Would anybody have a clue what the market is for double rifles in the USA yearly? A friend said no more than 50, I say much more.
Butch

I recall in a conversation with Butch Searcy about six months ago that at that time he had about 45 DRs on order.

I think the market for DR is much bigger than just 50/year.

for 577nitro

i don't know how to send a private message
could you give me an email address i can contact you at pls. mine is cabletools@alltel.net

the kids are going to be on the computer so i may not get back to you till 10:30 or so eastern tim. thanks,tomo577

Take in account all the Merkles and Searcys.Then all the others FAMARS, Ferlach makers,and German makers, the the select few H&H's and Purdy's and WR made. My W.A.G. would be about 150 guns a year.

I speculate, and budget for a living I love making W.A.G's.

505ED

Our conversation revolved around doubles that are new to the USA, either built here or imported. We are not talking about rifles sold between ourselves. I think that your answers so far reflect this.
Butch

quote:

ply

No, I think there are about 150 new (I might be a bit heavy) but I know Searcy makes about 30or so a year and say merkle sends about the same. There are more Fine Guns sold than you think. I have a friend here in San Antonio that imported 2 a FAMARS and a J.Just last year. Just go to the Firearms show in Vegas. It will suprise you on what goes on.

505ED

No one has mentioned them,but I suspect Chapuis easily sells as many as the others, if for no other reason their excellent price on their 9.3x74. Also, don't forget the various European smallbore O/U doubles which creep in. Given all these different sources, I would certainly think the new market is much more than 150 rifles/yr.

tomo577:

I sent you an email.

I also think much more then 150 if you include everything that is a "double rifle" like the Tikka 9,3.

I would hate to guess, but 50 is far too low for new guns. Still, I know how many new DRs a particularly well known maker sold in the US in 2005 and it would shock you. Most would guess that they sold 10 times that many.

The real market here is much greater. If the new "affordable" guns were better designed, sales would go up fast. Unfortunately, new double rifles with decent geometry and acceptable build quality can't be had for less than $40,000. The number of used pre-war double rifles imported every year is greater, and most of these are bought by new users in preference to a new gun because they offer better utility and much better quality for the money.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

if butch makes about 50, and you are conservative and say
200 - pedersoli
100 - heym
100 - krieghoff
300 merkel
....

I would guess, on the sub 20k guns, between 1000 and 2000 per year, in doubles


and if remington ever gets them in, I'll have a 45/70 nitro

Jeffe:

Speaking of new rifles sold in the US, the figure for one of the makers you listed is high by a factor of 20.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Hello,
Some research with the ATF can provide you with the answer or very close and by mfg. as well. ATF has some very detailed data on sales of small arms, but how freely it is given out is another issue.

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
The real market here is much greater. If the new "affordable" guns were better designed, sales would go up fast. Unfortunately, new double rifles with decent geometry and acceptable build quality can't be had for less than $40,000....and most of these are bought by new users in preference to a new gun because they offer better utility and much better quality for the money.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I have got to find that photo of you shooting the Scoped Chapuis that can be bought for less than $4000 new. Frank can you help me out.

I have talked to a couple guys that are close to the double rifle importing and they said they would bet on a little over 300 new guns per year over the $10,000 price.
Butch

I looked at the ATF manufacturer and export numbers (www.atf.gov/firearms/stats) but there is no real info on doubles here. A manufactured gun is one that is either constructed here or placed in commerce, which would cover the imports. Note that building a rifle from an action does not constitute construction. Unfortunately, it is apparently not a requirement to file a report, since they state that for 2004, the last year listed, 26% of the manufacturers didn't. There are however some interesting numbers there.

Total rifles 1325138
Total shotguns 731769


Rogue River/Rigby
20 rifles
2 shotguns

Rifles

Lazzeroni 20
Cooper 2805
Kimber 9993
Dakota Arms 434
Jarrett 175
JJ Perodeau 1
Darcy Echols 4
Briley 23
Melvin Forbes (ULA) 97
Montana Rifle 1333
Savage 109984
USRA 109182
Ruger 248884
Marlin 228092
Remington 273742

Shotguns

Dakota Arms 67
Ruger 7405
Beretta USA 7553
Connecticutt Shotgun 119
H&R 116346
Mossburg 208313
Remington 319072

A couple of things come to mind when looking at these numbers, such as how companies like Rigby stay in business, if these numbers haven't come up significantly. Lazzaroni must be making a lot from ammo and accessories. I also can't believe the Beretta shotgun number. According to these numbers, the total of all their O/U shotguns and automatics just about equals the sales of the Ruger Red Label.

It's to bad that everyone isn't required to report, there would be a lot more useful info. I tried the website for the import division, but they just cover import requirements, not data.

On rigby

20 rifles X 28,500 min = 570,000

2 shotguns X 15,000 min = 30,000

Total $600,000 gross

22 merkle actions ??? I'm not saying it is proftiable, but I can see how he stays in business.

505ED

He makes a good gun accurate gun just not my cup of tea.

Given the choice, for my beans, I'd take that 1 JJ Perodeau or the 4 Darcy Echols rifles over the 109,182 Winingtons or 273,742 Remchesters, hands down.

My 2 cents.

Bob

Should have visited the Vintager's shoot in Millbrook New York...Lots of doubles for sale and saw lots of guys shooting theirs also...

Mike

Roscoe,
Breaking Balls I see!