I was at the Cabelas near Portland, OR, on Sunday and the only double they had in the gun library was a Winchester 101 Grand European O/U in .257 Roberts. It was a lively little thing, but I would have to wonder how useful it would be if there were any sort of regulation issue. Anyone have field experience with one of these?

Bill, I've never heard of one that was properly regulated.

I think it was in the 1970s when
Winchester made up double rifles on the 101 frame. Some sold in the US and some, made in metric calibiers, were only offered in Europe.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
I think it was in the 1970s when
Winchester made up double rifles on the 101 frame. Some sold in the US and some, made in metric calibiers, were only offered in Europe.
Cal

Cal they were offered in the USA as well! They are very nice looking rifles, however like Biebs says they were rarely regulated very well.

I have one that is chambered for 9.3X74R that at fifty yards will print the bottom barrel in a tight little group about six inches high, and to the right. The top barrel shoots a tight group about four inches low and to the left.

These rifle were made by the same Japanese company that made the Winchester 101 shotgun, and it is quite evident they didn't understand the regulation process for a double rifle! Their shotguns were fine, but like Biebs since I bought this one I have found that none of the cute little rifles were regulated properly. Does this sound like another brand made by a shotgun maker? I really got stung when I bought this thing!

Mine is going to Aaron Little for regulation soon. I think if there is a problem with regulating this rifle, as is, and there may be because it is rumored that these rifles had the wedges hard brazed between the very thin barrels. We will see!

I think if that is true I will have Aaron remove the barrels from the mono block, and replace them with a pair of 30-30 barrels with a 1 in 10 twist and regulate them properly with factory 170 gr factory ammo and with the scope attached.
.......................................................................

Mac, eager to hear how the regulating turns out. Hope Aaron can make your Winchester useful.

I had one in 7x57 bought it because I had a full set of 101s and loved them. it came with a good scope and mount. sighted in top barrel with scope about 1.5 inch group at 100. I liked being able to shoot top barrel first for scope height reasons. bottom bbl was straight down the target 2-3 inches also in a nice group. sold it because accuracy was pitiful compared to my bolt guns but it would have been great for a double rifle guy I guess. did not have a use for it that fit what it was. liked it not sorry I sold it.

These were also made as combination o/u rifle/shotgun.
I lucked into one in .30-06/12 gauge several years ago. It came with a quality variable power scope and qd mount. Have used it for predator control and dove hunting in South Africa. Shoots 1-inch groups at 100 yards. A fun gun.

quote:

Originally posted by CRUSHER:
I had one in 7x57 bought it because I had a full set of 101s and loved them. it came with a good scope and mount. sighted in top barrel with scope about 1.5 inch group at 100. I liked being able to shoot top barrel first for scope height reasons. bottom bbl was straight down the target 2-3 inches also in a nice group. sold it because accuracy was pitiful compared to my bolt guns but it would have been great for a double rifle guy I guess. did not have a use for it that fit what it was. liked it not sorry I sold it.

Was your rifle fitted with two triggers? The reason I ask is, I've never seen a Winchester Grand European with two triggers, or a barrel selector. Every one I've seen has a single trigger, and a mechanical re-set trigger. They fire the bottom barrel first, and automatically switch to the top barrel for the second shot.

..........................................................................

single select trigger its been a few years but I think that's right came in used no story with it

top bbl first for sure

quote:

Originally posted by CRUSHER:
top bbl first for sure

Very odd indeed!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

I have one that is chambered for 9.3X74R that at fifty yards will print the bottom barrel in a tight little group about six inches high, and to the right. The top barrel shoots a tight group about four inches low and to the left.

I really got stung when I bought this thing!

You've been moaning about that rifle for years.
Should have just got your money back, walked away, and lived happily ever after.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
I was at the Cabelas near Portland, OR, on Sunday and the only double they had in the gun library was a Winchester 101 Grand European O/U in .257 Roberts. It was a lively little thing, but I would have to wonder how useful it would be if there were any sort of regulation issue. Anyone have field experience with one of these?

They were first released in the early 1980's, maybe '82 I think.
First one I handled was about 1983 and it was a 30-06.
Yes, sadly they do have regulation problems, but that can be fixed.
I've enjoyed hunting with one in 7x65R for the last 17 years or so.

quote:

Originally posted by 5seventy:

You've been moaning about that rifle for years.
Should have just got your money back, walked away, and lived happily ever after.

I was wondering how long it would take you to take a poke at me when I saw you back on AR a few days ago! As I thought, it didn't take long. 5seventy, you just can't resist it seems!

However I must tell you I have been trying for years to get this thing re-regulated but nobody wants to touch it, till just a few days ago when I talked the Aaron Little who has decided to take it on, or just build new barrels for it chambered for 375FL!

Hopefully I bid you a final Ga-day Mate!

Mac, my post was regarding your comments about getting stung with that rifle.

You make it sound like you bought the rifle in good faith, but ended up with the only Grand European on the planet that wouldn't regulate.

I thought you would have known that they weren't factory regulated when you bought it.

A 257 Roberts sounds like a rare one. I watch Antiques Roadshow - if you leave the regulation untouched it might be worth a fortune some day.

I bought a minty one s/h as a speculation for $1000 while on my honeymoon in 1985, knowing that new ones sold for $5000 (currency corrected). I soon discovered why, and making a 50% profit was all I could manage in selling it.

Outwardly, it was a sweet little rifle in a nice case and, as Mac said, Nikko made good shotguns.

quote:

Originally posted by 5seventy:
Mac, my post was regarding your comments about getting stung with that rifle.

You make it sound like you bought the rifle in good faith, but ended up with the only Grand European on the planet that wouldn't regulate.

I thought you would have known that they weren't factory regulated when you bought it.

I did not know the reputation of the Winchester Grand European over/unders for the simple reason I had little or no interest in O/U double rifles prior! This was only the second O/U double rifle I ever owned, and the first one was a Valmet many years ago bought from a friend face to face which was just fine. I had shot this rifle when it belonged to my friend. It was chambered for 375Winchester, and I had it re-chambered for 375JDJ, adjusted the regulation, and soldered permanently. Worked fine but I didn't keep it long, and traded it in on a S/S double.

This Winchester was bought from a poster on AR. I never had a chance to fire the rifle till about 30 days after it arrived at my licensed dealer because I was out of the country when it arrived, and it took me another couple of weeks to get ammo for it. By that time the proof period had expired and I couldn't send it back for a refund. So I simply decided to live with it and have it regulated. I found quite quickly that nobody here in the US wanted to touch this thing. If I had been aware of the reputation of the rifles I wouldn't even have considered it, especially at the price I paid for it.

Five years later it is still not regulated. However I just talked to Aaron Little in Newark, Texas and he has decided to take the job on! With what I paid, and the cost of repair it was certainly not a bargain!

Of course nobody knows everything, contrary to some peoples belief! I certainly learned something with this one!

............................................................One is never too old to learn.

quote:

This Winchester was bought from a poster on AR. I never had a chance to fire the rifle till about 30 days after it arrived at my licensed dealer because I was out of the country when it arrived, and it took me another couple of weeks to get ammo for it. By that time the proof period had expired and I couldn't send it back for a refund. So I simply decided to live with it and have it regulated.

When you first bought it you said.......
"This one regulate perfectly, with four shots, two from each barrel into a 2.5" group at 50 yds with open sights, off hand! I shot it only two hours after I bought it!"


Here



edited to add....
Anyway, hopefully Aaron can get it regulated for you. Judging by some photos I've seen on the net, he does very good work.

Once regulated, those rifles work really well.

quote:

Originally posted by 5seventy:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacD37:
This Winchester was bought from a poster on AR. I never had a chance to fire the rifle till about 30 days after it arrived at my licensed dealer because I was out of the country when it arrived, and it took me another couple of weeks to get ammo for it. By that time the proof period had expired and I couldn't send it back for a refund. So I simply decided to live with it and have it regulated. I found quite quickly that nobody here in the US wanted to touch this thing. If I had been aware of the reputation of the rifles I wouldn't even have considered it, especially at the price I paid for it.

Five years later it is still not regulated.

quote:

: by 5sevent
And yet back when you first bought it you said......
edited to add
Anyway, hopefully Aaron can get it regulated for you. Judging by some photos I've seen on the net, he does very good work.

Once regulated those rifles work really well.

quote:

By ME; This one regulate perfectly, with four shots, two from each barrel into a 2.5" group at 50 yds with open sights, off hand! I shot it only four hours after I bought it!

The above seems to conflict with my post in this thread! That is a true statement but not a complete one!
Because I bought this rifle from a person in Southern California and I live in Texas it had to be shipped to my dealer for paper work. I was out of the country when it arrived at my dealer. and it was a month before I got the rifle. That is what I meant by "TWO HOURS AFTER I BOUGHT IT" It was 2 hours after I received the rifle! I had only four rounds of S&B ammo and once the paper work was done I went 10 miles to ALPINE RANGE and fired FOUR rounds off hand on a 50 yd target. The rifle seemed to be regulated perfectly with the group I got.

When I finally got some ammo a couple of weeks later I went back to the range and sat down with a rest it became evident the first group was a fluke The next four or five groups were dismal compared to the group I posted about earlier in that original post. After that I was embarrassed but thought maybe it would shoot better with a scope mounted, That was even worse. I put the rifle in the vault and started looking for someone to regulate the rifle NO DICE till an couple of weeks ago, when I contacted Aaron Little.


Here is the whole post for those interested!

quote:

by me back in 2005 the night after I received the rifle;

I just bought a medium powered double rifle chambered for 9.3X74R! The caliber is not a problem, as I see it. In that respect it is quite suited to a lot of hunting world wide! What I think most will find fault with is, that it is a O/U double rifle, with a single trigger, and an inertia cocked top barrel! It also is factory fitted with QD scope rings& bases. <<<SNIP
With the iron sights, which I intend changing, it placed the first four shots of 286 gr soft points in a 2.5" group at 50 yds, from a standing position, off hand, not rested!>>>snip I mounted a very light 4X scope on it this morning, and will see how it shoots off the bench, later.

It is evident that I changed my mind, a couple of weeks later when I got some ammo and went back to the range. 5seventy is correct on one thing as he said I didn’t know anything about how the action of that rifle worked! He made me aware strongly, that I didn’t know crap, when I stated wrongly that the rifle had an inertia activated second barrel cocking. He was right!
The total rounds fired in this rifle by me is 24 rounds including the first four for that first group, and a box of twenty later, were fired in the first two weeks after I received the rifle.

Folks you may believe what ever you want here. But the above are the facts. In the final analysis, I have the rifle still and hopefully it will be shooting properly after Aaron gets through working his magic!
....................................................................................I'm done!