Go a head grab a rope, brand me a heretic, excommunicate me from all double rifle matters . . . but my Sabatti .450 NE may be my most accurate double rifle. This was shot with Hornady DGX ammo (which shoots amazingly slow in my view, all rounds were under 2000 fps), off sticks at 50 yards. Six shots. Rifle has a Burris Fast Fire red dot on it. I know it is not fashionable to say anything positive about a Sabatti but I could not help myself.

Mike-

Looks like a ¾" shift right on that Burris FastFire will have you dead center at 50 yards with that Sabatti. I owned two in 500NE and neither one was a keeper, unfortunately. If they had been I would not have hesitated to keep 'em.

I previously contacted the new Sabatti importer (post Cabelas) when I first heard they were coming back. I asked about the previous regulation issues and kind of got the run around. Not the we are very aware of the previous issues and here is what we have don't to prevent it and here is out guarantee that I kind of expected for a multi-thousand dollar luxury product. If I could be guaranteed with confidence that I was getting what I paid for it would probably by on my list. Such a shame because they once that are correct seem to be great rifles.

My Sabatti 450 NE was okay with factory ammo as well, but just okay as all shots crossed at 50 yds. Had I not looked for that I may never have known. Be that as it may, I found the load I wanted--450 TSX at 2250 fps. Each barrel would should that load under and inch at 50 yds, but the group centers were crossed and spread. Then I loaded up 60 rounds and sent my rifle off to Aaron Little to be regulated. I'm also having him fix the stock--comb was way too high for me. He is also depeening the rear sight to because the rifle shoots so high in factory form. When all is said and done, I will have a strong double made from modern steel that is custom fit to me and is well regulated. All for significantly less than the cheapest decent double.

A lawyer with a Sabatti? Where is the stake and torch! Heresy, I say. Especially when you have all of those keen English doubles.

Speaking of which, did you ever give Ralf a call about that Midland .470? Not on his website anymore...

quote:

Mike-

Looks like a ¾" shift right on that Burris FastFire will have you dead center at 50 yards with that Sabatti

+1 , I must add a very accurate Sabatti for that, a winner for sure. way to go Mike, enjoy your time shooting it using the savings to buy lots of ammo to shoot/practice a lot or add another trophy to the bag.

quote:

My Sabatti 450 NE was okay with factory ammo as well, but just okay as all shots crossed at 50 yds. Had I not looked for that I may never have known. Be that as it may, I found the load I wanted--450 TSX at 2250 fps. Each barrel would should that load under and inch at 50 yds, but the group centers were crossed and spread. Then I loaded up 60 rounds and sent my rifle off to Aaron Little to be regulated. I'm also having him fix the stock--comb was way too high for me. He is also depeening the rear sight to because the rifle shoots so high in factory form. When all is said and done, I will have a strong double made from modern steel that is custom fit to me and is well regulated. All for significantly less than the cheapest decent double.

INTJ; A very smart decision, indeed a very wise man.

Here's the deal!! Mike, if I had that Sabatti with an red dot style sight my Elephant may not have taken 10 rounds to quiet.

My eyes just suck with open sights these days and I would never alter my Army Navy by putting a "Dr Optic" etc. on it.

So......keep that puppy, it's a keeper.

Cheers
Jim

Nice shooting Mike!
I agree about the FastFire is a great double rifle sight. Especially for someone like me. The doctor says my eyes suffer from "Too many birthdays"!Iron sights are not an option for me these days! I'm for anything that keeps me shooting my doubles!

Last month my friend David Guitar took a lion with his 475#2 Jeffery double with a Dr. Optic red dot. He praised the sight!

In all candor it took a little work to get the Sabatti into shootable shape. I had to have both triggers reworked and lightened. We added a recoil reducer in the butt since the rifle balanced so poorly. Then one of the firing pins broke and had to be replaced. Some of the solder around the muzzle came loose and had to be redone. In the end, it is still a low end Chevy but for a low end Chevy it has a nice smooth ride.

Mike
I have a Sabatti 450 Nitro that I have shot similar groups with many times. My rifle is an early one with good muzzles. It was used on several elephant hunts with great success. Sabatti made some good rifles and I was lucky to get a good one and am totally satisfied. I also believe some naysayers have blinders on. I have owned other makes of doubles that came with many issues. The Sabatti was the best of the lot as far as issues went. Hope you enjoy your rifle.

On the same thought line--many women that look like Janet Reno can give a fella a tremendous time in bed. However, most would rather not do so.
Cal
PS. As Ben Franklin wrote, "In the dark, all cats are gray."

quote:

many women that look like Janet Reno can give a fella a tremendous time in bed

Cal, speaking from experience? :-)

quote:

Originally posted by malek:

quote:

Mike-

Looks like a ¾" shift right on that Burris FastFire will have you dead center at 50 yards with that Sabatti

+1 , I must add a very accurate Sabatti for that, a winner for sure. way to go Mike, enjoy your time shooting it using the savings to buy lots of ammo to shoot/practice a lot or add another trophy to the bag.

Mike is just one of the lucky ones who got one of the good ones! If they had all been as good as Mike's this discusion would have never been started. In fact if all had been close to that good there would be a couple of them in my vault as we speak! I almost bought one myself but Cabela didn't have one in stock that I could look at. I'm damn glad they didn't as it turned out, I'm not as lucky as Mike!!

I have a long history of buying things, taking them home, taking them apart, and making them better. When I was young I did it out of necessity. Nowadays I do it because I can get a better product, made to my desires, resulting in better overall value.

When I bought my Sabatti on closeout from Cabela's, I knew exactly what I as getting--a strong action and a rifle made of modern steel. Those two things cannot be fixed. Everything else can. Had I bought a Krieghoff, Merkel, Blaser, or anything else in that price range, there is no guarantee they would have shot how I wanted and fit me how I wanted.

When you want something that is custom built to your specs, you can either go with a maker that will do that for you, or get a basic rifle of a sound design and made of sound steel and have it fit to you or fit it yourself. The end result is the same. Whether the gun is and H&H, a Heym, a VC, a Merkel, or a Sabatti; if it fits you, you can shoot it well, and is reliable--the end result is the same. I have several custom M-70s that perform as well as or better than a Dakota or Jarrett or Ed Brown, and my M-70s coat far less.........

I figured that Mike would come out of the closet sooner or later.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

many women that look like Janet Reno can give a fella a tremendous time in bed

Cal, speaking from experience? :-)

I was, until you stole her from me with your olive oil voice, Herculean physique, boyish grin, and movie star good looks.
Cal

If the 500 i had shot like that i would have kept it.
No doubt.

Nitro

I must be lucky; I have had three big bore Sabattis; the first one was a very early gun, which had both muzzles ground. I was well aware of it when I bought it and it shot into 2 inches at 50 yards. At dusk you could see the fire spurting from the cuts. .450 NE. I took it back and got another one, in .450, which had the second best wood ever put on a Sabatti. It too, reliably shot into 2 inches and had clean muzzles. Another AR member wanted it and I wanted a .500, so I sold it and bought a .500 with the best wood ever put on one. It too, shoots into 2.5 inches at 50 yards. (but it kicks a bit). In my opinion, a relatively few (still to many) Sabattis were not regulated well, or correctly which killed them. I told Cabelas HQ rep that but he was clueless. Anyway, this story has been beat to death and beyond. They were well built guns that could have been successful if they had only known how to regulate a double rifle. I could have taught them and offered to do so, early on. Big companies are not responsive nor open to ideas.

Cal, I don't think Janet Reno has ever been with a man. However, I don't know about her look-a-like. Either way, a grocery bag would be in order.

Dutch

quote:

a grocery bag would be in order

As a safety precaution MORE THAN ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can handle the personal insults but to equate my rifle to Janet Reno, that is simply not cricket.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I can handle the personal insults but to equate my rifle to Janet Reno, that is simply not cricket.

Wait, What? Did someone mention your Blaser thingy?

Once I got the Sabatti, I figured why maintain any notion of good taste and sound judgment.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
In all candor it took a little work to get the Sabatti into shootable shape. I had to have both triggers reworked and lightened. We added a recoil reducer in the butt since the rifle balanced so poorly. Then one of the firing pins broke and had to be replaced. Some of the solder around the muzzle came loose and had to be redone. In the end, it is still a low end Chevy but for a low end Chevy it has a nice smooth ride.

I think your own confession has confirmed Sabatti is in fact a very well understood Stepchild

Not being one to throw stones, I too tried a Sabatti. Below is my long-winded letter to Cabelas which resulted in a full refund ....

On November 3 I stopped at the Cabelas store in Buda, TX with my son. While in the Gun Library I saw a Sabatti in 450/400 NE with a price tag of $4,499. This was certainly cheaper than the other Sabattis in the case, so I asked why it was so much cheaper. The representative did not know, so I asked if this was a new gun. He replied that he “believed it was”. The regulating wedge between the barrels sticks out almost 1/8” beyond the muzzles, and all the other models had the wedge cut flush with the end of the barrels. The rep explained that earlier models had been regulated by grinding the rifling at the muzzle as needed to adjust the trajectory of the bullets and Sabatti got a bad rap for this practice. Since then, he said, they have been regulating the barrels correctly and this gun “must be one that has been regulated correctly.” He showed me one where the grinding at the muzzle was obvious, and this 450/400 had no obvious grind marks at the muzzle. The final tuning target showed impressive performance with the barrels hitting approximately 1-1/2 inches apart at 50m.

The rep eventually found some snap caps that would work and we tested the ejectors, both of which worked fine. I shoot left-handed but my boys shoot right-handed and both like shooting double rifles. I figured for $4,499 it would be hard to go wrong, especially with a caliber that is mild in recoil yet can be used anywhere for anything.
Apparently it is not that hard to go wrong after all.

This particular gun (serial number CAB0145), which your representative “believed” was a new rifle, has a brown pachmayer decelerator pad on it. Since buying the gun, I’ve looked at pictures of every Sabatti double you advertise on the web and have not come across another one with this recoil pad. Likewise, I have not seen another where the regulating wedge extends beyond the end of the barrels. On the left barrel, there is a horizontal line across the muzzle face, even with the bottom of the regulating wedge.

It wasn’t until I had fired several rounds and the copper fouling highlighted the rifling that it became obvious in both barrels there are spots where the rifling does not extend all the way to the end of the barrel. On the left barrel, the rifling on left side of the muzzle is absent for perhaps the last 3/8”. On the right barrel, the rifling is gone from the right side all the way down to the bottom (one quarter of the circumference of the muzzle).

As for performance, the rifle is unacceptable. I have put approximately 105 rounds through the rifle. I have never shot more than 3 rounds in each barrel before allowing the gun to cool back down to ambient temperature. To get the best feel for its performance, I eventually would shoot each barrel one time, then allow the gun to cool to ambient temperature before firing each barrel again. After 4 sessions of 10 rounds (5 thru each barrel, allowing the rifle to cool to ambient after shooting 1 round through each barrel), the best 10 round composite group was slightly less than 8 inches at 50 yards, and this happened only once. The other three 10 round groups sprayed well beyond 8 inches, and no two-round set came close to the performance on the final tuning target. All these tests were done with Hornady factory loaded 400 grain DGX and DGS bullets. During these sessions, the rifle only touched my shoulder and my hand on the forearm. My position was standing with my hand that held the forearm resting on a tripod to ensure stability during the tests.

The reason 105 rounds were put through the rifle was to give it every chance to work. I cleaned the barrels after several rounds to see if this would help. It made it substantially worse and took 4 to 6 fouling rounds before it would hit an 8 inch target. Sometimes it would then be somewhat repeatable for 6 rounds (3 down each barrel, respectable groups from each barrel, but the groups were inches apart from each other), then it would start spraying bullets with no repeatability again.

I don’t believe, as your representative believed, this is a new rifle that has been regulated properly. This looks like a rifle that someone has already owned and installed a better recoil pad on, then returned because it lacked accuracy and repeatability. Based on the horizontal line across the left barrel muzzle, even with the bottom of the regulating wedge, it certainly looks like the original muzzles have been cut off and the barrels shortened to remove the obvious grind marks. Enough has been cut off to where the lack of rifling is not obvious until copper fouling highlights where it has been removed.

I don’t care what your stated return policy is, I want my money back. I believe your representative either knowingly or unknowingly misrepresented the history of this rifle, and even if he didn’t, the performance is completely unacceptable and does not even remotely resemble the final tuning target supplied with the rifle.

This seems like another roll of the dice embarking-no thanks.

. . . some times you roll a 7 some times you roll snake eyes . . . hot dice are mighty nice.

14....



(Merkel)..

quote:

Once I got the Sabatti, I figured why maintain any notion of good taste and sound judgment.

Mike

Mike, I always figured your for a closet K-Mart type anyway :-)

Has anyone purchased a Sabatti since the importer changed to IFG?

the problem with them, is that they are not misunderstood. There is a wealth of history behind them...

Biebs is right, I think you have blue light shopper tattooed on your forehead.

In a world of $7500 bnib Merkels, I cannot remotely understand the appeal of a sabatti.

Jmho

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:


That said, I completely agree with those here who've had good luck with theirs. When it's a good one, it's way ahead of a Merkel..

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
14....(Merkel)..

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
In a world of $7500 bnib Merkels, I cannot remotely understand the appeal of a sabatti.

Jmho

Jorge doesn't agree with you, it seems!
...................................................................

Sure I do, I wouldn't own either. I learned my lesson!

Because you can buy a Sabatti 450 NE and have it regulated to your selected load and have the stock fit to you and still be way less than a Merkel.

Mike, if the shots didn't cross then that's a great group. I have thought about getting one of the Sabattis to lug around in the dark, wet woods but I haven't convinced myself yet. I am less concerned with regulation than the sort of issues you had, ie. "had to have both triggers reworked and lightened,... the rifle balanced so poorly,...one of the firing pins broke,...solder around the muzzle came loose."

I can work up a regulation load or send a gun off to be regulated.
But I don't want to buy something that ends up being a project like Mr. Blandings' Dream House.

quote:

Because you can buy a Sabatti 450 NE and have it regulated to your selected load and have the stock fit to you and still be way less than a Merkel.

very nice superb shooting, this target reminds me with Jorge's targets that he used to post, extreme accuracy from a double and great marksmanship.

is it the rifle that you sent to Aaron to reregulate?

Several here have said, in essence, that a Sabatti can provide you with two of the happiest days of your life.

The day you open the box, and the day the next owner buys it from you...

quote:

Originally posted by malek:

quote:

Because you can buy a Sabatti 450 NE and have it regulated to your selected load and have the stock fit to you and still be way less than a Merkel.

very nice superb shooting, this target reminds me with Jorge's targets that he used to post, extreme accuracy from a double and great marksmanship.

is it the rifle that you sent to Aaron to reregulate?

Yes. Aaron still needs to adjust the sights and have it reblued. The group measures 3/4". The load I sent was printing very tight from each barrel, just not together.

The only significant issues with the Cabela's Sabatti's were ground muzzles on a some and mediocre regulation on many. The other issues mentioned seemed to come from rifles that were hack gunsmithed, the returned and sold as new again.