 pounds, 8000+ FPE... ...Maybe I'll try one after all. Life is short - HAVE FUN! JW | |||
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I have read the earlier 600's were 16 - 18 pnd and the earlier 577's were 14 - 16 pound. Since they were NOT carried by the IVORY HUNTER HIMSELF till he decided he had to I guess the weight was workable. Now-a-days the 600's seen to top out at under 15 pnd and the 577's seen to top out under 14 pnd. So these newer HEAVIES will hit the man harder than the older heavier ones. Jack OH GOD! {Seriously, we need the help.} | |||
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Jack, The weights for original English 600's is all over the board. From 11 pounds up to 20+. I can say for a fact that a 14 pound gun is not that bad to shoot. Yes it hits like the hammer of Thor on both ends but not that bad. The Jeffery guns were regulated with the 100gr cordite load which gave about 1850fps in a 28" proof barrel and NOT in production guns. I know of a gun that has 24" barrels and it regulates perfectly at 1680-1700fps with a 900 gr bullet. Given the barrels are 4" shorter than the 28" proof barrels the regulated velocity is right in the ball park of the 1850fps proof load. 1733fps with with a 900gr bullet gives 6000ft lbs of energy. The 110gr loading yielded 1950fps in the 28" proof barrels. Subtract for shorter barrels in the production guns and I dont know of any 600's that come close to the published velocities and energy ratings. But then again a 900gr pill at 1650-1700 is PLENTY!!!!!! By the way are you going to the Vintagers at the end of the month? Bike Rider Corbin | |||
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My old 10 bore does 1745 Ft/Sec with 900 grain lead bullet..10 drams of black..MORE than enough for me....Gun weight is little over 14 Ibs. Imagine the recoil of a 900 grain bullet at 200 feet faster  DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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Dan, I think he meant carried by the hunter himself, as was qualified by his words: "it would not be carried day in and day out, so weight was not a concern. Its 16-18 pounds would be borne by a gunbearer most of the time." I agree the 600 NE, both the short and long version is not needed today even as much as in it's infancy. IMO, when one reaches the 500NE, nothing else is NEEDED, but at least the 577NE can be placed in a much lighter rifle than the 600NE. Still the 577NE alomst falls into the same RESERVE status as the 600NE, for a special purpose, while hunting with a more suitable rifle,(500NE or smaller) that can be far lighter to carry for long distances, and not have to be picked out of a thorn bush where a gunbearer threw it,when he left the area to climb a tree.  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Mac, You crack me up!!!! Doc52 B. Searcy & Co .577 NE Double Rifle Shooters Society "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote!" Benjamin Franklin 1759 | |||
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MacD "Still the 577Ne almost falls into the same RESERVE status as the 600NE......" You hit the nail on the head with the ALMOST  Less than 100 prewar English 600NE doubles made. 6 Hollands, 6 Purdeys, 37 Jeffery, a few WR........ What a rare beast! Bike Rider | |||
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Did any one ever chamber a rifle for the 2.8" version? 465H&H | |||
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I'm sure, if a test barrel was made for that cartridge, they surely would have made at least a single shot rifle to check out the new cartridge. Maybe not and this cartridge may not have gotten past the drawing stage! Since multiple serious cartridge collectors have never even seen an example of the cartridge, and noone has come up with a rifle so chambered, I doubt one exists! One never knows, however!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Why Create the 600 Nitro Express?
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