What is a reasonable price on a new rifle described above?

Like these?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti....aspx?Item=167126065

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
What is a reasonable price on a new rifle described above?

What? I thought you were done with the 500.

It is kind of like marriage Will. I got divorced and said never again. Now I am engaged.

I think when I had the other one, something was going on with me . I was flinching at everything, even a 22. I missed mire times by far in my 06 safari than I have in the other 14 safaris combined.

I think I am going to hunt elephants and buff only for the forseeable future. The 500 is good for those .

Besides, I need to spend my money on something before Obama takes it all.lol

Well, if you feel that way you should have gave me that 500.

If cost is not an issue I would find a used single trigger WR. Short of that I'd opt for the Krieghoff because of the straight stock (less recoil) and safety.

Even though that safety is goofy on the Krieghoff it can keep you from getting shot by the gunbearer (everyone needs a gunbearer eventually if they hunt old enough, so no crap please!).

Larry,

I would echo Bill's comments. As between the Merkel and Krieghoff, I would get the Krieghoff. That said, if you have made up your mind and are interested in a used Merkel .500 give me a shout and I can shoot you some pictures of mine.

Interesting advice. I am still thinking about it. I haven't decided.

I am not too worried about the gunbearer. I won't let them carry mine,ever. Right now I run 5 miles a day. I carry a 17 pound curling bar on 3 mile walks a couple of times a week. I am old but I can handle it.

Having been there before.

"Fetching" price +/-

140-2 big nitro's BLNE $7,000
BLE $8,000

140-2.1 big nitro's BLNE $8,500
BLE $9,500

Reality hurts.

Larry,

The Krieghoffs are probably the nicest in craftsmanship between Blaser, Merkel, and Krieghoff. I'd forget Blaser existed. Not my favorite. The Krieghoff cocker is a pain in the butt and quite frankly superfolus! That said I'd probably go with the Merkel. A newer Searcy or better yet a Heym might be a better option.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
The Krieghoff cocker is a pain in the ass and quite frankly superfolus!

I beg to differ. It is hardly superfluous, it is the safest way to carry a double hands down unless the double is unloaded. In terms of being a pain in the ass, I think that comes down to practice. I have used it in as close an encounter as most hunters not gored or stomped will ever have and had no difficulties reacting instinctively with it.

Perhaps a better word/saying than superfluous is fixing a nonexistant problem and difficult to push in a hurry. Especially with slippery/swety fingers. I have no doubt it's only a matter of simply learning and getting use to it with practice. Never the less you would have to smoke crack to think it's every bit as easy to manuver as a conventional tang safety. Again tang safeties have been around for a LONG time and people have some how managed to stay safe, so the cocker kind of seems like fixing a non existant problem. For someone like me who grew up with a SxS shotgun I'm use to a tang safety and wouldn't want it any other way. Just like I grew up with manual safeties and I wouldn't want it any other way. I would imagine most other people would feel the same if they have a preference like I do. I figure they should know what they're getting into before they buy.

Brett

Always pointing the muzzle of a rifle in a safe direction seems to work for me.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Now I am engaged.

Larry, good to see your engaged again have repented of such madness and getting a real DR caliber again.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

Never the less you would have to smoke crack to think it's every bit as easy to manuver as a conventional tang safety.

Ditto on believing that a tang safety is every bit as safe. It cannot even be reasonably debated or asserted that an cocked gun on safe is as safe or safer than an uncocked gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
Perhaps a better word/saying than superfluous is fixing a nonexistant problem and difficult to push in a hurry. Especially with slippery/swety fingers. I have no doubt it's only a matter of simply learning and getting use to it with practice. Never the less you would have to smoke crack to think it's every bit as easy to manuver as a conventional tang safety. Again tang safeties have been around for a LONG time and people have some how managed to stay safe, so the cocker kind of seems like fixing a non existant problem. For someone like me who grew up with a SxS shotgun I'm use to a tang safety and wouldn't want it any other way. Just like I grew up with manual safeties and I wouldn't want it any other way. I would imagine most other people would feel the same if they have a preference like I do. I figure they should know what they're getting into before they buy.

Brett

Brett:

I don't mean to be flippant but I was just wondering, have you ever had a Blaser or a Krieghoff or had any experience with either? Have you ever had or shot a Merkel in a .500?

Dave Bush

+ 1 on your question.

Nitro450exp

"K-Gun owner"

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
Perhaps a better word/saying than superfluous is fixing a nonexistant problem and difficult to push in a hurry. Especially with slippery/swety fingers. I have no doubt it's only a matter of simply learning and getting use to it with practice. Never the less you would have to smoke crack to think it's every bit as easy to manuver as a conventional tang safety. Again tang safeties have been around for a LONG time and people have some how managed to stay safe, so the cocker kind of seems like fixing a non existant problem. For someone like me who grew up with a SxS shotgun I'm use to a tang safety and wouldn't want it any other way. Just like I grew up with manual safeties and I wouldn't want it any other way. I would imagine most other people would feel the same if they have a preference like I do. I figure they should know what they're getting into before they buy.

Brett

Brett:

I don't mean to be flippant but I was just wondering, have you ever had a Blaser or a Krieghoff or had any experience with either? Have you ever had or shot a Merkel in a .500?

You aren't being flippant that's a valid question. However someone doesn't have to owned a gun for 30 year before he can form an opinion on it. I haven't owned or shot the K guns, but I have handled them and worked the cocker. You only have to manuver the cocker once or twice to get a feel that it's harder to manuver than a conventional tang safely. I understand the safety implications of the cocker system I just don't think there was a significant problem in the first place that it fixed. The K guns are relatively nicely built for the money. Much better than the Blasers to my eye. I haven't owned a Blaser but I've shot and handled them. The lines are God aweful, the cocker is harder to manuever than a tang safety, the sights are horrible, and it doesn't handle that well (to me). I haven't owned a Merkel. I've handled a number of them and shot one. I'm not familiar with the 500 and if it's weighted propperly or any other flaw it may have. The 470s I've handled seemed nice for the money. My point isn't to kick sand in everyones face that owns one. My point is people are giving Larry advice on doubles. I don't feel people telling him to get a Blaser or K gun is good advice for these reasons. Larry is a smart guy and I don't expect him to blindly trust anything I say. I'm sure he'll do his due dilligence and make an informed oppinion of his own if he hasn't already.

Brett

Gentlemen I'm as guilty as the next guy of forming a forboding opinion of the Kreighoff double rifle when it first came on the market. This was the same reason, lack of understanding the system, some still think the K-gun is a bugger-man,when it has proven not to be. If anyone thinks the K-gun is not accurate, just watch Mike Jines shoot his 500NE K-gun sometime!

The K-gun is as safe as an unloaded double rifle even when both chambers are loaded, if the de-cocker is in the safe position. The same can be said for the Blazer, but only in the same condition. The Blazer doesnt recock it's self after fireing and opening to re-charge the chambers, but must be re-cocked any time the action is opened, for any reason. DON'T forget to re-cock the blazer for shots three and four. The fact that the blazer doesn't re-cock it's self is a large difference between the K-gun, and the blazer.

The system simply releaves the spring tention on the strikers leaving the striker in the cocked position, but with nothing to drive them. On intering the final stalk you simply push the decocker lever forward till it activates the striker springs, and the rifle is ready to fire. NOW when the rifle is fired one or both barrels and the action is broken to re-load the chambers the rifle cocks it's self, and is ready to fire again one or both barrels. Most folks, me included, thought that the rifle had to be re-cocked every time the rife was opened to re-load, bu that isn't the case with the K-gun, but it "IS" with the Blazer which de-cocks it's self when opened fopr any reason, and is the rifle , IMO, that should be avoided if in a dangerous game setting.

The K-gun is a good rifle if it fits you! I simply doesn't fit me, and I like the Merkel better for that reason only.

It's a free country so buy what you like, as long as you are willing to live or die with the choise!

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
Larry,

The Krieghoffs are probably the nicest in craftsmanship between Blaser, Merkel, and Krieghoff. I'd forget Blaser existed. Not my favorite. The Krieghoff cocker is a pain in the ass and quite frankly superfolus! That said I'd probably go with the Merkel. A newer Searcy or better yet a Heym might be a better option.

Brett

OMG, Pigs can now fly, & Hell has frozen over.
Brett has said something I actually COMPLETELY agree with. I've got one and that damn thing can get you killed (or somebody else) ANYTHING but "K"

Nganga

We need to compile a list of all the PHs with K-guns and boycott them as they obviously are all wreckless individuals with a death wish.

As to the original question $8000 to $8500 seems to be a reasonable price for the Merkel depending on engraving and ejectors.

http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100079983

quote:

We need to compile a list of all the PHs with K-guns

Yup! Those are the ones with brains who won't shoot you in the back! Let's get the list! Now Blasers, off course, are a whole different topic!
Peter.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike70560:
We need to compile a list of all the PHs with K-guns and boycott them as they obviously are all

Mike, respectfully, it's guy like you who do not know your own limitations, and don't seem to understand the seperate rolls played by the recreational sport hunters rifle and the PROFESSIONALS role with his rifle, that gets you or somebody else hurt.

Do you have first hand experience following up wounded whatever in really thick stuff with a "K"?

If so please tell me what makes the "K" safe

Not intended to be confrontational, just couldn't make it sound any different.

Nganga

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
Do you have first hand experience following up wounded whatever in really thick stuff with a "K"?

I do have experience with a K gun and a charging cow elephant at five paces. The cocking lever worked perfectly, the gun worked flawlessly and everyone walked away shaken but uninjured. My PH, a respected elephant hunter (okay, well maybe not respected, but an elephant hunter ), worked hard on trying to get me to leave the rifle for him.

Mike,
Good work. Now please honestly, when did you cock it?. It is not possible to cock the damn thing as it is brought to bear, it must either be cocked while your thumb is almost straight with you forearm extended or carried cocked. That is unless there is something wrong with mine as it requires 35# of force to cock. That being said, to agree with Brett, what the heck is wrong with a traditional tang?

Nganga

Nganga,

I will give you Five-hundred American Dollars for that death trap.

Just trying to save your life, man.

regards,

Rich
Searcy User

Nganga,

What the hell are you talking about? Not knowing my limitations? Not knowing the difference in roles? You do not know me.

I own a 470 and have about 500 rounds through it. There is a problem with the K-Gun but it is not the cocking device. I have hunted with it once. Followed up a buffalo in the thick jess, took 5 shots to finish it off, PH never fired, let me handle it because I continued to shoot as needed. I also took a charge from a cow elephant that broke off the charge at less than 5 yards. If needed I was ready to fire with the K-Gun.

I did not say it was safer, although I believe it is just like Mac explained.

I do think it is ridiculous that people think it is a death trap. It may not be for everybody and that is fine, everybody has their favorite. I have an automatic safety on my Boswell. It drives me insane to shoot it. Some guys like the automatic safeties, but I am not demanding all automatic safety rifles should be destroyed.

We can be confrontational if you like, does not bother me in the least. As far as saying "respectfully" that is just asking for a pass to be disrespectful.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike70560:
As to the original question $8000 to $8500 seems to be a reasonable price for the Merkel depending on engraving and ejectors."

Mike, I thought I was going to be the only one to answer the fricken question.

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Donald Soter:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike70560:
As to the original question $8000 to $8500 seems to be a reasonable price for the Merkel depending on engraving and ejectors."

Mike, I thought I was going to be the only one to answer the fricken question.

Don

Where is the best place steak?
Answer: You really want pork chops.
I am guilty of it too.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
Nganga,

What the hell are you talking about? Not knowing my limitations? Not knowing the difference in roles? You do not know me.

I own a 470 and have about 500 rounds through it. There is a problem with the K-Gun but it is not the cocking device. I have hunted with it once. Followed up a buffalo in the thick jess, took 5 shots to finish it off, PH never fired, let me handle it because I continued to shoot as needed. I also took a charge from a cow elephant that broke off the charge at less than 5 yards. If needed I was ready to fire with the K-Gun.

I did not say it was safer, although I believe it is just like Mac explained.

I do think it is ridiculous that people think it is a death trap. It may not be for everybody and that is fine, everybody has their favorite. I have an automatic safety on my Boswell. It drives me insane to shoot it. Some guys like the automatic safeties, but I am not demanding all automatic safety rifles should be destroyed.

We can be confrontational if you like, does not bother me in the least. As far as saying "respectfully" that is just asking for a pass to be disrespectful.

OK fine, I'll ask you that same question, when did you cock it?

Nganga

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
Nganga,

What the hell are you talking about? Not knowing my limitations? Not knowing the difference in roles? You do not know me.

I own a 470 and have about 500 rounds through it. There is a problem with the K-Gun but it is not the cocking device. I have hunted with it once. Followed up a buffalo in the thick jess, took 5 shots to finish it off, PH never fired, let me handle it because I continued to shoot as needed. I also took a charge from a cow elephant that broke off the charge at less than 5 yards. If needed I was ready to fire with the K-Gun.

I did not say it was safer, although I believe it is just like Mac explained.

I do think it is ridiculous that people think it is a death trap. It may not be for everybody and that is fine, everybody has their favorite. I have an automatic safety on my Boswell. It drives me insane to shoot it. Some guys like the automatic safeties, but I am not demanding all automatic safety rifles should be destroyed.

We can be confrontational if you like, does not bother me in the least. As far as saying "respectfully" that is just asking for a pass to be disrespectful.

OK fine, I'll ask you that same question, when did you cock it?

Nganga

I'll tell you when he cocked it, BEFORE he shouldered it. They are impossible to cock as you shoulder the weapon in the manner in which you would take the safety off on a shotgun. Worse yet, trying to do so with sweaty/slippery hands could get you killed as you fumble about trying to cock it. It is a solution to a problem that never existed.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
Now please honestly, when did you cock it?

When it needed to be cocked.

Scary Thought: I bought my K-rifle .500NE for $6400. That WAS a while back...

Rich

quote:

When it needed to be cocked.

+1

quote:

I'll tell you when he cocked it, BEFORE he shouldered it. They are impossible to cock as you shoulder the weapon in the manner in which you would take the safety off on a shotgun. Worse yet, trying to do so with sweaty/slippery hands could get you killed as you fumble about trying to cock it. It is a solution to a problem that never existed.

I appreciate you answering for me since obviously you observed my actions.

I can cock my K-Gun with it in my shoulder. I always have known my looks are way above average, I guess my strength is above average also.

However no matter what rifle I am shooting, if it is in my shoulder it is off of safe and ready to fire. If it is not in my shoulder it is on safe. The safety is coming off as the rifle is being raised to my shoulder. Not a very complicated concept.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:

quote:

We need to compile a list of all the PHs with K-guns

Yup! Those are the ones with brains who won't shoot you in the back! Let's get the list! Now Blasers, off course, are a whole different topic!
Peter.

A PH can get away with carrying these things because they are NEVER behind a client and can carry them cocked. That, and the fact that most PHs I have met are not gun guys, a rifle to them is simply a tool. The role of a PH's rifle is completely different to the role of a tourist hunter's. Most PHs hardly even care what ammo they run through it (though most are particular about bullets they usually don't pay any attention to what the load is other than what bullet is in the case), and I've yet to see one who gave 2 shits about DR regulation. The fact that some PHs carry K guns is not exactly a glowing endorsement in my mind. I know of one DG PH who routinely carries a .458 Lott with a broken stock that he admits could come apart at any time, but I doubt that anyone is going to argue the merits of the hunting of DG with rifles with cracked stocks.

Mike,
I cannot cock mine that way, neither can any of my friends or PH's I hunted with. I agree without exception your theory, safe unless on the shoulder. Hence, why I believe it is an unsafe device.

So in reality we are in complete agreement?

Nganga

quote:

I know of one DG PH who routinely carries a .458 Lott with a broken stock that he admits could come apart at any time, but I doubt that anyone is going to argue the merits of hunting DG with rifles with cracked stocks.

We will add him to the list.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:

quote:

I'll tell you when he cocked it, BEFORE he shouldered it. They are impossible to cock as you shoulder the weapon in the manner in which you would take the safety off on a shotgun. Worse yet, trying to do so with sweaty/slippery hands could get you killed as you fumble about trying to cock it. It is a solution to a problem that never existed.

I appreciate you answering for me since obviously you observed my actions.

I can cock my K-Gun with it in my shoulder. I always have known my looks are way above average, I guess my strength is above average also.

However no matter what rifle I am shooting, if it is in my shoulder it is off of safe and ready to fire. If it is not in my shoulder it is on safe. The safety is coming off as the rifle is being raised to my shoulder. Not a very complicated concept.

Actually, I have observed your actions.

This video that you posted previously over on the African Hunting Forum seems to contradict what you just posted above. Obviously you are mistaken as your cocking of the rifle before you ever shoulder it is plainly visible.

http://s135.photobucket.com/al...70Nitro200-09-19.flv

This is almost too funny. Read what I wrote.

The safety is coming off as the rifle is being raised to my shoulder.

Which is what happened in the video.

Pretty good reload for an extractor gun if I do say so myself. I even hit the bulleye all 4 shots, it is certainly not what I did at the Hoot and Shoot. I was star struck in the presence of MJines and bwanamrm I guess.

Shoot what you like. I have said the K-Gun is not for everybody. Mike Jines is one of the most respected hunters on this forum and is comfortable using it. That speaks volumes. Ganyana uses one. That also speaks volumes. There are others that I respect who do not like it, each to his own.

I can video me pushing it forward with the rifle in my shoulder if you like.