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I have seen a few comments in various forums that a down side of ejectors is that they make a loud ping when they operate and dangerous game might be able to "locate" you because of the "ping". Unless I am missing something, they only operate when the gun has been fired and when hunting dangerous you are going to reload immediately after firing a shot, whether 1 or both barrels. So I am trying to figure out, why anyone would be worried about a "ping" that had been immediately preceded by a KAF*CKIN BOOM! Are people really putting forward a hypothesis that says an elephant, lion, buffalo or whatever; says to itself "I just heard a BOOM and either I or my buddy are now in distress, I don't what that boom was but I better go attack that ping." Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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The general impression I've got from Pondoro's writings is that the noise of a shot echoes in such a way that the animals may not be able to pin-point it at close range but the noise of ejectors is much easier to get a fix on. His concern was mainly because as a professional (or poacher) he wanted to shoot multiple elephants and liked to reload after each shot, keeping the other barrel in reserve for emergencies. That consideration is probably much less important in the context of a sportsman's safari. | |||
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You are correct, of course. The only way this ping nonsense is a danger is if the shot(s) is/are fired, the animal is missed, and the hunter waits a bit to watch what happens, and then opens his rifle to reload. The animal may not know where the shot came from but now is aware and will focus on the ping. At least that is how is was explained to me when I asked about this very thing years ago when I first got into double rifles and heard the same question. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Well, I think it is pretty hilarious that given the lack of scientific equipment of the time and toted about in the field that someone (regardless of their vast experience) would hypothesis that a) though know how an animal hears different sounds and b) that animals (while they can be well trained and sometimes exhibit problem solving skills) would conduct such intricate cognitive thoughts. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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You guys need to read more John Taylor before you discount the disadvantages of ejectors; the ejector ping is definitely real, (aside from it's other annoying and unnecessary characteristics) and Taylor would not be caught dead in the field with one. (Death being the reason he didn't) But his rationale for not using them was not with the animal he just shot at. Remember, he was an ivory harvester/hunter, and he needed to drop as many from a group as he could, and not get trampled by the first victim's brothers and sisters. So, the ejector ping just would serve as a cell phone locator so the pissed off relatives could squash him. He wanted to avoid that, so he did not use ejectors. I see sambar already said this in fewer words. | |||
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Tom, I agree on the operational part of the gun and I don't dispute the noise. But it would seem that, the Boom was a much bigger clue to other guys?  Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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No, as stated, rifle shots echo in the field and are hard to pinpoint the origin especially if you are on the receiving end. A sharp metallic sound is easier to locate, and destroy. For humans too. | |||
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Let's imagine the first elephant getting shot,I have been present for three getting their BOOM,their was no quiet,the rest of the herd was loud & running etc, it was close range,panic ensued,they all took off except in one case where we were facing an angry male,some exciting moments that time,my point is the ping from the ejectors getting re-set is nothing in that scenario,would a bolt gun getting reloaded make a sound? I shot my elephant with an O/U in a unfit cartridge a 458 Lott,it was an ejector,so were the other two guns as well,I would invite people with field experience,to comment on this,I shot cape buffalo as well with an ejector,the herd took off as well,a ping would be not noticed,the only disadvantage to an ejector gun to me is if the springs are too hard & make the gun difficult to open. I think back in the day the animals did not react in the same fashion as they do now,there was maybe much less hunting pressure,so the ping could have been an issue? There are plenty of hunt videos on U-tube to examine,especially one where Mike Jines is getting charged along with Buzz & his team,the only thing saving their bacon was just a few BOOMS DRSS | |||
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Does anyone ever have this conversation about Bolt Guns and the noise they make when they cycle the bolt... or are our Bolt Brethren sooo fast that a new shell is in the chamber before the sound of the first shot dies off...  I'll join the fray ..... Just re-watched a video that my wife took through her camera of me shooting a Tuskless with my 450NE "Extractor" DR. The shot was a frontal brain inside of 15yrds, the cow went down immediately and you can see the rest of the herd start to turn by the time the shot cow hit the ground. We backed up to a safe distance as the herd approached the downed cow, while were backing up I employed my best John Taylor and Pondoro'ed a new shell into my "Extractor" gun the herd never found us.... Hard to say I have only the personal experience of one. | |||
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Of course hunting DG is different now than in the 1930s when Taylor was working. Game was not afraid of poachers and as he describes it, he would drop as many as he could in one sitting; much like our Bison was "harvested". And I have seen and done that many times; the boom does not alarm the Bison, but anything that sounds foreign to them, will. Remember, there are many Boom sounds in nature; thunder, trees falling, elephant farts, but nothing that makes metallic clicks. Bolt guns? Still quieter than ejectors. Nowadays, everything is skittish and will panic at anything, so in reality, ejectors are not an issue. Doesn't mean I like them though. I hate them more than over and unders. | |||
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Sounds like you are ready for some gun love theraphy  what if you woke up one day & were surrounded by O/U's IN BELTED CARTRIDGES & all ejectors?  Just joshing with ya. DRSS | |||
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Mike, I think you have been in the vicinity of feeding elephants, and so would know that elephants breaking large limbs out of trees to get to the leaves makes some very loud BOOMs/CRACKS that sound exactly like gun shots. when a herd is feeding these sounds of limbs cracking all around them is simply disregarded. This fact is the reason that they pay little attention to those noises. However the "PINGS" of the brass whistling through the air is as foreign as a freight train whistle to the wild life in African bush. Just something to place in your think tank, for sake of deciding if Taylor may have known some thing we don't! ..........................................................Opinion is a very personal thing, and there is no law that says others must agree with anyone who thinks differently than himself! ....................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I would have thought the additional movement of the arm to extract the spent shells (before reloading) would off set any disadvantage of an audible "ping". And, on a decent made gun, with ejectors there is no "ping". It is visible movement that gets you seen and so gets you killed. Not noise. It's why bottom ejecting self-loading sniper rifles, or hunting rifles, would be a huge tactical advantage. | |||
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I would think the ping could in some circumstances possibly cause a problem when in close to a herd. I have had to hold back from adding additional rounds to a bolt rifle due to a group of Elephant searching for us after a kill. Admittingly I had loaded the last round into the rifle just moments after the second insurance shot. This was a loan rifle that held three rounds. For DG I will only use a bolt action that holds a minimum of four rounds now or a double with its ability to be loaded quietly. | |||
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You are absolutely correct on the ejectors not making a "PING"! They make a click, the ping is made by the empty brass flying through the air, and is more of a whistle than a so-called PING. Movement is in fact a draw of charges, but is only one factor of making the game aware if your position. I think what Taylor was referring to was a problem for his multi-bag of ivory. He liked to find elephant feeding among thick trees where he could move about quickly from target to target to kill as many as he could before the rest of the herd stampeded out of the locality. In that scenario, ANY extra sound meant loss of ivory and maybe life. Many times in thick cover today shooting target animal, the rest of the group will stay close to the downed animal, not knowing where the shooter is. In that case any unnecessary movement or sound can get you into trouble very quickly. With bulls the Escaries tend to stay with the downed bull, while the cows will stay with the young calves till they find what is going on and rush the little guys away from the danger. ...................................................................When buying a double rifle it is simply up to the buyer which he wants, ejectors, or extractors, and orders what he wants. I don't hunt elephant, so it makes no difference to me which the rifle has, because I can live with either and have doubles fitted both ways. I have never been handicapped by not having selective ejectors, and the only place where the ejectors bothers me is on the firing range when practicing fast reloading for shots three and four, and some ranges will not allow you to retrieve your expended brass. ........................................................As I said before nobody is required to agree with my opinion.  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Spot on, Pondoro shot vastly more animals than most still living today and under circumstances where he had no backup and relied on his own shooting to keep himself alive. He knew his stuff and nobody alive today would know it as well or better. Whether the hunting circumstances have changed now where his concerns over the sounds of ejectors and ejected brass have no substance is up to the modern hunter and their PH to determine. The question should be asked, does the advantage or importance of ejectors, out-way any disadvantages such as noise from ejectors or ejected shells and hunters fumbling around to gather up shells when he should be watching the downed game and any animals that could be in the vicinity and present a danger (noticeable in videos of the number of hunters who's priority is to piss around and catch or pick up brass immediately after firing. Been with hunters who do this and it infuriates me. | |||
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Except, this post is not about whether ejectors are right or wrong. This post is about whether the postulations Taylor makes about the sound ejectors has any merit. Regarding ejectors being right or wrong and thrown brass and the stupidity of looking for brass at the wrong time - idiotic behavior related to a piece of equipment does not make the equipment bad. Just like trying to close a bolt on a round that has been dropped into the chamber of a unmodified CRF, doesn't make the CRF a bad action. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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The problem with ejectors (if there is one) is that they do make a noise and do throw the cases clear of the action, yes exactly the same as a bolt action but at least with a double you do have a choice of no ejectors or disabled ejectors and then you do have a nice quiet operation to unload empties and recharge, a feature that many promote as one of the advantages of a double gun for dangerous game. A bolt gun doesn't give you such a choice. The thread was not about the postulations that John Taylor made, as usual old Pondoro came into the conversation because he like others at least put in writing his thoughts on the subject. I'm sure many double users are aware of the issue but they don't write about it. The thread was about whether the ping sound ejectors make are a disadvantage when around dangerous game. I haven't hunted dangerous game with a double but there have been several occasions when hunting other game at close quarters with a bolt action that I have wished they were quieter to eject and reload. Most any metallic sound at close quarters to game will spook them. The double does give you a choice which is what the OP is sounding out. Jim Corbett recounted one instance where he had a maneater tiger at very close range in his sights when using a double but he had the safety on and knew that as soon as he snicked the safety forward the tiger would be off quicker than he could shoot, or possibly wheel and grab him before he could shoot. He sighted on the tigers shoulders from the rear, put pressure on the front trigger and released the safety not knowing if the gun would fire. It did and one very dead tiger. | |||
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Well, given I wrote it and I wrote after doing a google search and the information I found points back to John Taylor and Taylor's comments are not based on scientific data; I think I can say with certainty what this post is about whether or not I identified Taylor in the very first post. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Totally off topic: Didn’t US GIs replicate the sound of the Garand stripper clip being ejected to trick German solders? I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills. Marcus Cady DRSS | |||
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I saw they did that in the Pacific. Probably in Europe too. Surprise! DRSS | |||
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The perfect solution--an extractor on your first barrel and an ejector on your second. Quiet if you need to reload the first and fast if the SHTF, you've fired both barrels and need a fast reload. Ideal, don'tcha think?? Personal choice after personal consideration of the facts. Next up for discussion: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Mike-I concur. IMHO. Dave Manson | |||
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Anybody here have knowledge of the operation of the ear in mammals? I am trying to "square" how an elephant who can communicate over 2 miles via its vocal capabilities and hence have outstanding hearing in one aspect, would not be able to distinguish between a gunshot and the cracking and snapping of a tree branch or thunder etc. Especially when that gunshot takes place at likely 30 yards or less. This isn't meant to be argumentative, it is a serious question. I learn by challenging "facts" or previously accepted ideas. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Not to be picky, but M1 Rifles do not use stripper clips. Ok, it's picky. As for mammals hearing, of course it varies, but no matter what kind of boom they hear, or think they hear, they don't seem to mind it much. Often then don't even mind that close relatives have just dropped at their feet. Bison come closer to the downed one when that happens, for example, and try to make former brother in law, get back up. Whereas, a sound that does not exist at all in the wild, metal on metal, does. From the animals I have been around and killed. Each situation is different; train and be prepared for it. Ejectors, like controlled round feed bolt actions, were invented for those who do not wish to learn to use rifles. Now we think they are a necessity. Neither of them are. NO hate mail please; I get enough now. | |||
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Not a stripper clip (does are for bolt actions OR the M-14) but "en bloc" clips that ejected out of the Garand after the last round ejected. Yes, there are accounts of the "ping" being heard, but the Germans, smart chaps they are, quickly figured out it was best to ignore it, lest it be trick (dropping one on top of a hard surface). As to the thread, very interesting, but not to blaspheme or anything, but Taylor's use of a 7MM for elephants is something I personally would not entertain... USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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..............Maybe Taylor used a 7mm, but I have never read that about Taylor! I think you may be confusing Taylor with Bell in this case. I think Taylor was guilty of using the little 375NE, and 450-400NE quite often on elephant, a choice that most today disagree with for elephant. ........................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Taylor does mention the 7mm on page 179 and he credits Bell with 1011 elephants with it. He says that the 173 grain sound nose bullet to the brain will kill as well as a 750 gain one, but it's "merely a question of getting it there". He says that if the brain is not hit, the ele will get away. He has no use for the 140 grain bullet, but back then, they were very thin jacketed and he says they did not penetrate well. | |||
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Yeah him, so who was the "knock out value" dude, Taylor? he's all wet too.. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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On Friday afternoon I went to my friendly FFL guy and picked up a Verney-Carron .470 Azur without ejectors. It may be the only one they built sans the PING. Anyway.... I find that rolling a post-shot rifle with a quarter twist to the right dumps the shells quite easily and seems to not take up any time. I grew up shooting single shot and double barreled shotguns without ejectors. Maybe that's why I couldn't care less (except for resale) whether or not I have them. And... at the price I paid for the V-C, resale shouldn't be a problem. Anyone want a used. extractor, in pretty good shape (two owners, I think) V-C Azur .470 come October when I get back from Africa? $9,000 delivered? JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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| One of Us |
A mate has that exact rifle with Extractors. Nice rifle | |||
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| one of us |
Both had their faults, but both did a lot of elephant hunting/poaching! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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One of Us |
Hear the ping and come on in. I will have it reloaded and ready to sling more lead.   | |||
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| one of us |
Make you don't drop them on a rock - the ping might get you trampled. | |||
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| One of Us |
Having a mature Ele angrily searching for you at close quarters can be an exciting experience let alone half a dozen of them. | |||
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| One of Us |
Can’t comment on big African game, but plenty of times I have shot deer in a group. At the sort nd of the shot the other deer are not worried in the slightest. Rattle of the bolt and they are immediately alert and looking at you. | |||
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I think you are onto something with that thought about the animals' behaviour evolving. We know that red deer that roar tend to get shot sooner, leaving greater genetic survival to those that don't. I once found a book from about 1900 where the author said many cape buffalo were so grumpy they would charge at the very sight of a human. If that was true, I guess those ones got shot first, leaving the more-circumspect bulls to breed. | |||
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I shot the rifle yesterday at 50 yards. I called both shots low and to the left. Right was one inch low and one inch to the left. Left was touching the right about 1/2" above. I was shooting Woodleigh solids at 2088 (measured). The seller had told me that JJ had tuned the triggers. It really made a difference. I'm not changing a thing! BTW, what is a good snapshot hosting site.
JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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| one of us |
The boom to an animal can be thunder, so its not a problem..The ping allows the elephant to locate his hunter and at 10 to 15 ft. that's not a good thing.... That was the original report by several well known Ivory hunters back in the day...I conclude they probably knew more than todays elephant hunters or even the internet jockeys. That said, I hate ejectors as they make a gun hard and slower to open..extractors on the other hand allow the barrels to fall open on their own and you dump the fired cases, load up and it closes smoothly..Its fast and easy and hey no "ping", just in case the old boys of the day were full of it.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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| One of Us |
I have both ejector & extractor guns at the moment,I think that the extractor gun does make a sound as well upon closing,more of a thud than a ping,I used my K-gun on a buff hunt in South Africa,I shot the lead cow who was threatening a charge,my guide & tracker headed for the hills ha ha,I had a tree for cover,the rest of the small herd saw me back away,I think I was just lucky,it could have been different,they could have come for me,but in any case there would have been some sound from reloading no matter what,if you had good concealment & time? I suppose you could baby the reloading to minimize the sound. DRSS | |||
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