I just stopped by the local gun shop and they had a nice Savage-Fox BSE H-series 12ga 2 3/4" double barrel shotgun used for $550. I notice that XS Headspace is converting a Merkel into a double rifle. Is this a possibility with this particular shotgun or am I setting myself up for a lot of pain and $$$? Since remington's SPR22 45-70 is ify at best I'm considering all my options. Not sure if this is even a posibility with this gun or not?

Thanks

Brad

A) I am not a big fan of shotgun conversions, what many shotguns are proofed at and pressure that they are designed around are much less than rifles.
B) The Savage Model B is not much of a gun to put this much work into, I think I would look for a higher quality gun.
C) A 12ga frame will be large for a double rifle. A 20ga frame would be much nicer.
D) You asked if you were setting yourself up for a lot of pain, the short answer is more than likely YES.
E) Save up and get a factory double of reasonable quality. Buying a double rifle made in Russia sounds like a poor investment and will probably turn out to be a hateful experience.
Look at O/U's as often you can get a well made gun for 50% of the entry level high quality SXS.

Brad

I agree with Kebco 100%.

Get yourself a 9,3x74R double.
I can highly recommend the Chapuis.
I have the standard grade UGEX and it has been a most excellent hunting rifle.

Research my previous posts, I have taken a lot of game with it.

The only thing I would change about it is that I wish I had a set of 20ga bbls for it.

The Bible says to not cast pearls before swine.

Brad
buy the book, building double rifles on shotgun actions ... get it from brownells, and see.
the savqge doesn't meet my criteria for a rifle

The Savage would be a poor choice for such a conversion and, in my view, very few shotgun actions are suitable. Contrary to popular wishful thinking, purpose built nitro double rifles aren't built on shotgun actions, and never have been. With these so called conversions, you end up with a geehawed shotgun rather than a real double rifle.

One point that I'll have to disagree with Kebco on is the frame size. If you're going to damn the torpedos and convert a shotgun to a large bore DR anyway, no way on the 20 bore frame. Twelve gauge minimum - they aren't DR actions and you'll need the size. Merkel has built their .470s and .500s on 20 gauge frames (remove the buttstock from one, and you'll find "20" inside a rectangle on the frame) for quite a while now without major problems...but that frame is beefed up considerably in comparison to other shotgun actions. It's still a mistake though, as these frames are too small to permit good weight distribution in those calibers, so their handling suffers.

Sincerely, I believe your money would be far better spent on a basic, purpose built DR of decent quality. I understand that you want a larger bore, but for the money that it sounds like you have to spend, that may not be feasible. You're far better off with a basic purpose-built double rifle in 9.3X74R. The UGEX Chapuis in 9.3X74R is a helluva lot of rifle for the price. It isn't a "best", and it has it's flaws, but it's a better gun than the price suggests. Lesser DRs fall into the "better off waiting and saving more money" category for me.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I recently looked at a Savage-Stevens 16ga conversion with tubes in a 45-70. It was nicely done but I passed on it as it is truley a 16ga shotgun conversion and I am not sure it would make me happy to own or shoot. It was going for a hefty price. Considering that the original 16ga was going off at 300-400 USD. I know of one member on this forum whow owns and shoots and simply loves his Baikal in 45-70. I might just wait until the movie version comnes to cable where I can better afford it.just my opinion.

I have a novel idea-why don't you make more money and buy a real double rifle? If you really want it, then you will go out and make the money to buy it. If you don't really want a double rifle, then you will come up with excuses why you can't have one. I am totally serious. Do you have any idea how many ways there are to legally make money? Pick one or two of the ways you like and go do it. Then take some of th emoney you make and go buy a safe full of double rifles.

If you are bound and determined to build a double rifle on a shotgun action, I sure as hell would not use XSheadspace as a guide!!! And if you do not know why I say that, then you have a lot to learn about double rifles and shotguns before you can even entertain the idea of doing this conversion yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
I have a novel idea-why don't you make more money and buy a real double rifle? If you really want it, then you will go out and make the money to buy it. If you don't really want a double rifle, then you will come up with excuses why you can't have one. I am totally serious. Do you have any idea how many ways there are to legally make money? Pick one or two of the ways you like and go do it. Then take some of th emoney you make and go buy a safe full of double rifles.

If you are bound and determined to build a double rifle on a shotgun action, I sure as hell would not use XSheadspace as a guide!!! And if you do not know why I say that, then you have a lot to learn about double rifles and shotguns before you can even entertain the idea of doing this conversion yourself.

A little brisk, IMO, but all true none the less! $5K is not that hard to come by if you really want an entry level double rifle.

If you do get into building your own double rifle on a cheap shotgun action, you'll likely spend over $5K before you get through, and what you will have is likely not going to be worth half what you have spent on it! I predict, as well, you will be totally aware of the reason double rifles cost the way they do, when you finish!

Understand what you want. You will not make a dangerous game stopper out of a shotgun. It is not cheap if done correctly.

You will want the firing pins bushed. You will need to look at low pressure rounds, 38-55, 30-30, etc.

You will need to consider restocking.

If all you ever intend to hunt with is boar, deer, etc a conversion can do you well. BUT it will not be chaap. You will be looking at $2,500 to $4,000 for the conversion done correctly. You will need to find a smith who is very familiar with conversions and can guarantee accuracy.

Having said all the above. I have a gun that is in the process of conversion. So, I have some idea as to costs and the issues involved.

Pete

A little brisk, with emphasis on the "little." My life experience of managing and motviating people has show me that 11 out of 10 times that a man needs the "stop whining and giving me excuses; get off your ass and go do somthing about it!" speach, if it is not direct it will surely fall on deaf ears. This oen was much toned down from how I would have delivered it in person. It is the rare man who can honestly look at himself and find himself lacking, and then be motivated to change the way he sees the world. Of those who can, they appreciate and understand the directness and it spurs them to better themselves.

I am 100% dead serious. You have no idea how tickled I would be to log onto AR 4 years from now and see a post where Brad posted pics of his new-to-him Searck, Merkel, whatever, double rifle! That would honestly make me more happy than just about any post on AR has ever made me feel. And I would love to hear what Brad did differently to be able to make more money to spend on his guns.

Marc:

Message received. I too am in the profession of getting folks off their duff's and getting back into life. All too many of them think the answer is a pill when as you know it’s a swift verbal kick in hind quarters. Yes, I do have the ability to make extra money in fact I feel very blessed in this regard. The downside is I have two daughters and a pile of debt I need to address first. I am very serious about a major safe cleaning to acquire a nice double. My question was mainly geared at testing the water regarding these conversions I see popping up all over the place. I wouldn't spend the money trying to turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse unless it was peanuts which, I now know its not. Your advice is Biblical in that when a man finds a pearl of great value he sells everything to purchase it. I’ll most likely pick up a nice used Searcy once I get my finical situation under control and be Damm happy with it to boot.

Thanks Brad

Stay AWAY from that Remington. it is a russian made POS.

Brad-

Sounds to me like you made the right decision in shifting your priorities in this stage in life. Just this week I was talking to a friend and we were discussing the hit a family takes due to the pursuit of fame and fortune in a certain field. What seemed like the right thing for a single man to do is not right for a father of young children to do.

I will tell you a funny little story on double rifles and family demands that is especially appropriate right now. I know "a guy" who graduated from high school 20 years ago this month. Before he graduated in May of 1988 he vovwed that within 2 years of graduating from college he would own a double rifle in a true stopping caliber and within 5 years would hunt dangerous game in Africa with said DR. BTW-this was back in the day when only true hunting nuts even knew what a stopping rifle was and could name you the Big 5.

Fast forward to May 1996 and he graduated from college.

As an interesting aside-note that said DR loonie was in college under 3 presidents. He started under Regan, finished under CLinton, and had Bush 41 squeezed in the middle

OK, back ot mid-'94. He decided to marry a woman who already had a child. One of the decisions he had to wrestle with was the fact that this would kill his time line for buying a DR and going on a dangerous game hunt. But he felt the girl and her little boy were worth the sacrifice.

Now fast forward to 1996. The woman left took all of his money and 90% of his posessions. It is now 2 years after college, he has no double rifle, has no wife, has no money, and only has an ex-wife who is determined to take every penny left to his name.

That poor bastard is obviously one of the doumbest and unluckiest guys on earth!

BTW-I hearitly encourage you to come up with a plan for how to get a real DR. Maybe soemthing you can do right now to squirrel away even a small amount each month. And then an accelerated plan when the family is older. At that time you can do some things to generate extra cash. Pick a date when you will buy it, and be sure you are able to buy it by that date. Don't get sidetracked like the idiot mentioned above. The only thing i ask is that you post pics on AR of your DR and some L-R groups when you get it!

A big NO on the Savage! Read Ellis Brown's book if you want info, and forget about the conversion, unless you have a lathe, milling machine, and more time than money. And spent a lot of your spare time building assorted rifles and shotguns for the last 40 years, like I did.

quote:

Now fast forward to 1996. The woman left took all of his money and 90% of his posessions. It is now 2 years after college, he has no double rifle, has no wife, has no money, and only has an ex-wife who is determined to take every penny left to his name.

That poor bastard is obviously one of the doumbest and unluckiest guys on earth!

And, NOW, he REALLY needs that double......

I have seen several Savage/Stevens double with cracked frames, I sure would want to stay VERY low presure, like a 22lr.