For those familiar with both calibers, how would you stack up the pros and cons of each? I have a Heym M88 in .470 NE and but for middle-fingeritis from the trigger guard I really like it, but there is certainly a lot of chatter about the .450/400.

MJ
Try gripping the rifle hard and not relaxing your grip till after the recoil. Also there are rubber and leather "rings" that you can put on the trigger guard that should help.

The 450/400 is a great round for DG. It has a bit less recoil than the 450/475 class of cartridges.

The 470 is the present day most popular Ntro Express.

Mike - For the quality of gun you own, I can't think of a similar - priced gun that could replace it in 450/400.

If the trigger guard hitting your finger is that bad, then try a $20 rubber bumper from Galazns.


PS - let me know if you ever want to sell it!

Thanks, I have one on order. Also have bought Finger EEZ ring-type pad. I love the .470, I was just trying to come up with some good reasons to get another caliber too.

Mike, Mike, Mike. . . .

Please write on the blackboard 100 times. . .
I never need a good reason to buy another double rifle

Whew, that was close!

No worries, I understand that -- it is She Who Must Be Obeyed that just doesn't seem to get it. Although I have to say that I have pretty much reached that blissful state where I have enough toys already that she is incapable of discerning when another toy is added to the chest.

"Is that a new rifle?"

"Absolutely not, I have had this rifle for ages, I just rarely get it out to shoot it."

Finger eze solved all my signal finger bashing problems with .470. Also After I got the finger bashed a few times i figured out how to grip the rifle to prevent it.

As far as .470 VS .450/400...

Ah if all of lifes problems could be so succulent.

The comparison on my mind is Cindy Crawford Vs Penelope Cruz.

I say wring one out then grab the other and give her a spin. keep or discard or retain both one or the other.

A shame that the fat .470 became the popular big double rifle cartridge instead of the .450 Nitro which permits a slenderer rifle. I understand why this happened circa 1900 when the Brits banned .45 in India, but that was water over the dam when the current revival of double rifles began. One reason the .450-400 is so nice is that it begins with the .450 Nitro case. Heck, a .470 is as thick across the breeches as a .500.

For what it is worth I find the 400 to be sooo much easier to shoot. My limited experience with the 470 is that it is not fun to shoot at all. The 400 really is quite fun. You know that you ave shot a rifle but it will not hurt you .

The best of all worlds is to have both.
ES.

quote:

Originally posted by vigillinus:
A shame that the fat .470 became the popular big double rifle cartridge instead of the .450 Nitro which permits a slenderer rifle. ...

Just a question of the users' desire in weight...

470 NE at 1850 with cast bullets is a hoot
2150 is strong recoil

Jeffe

Just bumping this thread, as I also have a .470NE that I love to shoot, but I have seen so much chatter about the 450/400 that has me really interested.

I know this is an old thread and I may not be using the search function as well as I should, but is there any more info about the differences?

Thanks guys, I have really loved this site since I found it.

I think the .470 is more versatile. A .450/.400 is marginal for elephant whereas a .470 will be fine. The only areas where I think a .450/.400 get the nod are weight (rifles will be a tad lighter) and recoil (but the edge in stopping power will go to the .470).

Thanks, I just used the search function a little more and found a WEALTH of info... looks like there has been some pretty good debate here in the past!

Like I said I love my 470 double, and thats what has me interested in the smaller calibers.

I own a .470NE double (Searcy) and two doubles in 450/400 3" (Searcy and V-C). I love all 3 rifles, but there are some differences worth mentioning. First of all, in the recoil area, the .470 really thumps. By contrast, I could shoot either 450/400 all day. This makes no difference when hunting because you would never have to shoot a double "all day" - but if you wanted to shoot more than 10 rounds or so at the range, you will find the 450/400 much more comfortable. The smaller rifle is a bit lighter, and that is a plus when walking all day. I have shot 3 cape buffalo with my .470 and one with my Searcy 450/400. Peformance was similar with both rifles in taking the buffalo - the softs stayed in the animals and the solids exited. I have shot only one elephant, that being a tuskless this past year, and I shot it with my Searcy 450/400 and Barnes banded solids. I missed the brain on the first shot and had to put in a couple of heart / lung shots to kill the animal. It went only 50 yards before expiring. I did not feel undergunned with the 450/400 in the least. So, for my money, the 450/400 is "enough gun" for tuskless and smaller animals. If I was going after a big tusker, I would reach first for the .470NE. But, for a buffalo hunt, the 450/400 is a delight to carry, and its' light recoil means I know I will never think about a flinch or banging one of my fingers or knuckles when I pull the trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by vigillinus:
A shame that the fat .470 became the popular big double rifle cartridge instead of the .450 Nitro which permits a slenderer rifle. .

Not an issue with today's modern metal and actions. I wouldn't want a smaller action than what my 470 was provided with.
The 450/400's advantage is that it is easily shot with a detachable scope. Ideal for one who prefers to go Safari with one rifle only.

yeah, if I am understanding everybody correctly and I do not want to give up my 470 then its probably best just to own both!

Both is a good thing!

Mike, I'm reading Will's second book, "Elephant and Elephant Guns." Don't let him catch you even thinking about a .450-400 in connection with the brutes!

Gents:
As to the issue of a slender double, the low pressure of the .450 no2 allows this brute to be built on a smaller frame. My .450 no2 Lang is more slender than my .450-400 Harrison and Hussey. As said above, recoil is far more mild in the .450-400 and is more in line with an all around rifle whereas the .470 class of cartridges are basically big game rounds but certainly be used for smaller game if the shooter can tolerate the recoil. Any double rifle cartridge, regardless of size can be used for anything due to the range limitations of an open sighted double. I think it boils down to what the shooter wants in a rifle, cartridge combination, not what the cartridge was made to do.
Cheers,
Cal

I own and shoot both. I love the 470, but the 450-400 is, for me, the "cat's meow" when it comes to carrying and comfortable shooting. My 450-400 is deadly accurate with iron sights, the Trijicon RMR or with the Leupold 1.5X5 scope. I've shot two buffalo in the last couple of years with the 450-400, and both of them were dead with one shot. Insurance shots followed, but they were just that-insurance shots. Just my personal experience. Here are pics of the two buffalo shot with the 450-400 in 2012 and in 2011:

I do agree that the 450/400 is a much lighter weapon than the average 470 or at least it should be as I have seen one 12 1/2 lb 450/400 and it has much less recoil.

Imo, the 450/400 works just fine on buffalo. I do prefer the added thump of the 470 when it comes to stopping an elephant charge. You just can't afford to not have has much thump as possible when that happens.

465H&H

I just got back from my first safari and I took 80% of my animals with the 470double that was given to me by my dad.

It was so much fun to carry and at 11.2lbs I never felt the recoil while shooting at game... I never felt like it was too heavy either and I think I'm pretty average at 6ft 170lbs.

I guess I am just fishing for a reason to look at new guns.

A good PH friend of mine always says a .450/.400 kills about like a .375 H&H no more no less. Where as a .470 NE at 2150 is serious medicine...not quite as good as a .500 NE but close...and with just as much recoil in my opinion and why I shoot a .500 NE.

So...a .450/.400 ~ .375 H&H for killing power.

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleJB:
I just got back from my first safari and I took 80% of my animals with the 470double that was given to me by my dad.

It was so much fun to carry and at 11.2lbs I never felt the recoil while shooting at game... I never felt like it was too heavy either and I think I'm pretty average at 6ft 170lbs.

I guess I am just fishing for a reason to look at new guns.

6' is "pretty average"???

Damn ...

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleJB:
I just got back from my first safari and I took 80% of my animals with the 470double that was given to me by my dad.

It was so much fun to carry and at 11.2lbs I never felt the recoil while shooting at game... I never felt like it was too heavy either and I think I'm pretty average at 6ft 170lbs.

I guess I am just fishing for a reason to look at new guns.

6' is "pretty average"???

Damn ...

When dad is 6' 4" and little brother is 6'7" its hard to think of yourself as tall.

JB, No offense, sir, but saying it's fun to carry an 11.2-pound rifle around the hunting fields Africa suggests to me that you are nowhere near Social Security age, unlike some of us ...

Well, I love my bolt rifles and have never quite totally warmed up to the doubles I own, but recently decided to give them one more try, with the emphasis on fun to shoot but capable of handling mostly Cape Buffalo and maybe an Elephant, so last month I ordered a .450/400 Chapuis from JJ. Now the question, should I scope it or go with the doctor optic red dot?

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
Well, I love my bolt rifles and have never quite totally warmed up to the doubles I own, but recently decided to give them one more try, with the emphasis on fun to shoot but capable of handling mostly Cape Buffalo and maybe an Elephant, so last month I ordered a .450/400 Chapuis from JJ. Now the question, should I scope it or go with the doctor optic red dot?

If it's already going to be w/JJ, why not have it set up for both with QD mounts? Scope whenever you want, and follow ups or otherwise with the red dot.

Tygersman,

I was giving that some thought, especially since I own a set of pivot mounts for a Chapuis already. I think I'll call JJ tomorrow and ask.
If that works out, I might just sell the other two doubles.

Charles, Tigers pleasantly surprised me Saturday night. Back in the hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
JB, No offense, sir, but saying it's fun to carry an 11.2-pound rifle around the hunting fields Africa suggests to me that you are nowhere near Social Security age, unlike some of us ...

Hah! Sorry, Im still on a high from my trip. Yes it was fun because I had dreamed of Africa my whole life... hunting with a double, that I have trained with and became very confident and comfortable with, made it that much more fun.

BENGO

Definately get your 450/400 fitted with BOTH a good scope and a Doctor Optic.

For you guys that have 450/470 doubles, I have the answer for you. Get a second double in 9,3x74R, or 375 Flanged, with scope in quality quick detach mounts, to use as your second Safari Rifle.

I have always used my 9,3x74R as the lighter gun to a 450 No2 or a 450/400.

I have taken cape buff and elephant with the 9,3 as well, no problems.

Got a 375 H&H Flanged on order and being built by Butch. Can't wait!

If I had to, I could live, and hunt quite nicely, world wide, with three double rifles, and one combination gun!

All side by side, they would be:

#1~ combination gun with a 20 Ga shot barrel, and a 8X57mm Rimmed with facility for a quick detach scope.

#2~ a 375H&H flanged double rifle with Q/D scope mount

#3~ a 450/400NE 3 inch double rifle with Q/D scope mount

#4~ a 500NE double rifle also in my case Q/D facility for a one power illuminated scope or Doctor sight.

The reason for the scopes on all doubles in Q/D scope mounts is I suffer with Macular degeneration in my right eye, and I’m right handed so I need the one power scope so I can shoot with both eyes open for close in instinctive shooting. People with good eyes would still benefit by a Q/D scope on the combo, and the two smaller double rifles.

.........................................................................

I bought a .450/.400 because that's what turned up, and it's great to shoot and seems to work. If I were going to Africa again, though, I might prefer something heavier, if only for psychological reasons: despite Pondoro's love of the calibre, it's hard to believe in a DG rifle with less felt recoil than a .338 mag.

I have shot several cape buff and seveal elephants with my 450 No2, as well as some plains game.

I have also killed a few cape buff, an elephant, and a lion, as well as some plains game, and a bear, a couple of caribou with a 450/400.

I do believe in Physics, and I know the 450's and the 470's are a little bigger hammer than the 450/400.

But, you can only kill game so dead. I did not feel under gunned when using the 450/400 as my Primary big bore.

No doubt the 450/400 is easier to shoot than a 450 or a 470.

It is also a much better allround double rifle, especially if scoped.

I think a scoped 450/400 double rifle is one of the best hunting rifles on the Planet.

For a "client", only if you can take the extra recoil, and you will be hunting a lot of elephants, would a 450 or a 470 be a better choice for a double rifle than a 450/400 IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
I bought a .450/.400 because that's what turned up, and it's great to shoot and seems to work. If I were going to Africa again, though, I might prefer something heavier, if only for psychological reasons: despite Pondoro's love of the calibre, it's hard to believe in a DG rifle with less felt recoil than a .338 mag.

Sam what 450/400 double rifle do you have? Being in OZ would present some trade difficulty, but I have a 470NE that has taken two elephant, three cape buffalo, and lots of wild boar, but is in absolutely new condition
It is a Merkel shoe lump barreled extractor barrel set rifle with a Kick~ease recoil pad in a Merkel factory fitted case, RCBS dies,shell holder and trim die. I also have about 100 once fired 470NE Federal nicol plated brass, for reloading.

I'm 77 yrs old and on a fixed income so will likely never again hunt Africa so the 450/400NE 3 inch would be more usefull for me and the 470NE would give you a bigger hammer. Think about it if we could make a deal and the transfer wouldn't be too much I'm open to a trade depending on what rifle you have.

The 470 is a great rifle! I have used it extensively in Africa and would not trade it for any other caliber. There is a trend to produce rifles in this caliber that are too light in weight. That makes shooting them uncomfortable and will eventually cause a shooter to flinch. My Rigby weighs around 11.3 pounds and it is a pleasure to shoot. If they weight is reduced to say 10 pounds, it is uncomfortable. Westley Richards built some 500's that weighed around 10.5 pounds and they will beat you silly. They have redesigned the rifle to come in near 12 pounds and that is where they should be. Why shoot a gun that is uncomfortable to you?

Luvtoreload,
For me, Any more than 10.5lbs is uncomfortable to carry all day but I find the recoil is fine.
So Its definitely a personal thing. For me I carry the rifle more than I shoot it.
Oh, and the 470 is one of my favourites also.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
I own and shoot both. I love the 470, but the 450-400 is, for me, the "cat's meow" when it comes to carrying and comfortable shooting. My 450-400 is deadly accurate with iron sights, the Trijicon RMR or with the Leupold 1.5X5 scope. I've shot two buffalo in the last couple of years with the 450-400, and both of them were dead with one shot. Insurance shots followed, but they were just that-insurance shots. Just my personal experience. Here are pics of the two buffalo shot with the 450-400 in 2012 and in 2011:

Nice looking buff in the bottom pic.