Most of you have been reading my last post about the 450-400 comparison to the 470 because I am getting a 450-400 from Chris Sells and I'm looking at getting another caliber over (470 N.E.) or under the 450-400 (possibly 375 H&H flanged) and I was going to sell my 470. By the way, I am the owner of the Nitro Expresee Searcy Rifle. It is for sale, see pics in classified. I have nothing to gain posting the following information nor will my character allow me to defame Butch Searcy who stands by his product. It's paradoxical for me to continue with this post because I appreciate Butch's warranty on his rifles and as most of you know if something is wrong with your double rifle He will fix it and rightly quick at that. This post is going to focus on the quality control that I have experienced recently with Searcy Rifles and in my opinion lacks for a DB rifle that starts at 10,500.

For those of you who have been left out of the loop, the engraving on my left barrel which is suppose to read "470 Nitro Express" says "470 Nitro Expresee" because the rifle was blackened by expresso coffee, which is a new process if you haven't heard of it before. Ha! Ha! I received my 470 in December of 06. The first things I noticed were how well balanced the rifle was and just had an over all big rifle feel to it. This is my seventh double that I have owned so I've shot and held quite a few in the past nine years. When I looked the rifle over I noticed "Expresee" really couldn't figure that out-thought it might be some old English term at first (hello McFly?) then I started to look over the finish it was what I would consider alittle rough in places, wood, metal, and blueing (which I could see the sodder joints in places). Did notice that the rifle also did not have my sling swivel mounts on the barrel or the stock which I had ordered. Most likely my bad, Butch will tell you I changed the order ten times in a year which is all true, if not more. Called Butch, he said no problem that he also did not like the blueing and wanted me to send it back anyhow for re-blueing he would cover everything-what else can you ask for? I'm not that anal kinda a guy so I told him initually that I liked the rifle. I took it to the range and it was a very accurate rifle shooting Woodleighs, Swifts, TBS very well > 1.75inches. You gotta love that. As I looked again at the rifle I noticed on the left side of the stock that the stock was not square with the recoil pad and you could actually with your finger watch the pad give in the space, no biggie to me, I was going to add a little lead in the rear I would take care of it. Also noticed that the triggers were a little too spongy to me, that's not a quality issue it's a personal thing. I told him before I could send it back that I had a friend who was going to shoot a bison with it in late January so I kept the gun an extra three weeks till the deed was fulfilled. I immediately shipped the rifle back and Butch has had it till March 15th at which time he fixed the triggers like he said, he re-blued it like he said, and put one swivel mount on the barrels but none on the stock, GUN HAS TO GO BACK again. There is also a small chip out of the forend of the rifle which did not happen during shipping (covered wrappings and box with a comb) it probably happened at the shop. Stuff happens but this is starting to add up. Butch said he would get it done ASAP cover all shipping etc. So I asked him, what about the "Expresee" he laughed and said "really" I said really, I won't explain the reasoning but it makes sense to me I'll leave it at that. So at this point my love affair with this rifle was loosing it's luster and the engraving had crossed the threshold of my acceptance for a 12,000 dollar gun.

Butch said he would fix it, but after I ship it back this time he will have had my rifle more than I, to me not acceptable.

1. Who ever buys my rifle it's going to probably never give you any problems because they're all fixed. I will not tell you what he offered me, it's personal but it was not good enough.

2. Again, I am not trying to decry Searcy rifles as a whole I hope this note helps Butch to bring back some quality control in his shop.

3. If this was a 7,000 dollar rifle OK, but when paying 12,000 you expect a little more before it goes out the door. I know because I have three doubles that are under 7,000 dollars.

4. If you've got a Searcy on order, enjoy it for the components are strong, just take a good look at it before you shoot it. Butch will fix it if it needs anything. Just be prepared for a return.

Just a note, I know of one double rifle salesman that most of us know on AR, he just took back a rifle that the customer said would not shoot, (the guy was shooting it from a lead sled, ouch, no wonder it didn't shoot) the saleman took the rifle back, it shot fine, in fact very well. Told the customer that it shot fine, sent the targets and all. Customer said he still wanted his money back, he got his money back. Now that's customer service, excellence, and a class act wrapped up in one.

For what it is worth, I have had several dealings with Dirk and I take his word for what happened. Thanks for clearing up the confusion. This story for heading for mythological status!
Peter.

Actually I think "EXPRESSE" is cool. Sort of like those stamps with the upside-down airplanes on them that are worth a fortune to collectors.

And just think how easy it would be to identify it to get it back if it's ever stolen and recovered!

Now I'm thinking of getting the Pac-Nor barrel on my .338 engraved ".338 Wynchester "

Yep, "EXPRESSE" would be cool, but not "EXPRESEE" nor "ESPRESSO."

"470 Nitro Espresso" sounds like my kind of drink.

Dirk:

I hear you. I've observed the same issues, plus others. No doubt that Butch stands behind his guns - he's well known for that. However, you're right that the aggravation of such problems shouldn't be there in the first place at that price point.

You'll enjoy dealing with Double Gun Imports/Heym USA. Chris is first rate. In the unlikely event that you have a problem that isn't getting handled, just drop me a PM and I'll flail the living hell out of him for you. All kidding aside, few in the business are as motivated about delivering a quality product and keeping the customer satisfied. I think you'll be pleased with the Heym as well. I'm really looking forward to seeing the new .400s when they come in.
-----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

If the rifle is an "Expresee", does that make the owner an "Expressor"?

That marking was driving me up a wall, and I went so far as to look at Old English Dictionaries to see if that was some off spelling King Arthur used. Nothing.

Maybe its an early form of pig latin.

New_Guy is tops in service and he is like a damn bloodhound when it comes to knowing what is available or about to become available. And dollar wise, Heym is probably the best value out there in a new double.

I have a Larona 20ga 3" S/S shotgun that is stamped 12ga 2 3/4" on the barrels!

Dirk, I am sorry to hear about all of the trouble you have been through with this, and I hope you will still enjoy double rifles in the future.

And the whining continues! What is the break point for a good double-rifle whining session? $8K? $10K? $15K?

Not that I have any "feelings" about Searcy one wy or another, but any new gun may take some tweaking. The CZ crowd brings it up every day. A new Heym I once bought needed some trigger work. The Krieghoff I just bought needed re-doing to increase the opening angle.

And never once did I complain to my mother.

Will, We are talking about fit and finish on a 12,000 dollar priced double rifle and misspelled engraved words on the barrels, not trigger work. The whining continues

Will, I don't know who you are referring to with your "whining" comment, but if it is Dirk, you are way off base in my opinion. This gun has already been sold or traded by the original owner. If he was whining wouldn't he have "gone public" when he took delivery? The lack of quality control is amazing, whether it is a $600 gun or a $12K gun. How do you suggest that he "tweak" the engraving? Sorry, but I think your comment is totally inappropriate. Dirk has acted in a class manner and I will refraim from making comparisons.
Peter.

Will

Wanna buy a Searcy Expresso? I suppose it is the ideal weapon for bagging Cape Buff at Starbucks. I'm holding out for the lattee lapua.

By the way, Will still has copies of his book, "Hurting Africa's Dangerous Gnome", available. Did I spell that right?

A good motto to live by in all aspects of life will always be (whether we sell cars, guns, or services): "Do it right the FIRST time".

Mostly what Dirk writes is true. But what has been left out is that prior to sending the rifle to Chris Sells he wasn't aware of the engraving problem, Chris is the one that complied the cosmetic complaints. And as anyone that knows Chris knows how he feels about my rifles.
As to the comment that Chris had returned a customers money because it didn't shoot right. Well it was crossing 8" at 50yds. And the reason I knew about it was that I was contacted in hopes that I could give any kind of pointer to help them make the rifle shoot. My comment was that if it cross's 8" at 50yds. with Federal factory ammo then it needs to be sent back to the factory to be reregulated. Oh by the way Chris told the customer that it shot fine for him. Go figure. The reason Chris had to return the money was because he wasn't qualified to fix it, only sell it.
As Dirk admits he changed his order 6 times during the time of ordering and delivery. Fickled comes to mind.
Dirk sent the rifle to Chris to sell on consignment or as a trade in, I don't know which. Of course Chris might have volunteered to help Dirk with an attempt to get a refund.
The bottom line is that I stand by my rifles 100%.
I guess what really set me off was that I had received an email from Dirk wanting a refund. And if I would give him back his money he wouldn't bad mouth me and that we could remain friends. My reply was that we weren't friends.
This is going to piss off a bunch of you out there, but don't think for a second that I care.

Butch

I don't think anyone doubts that your back up service is second to none in the firearms trade.

Good to see you post on this.

I normally do not jump into a topic such as this but since Butch posted what he did I will add by comments about what I expect.
I was on the verge of ordering a Searcy for about a year to a year and a half. I had a chance in the last year to handle two Searcys that were recently built according to the owners. I also seen several on Gunsamerica that I really liked and had the owners send me detailed photos. But in all five cases the engraving on the rifles were terrible, screws were misaligned and I didnt think the wood to metal fit was any better than an off the shelf factory bolt action rifle.
For most of us here, myself included, spending 10k or more for a rifle is a once in a lifetime thing. Even though I do not consider myself to be poor it would certainly be a stretch to purchase one.
In the final analysis I passed on submitting an order based upon what I seen in person or via photos. Maybe 10K is only supposed to get a person a rifle that then has to go back and forth to get the bugs worked out. Who knows, maybe I am expecting to much.
Just my .02's worth.
I ordered the Chapuis instead.

Butch I have known about the engraving since I bought the rifle you can ask Michael Merker gunmaker in Hendersonville N.C. Chris asked me about it, I told him I knew about it. And Butch, I in no way tried to manipulate you with wanting a refund, that's not true. I told your girl I was thinking of asking you for a PARTIAL refund or if you would consider taking the rifle back. You said that's a no go because I've had the rifle too long, well I beg to differ, you've had my rifle more than I have minus the 5 weeks I kept the rifle before the bison hunt. You could show them my email to you if you want the real truth. But here is the truth.
Butch came back and offered me an upgrade to the classic, OF COURSE I had to pay the difference 3000K more, are you kidding? I told him I would think about it and get back with him.
I wrote Butch an email going over the rifle history and ended the email with two options that I would appreciate he consider.
Option 1, I would consider the upgrade but I did not want to pay anymore money for the upgrade.
Option 2, If he did not want to do option one, I told him he should at least help me sell the rifle. How hard is that to post it on his web page?

I did not say to Butch I would remain his friend if he did one of these things, I don't manipulate people around like that, it's not professional. Butch if you took it that way I'll be the first one to say I'm sorry you interpreted it that way. I stated that I wanted to remain friends no matter what you chose to do about the situation.

Butch show them the email saying I demanded a refund? Or if you gave me back my money I would not bad mouth you, It's not there. Now that's the truth.

Butch are all disatisfied customers not your friend? "Faithful are the wounds of a friend," I'm not trying to bring your company down, only you can do that. You need to get your quality control underhand and you need to make some choices pertaining to that issue for you yourself have the power to bring it down or make it prosper.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
I had a chance in the last year to handle two Searcys that were recently built according to the owners. I also seen several on Gunsamerica that I really liked and had the owners send me detailed photos. But in all five cases the engraving on the rifles were terrible, screws were misaligned and I didnt think the wood to metal fit was any better than an off the shelf factory bolt action rifle.

Pretty closely matches my observations as well.
-----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Butch, I sell both new and used guns. In addition to the gun in question, I've also got 4 used Merkels for sale.

I've done nothing to "call you out," nor do I see any need in perpetuating a discussion like this. I will, however, set the record straight on your comments directed at me.

quote:

Originally posted by Butch Searcy:
Mostly what Dirk writes is true. But what has been left out is that prior to sending the rifle to Chris Sells he wasn't aware of the engraving problem, Chris is the one that complied the cosmetic complaints.

Not true.
As Dirk has posted above, Michael Merker pointed it out to him... Dirk pointed it out to me before the gun arrived.

But I don't guess I should hold my breath waiting on an apology from you for wrongfully accusing me of something that I didn't do?

quote:

And as anyone that knows Chris knows how he feels about my rifles.
As to the comment that Chris had returned a customers money because it didn't shoot right. Well it was crossing 8" at 50yds. And the reason I knew about it was that I was contacted in hopes that I could give any kind of pointer to help them make the rifle shoot.
My comment was that if it cross's 8" at 50yds. with Federal factory ammo then it needs to be sent back to the factory to be reregulated. Oh by the way Chris told the customer that it shot fine for him. Go figure.

Before telling them to reregulate the gun, you might have asked them how it was being fired. You probably wouldn't have been surprised to hear that it was crossing after
they told you they were firing it from a sled with 50-pounds of weight in it... I wasn't.

I was surprised, however, that they didn't break more than they did in the process.
Fortunately, only the base of the recoil pad was broken, and that's being repaired.

I did shoot the gun before it was delivered, and after it's repaired, I'll shoot it again. If anyone really cares to see the groups, let me know.

For the readers’ information, it wasn't the owner of the rifle who was shooting the gun from a sled with 50-pounds of weight. The owner, who has owned several double rifles, was equally as surprised as I was that to find out that his gun was being fired this way. There was no refund for this gun... just some lessons learned (and a repair bill) for a third party.



The gun for which I refunded the owner's money was completely separate.

The owner took it to the range (his first double rifle), shot it from the bench and said it wouldn’t group. He also put it in sled and “confirmed†that it still wouldn’t shoot.

He sent it back, and I took it to the range. The factory build sheet indicated that it grouped 3cm from center to center, and it shot equally as well for me.



Right or wrong, he couldn’t shoot it, wasn’t happy with it, and I bought the gun back from him.

quote:

The reason Chris had to return the money was because he wasn't qualified to fix it, only sell it.

First, aside from the damage incurred from shooting the gun from a sled with 50-pounds of weight in it, nothing was wrong with the gun.

I am no gunsmith, nor can I fix them. Fortunately, however, with British & Belgium trained gunsmiths like Kirk and JJ within a couple hundred miles, I don't need to know how to fix one in order to ensure that any needed repairs are done correctly.

quote:

As Dirk admits he changed his order 6 times during the time of ordering and delivery. Fickled comes to mind.
Dirk sent the rifle to Chris to sell on consignment or as a trade in, I don't know which.

quote:

Of course Chris might have volunteered to help Dirk with an attempt to get a refund.

That’s not only untrue and speculative, but also bordering on slanderous.

quote:

The bottom line is that I stand by my rifles 100%.
I guess what really set me off was that I had received an email from Dirk wanting a refund. And if I would give him back his money he wouldn't bad mouth me and that we could remain friends. My reply was that we weren't friends.
This is going to piss off a bunch of you out there, but don't think for a second that I care.

Again, this is between you and Dirk – not you and I.

Please post your future comments with that fact in mind.

Sorry, I just don't understand what Dirk's not knowing about the engraving problem has to do with it. Unless he altered it, it has been there since day 1. What is there to argue about? It is there, it left the factory that way, and the "stand behind my rifles 100%" solution is to ask the customer to spend an extra $3K to get it fixed? This is undoubtably an expensive mistake, but it is not the customer's mistake is it?
Peter.

Peter, You misunderstood the option I stated, I don't have to pay anything to get it fixed, but if I wanted to trade mine in on an upgrade to the classic model (new rifle), I was going to have to pay the difference.

Dirk, you are correct. I did misunderstand. My apologies to Butch.
Peter.

These types of discussions sure opens ones perspective and gives insight into the "inner soul" of some members.

So basically what we have here is a rock solid rifle that shoots great. With some cosmetic issues. Am I correct?

Butch you should whoop that engravers ass then shove his crack pipe where the sun don't shine.

But, besides some minor cosmetic stuff that would be pretty simple to fix. I am not really getting the big picture on this "sky is falling attitude'.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Below is a post I made on the classified by mistake, thinking I was here!

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:


This Searcy 470 Nitro is practically "as new." It does have one slight blemish on the stock near the recoil pad and a small chip out of the forend at the barrel flats. Aside from those two minor bumps, it is in excellent condition overall.24" barrels, automatic ejectors, articulated front trigger ($1,000 option), long trigger guard ($500 option), left-hand triggers (front trigger fires left barrel, etc...) and right hand opening top lever. Single standing rear leaf (with white line) and red fiber optic front bead. It also has a removable lead weight in the buttstock. Weight with the lead is 11lbs 3oz, 10lbs 4oz without. $11,000.00

quote:

Gentlemen, I know everyone loves to knock anything that is posted, or offered for sale here, but in this case the only thing that absloutely needs repareing is the missspelledword "EXPRESS", and that is a very easy thing to do. Since this rifle is made on a mono-block, the double "E" can be very carefully tig welded, polished, and re-cut an "S" by the engraver. This should be done with a small welding rod, made from the same material the mono-block is made from, so there is no color differencial. The tiny bit of TIG "cool" welding it would take to fill the two letters wouldn't even hurt if it were done on the barrel it's self, and certainly do not harm the rifle, on the mono-block! The way I see it is, this is a nice buy for someone who needs a good left hand 470 Nitro Express, or even an Expresee, who isn't so picky, and/or is willing the have the engraveing fixed! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, and (DUGABOY1)

This post was modified after it was posted on another thread!

Dirklawyer

I'm sorry to read that your rifle had issues. For what it is worth, the Seary PH that I recieved last August is, in my opinion, a well built double rifle. The engraving is as advertised. The other metal work is very good - yes the screws are indexed properly and the triggers break cleanly. The stock-work is outstanding. Hell, it was stocked by one of AR's members that is known for doing excellent work. It fits me perfectly. The rifle handles well. It is wonderfully accurate - both with irons and with a scope. Am I happy with the rifle? Yes would be an understatement.

Mike Chamberlain

Seriously guys? I mean if I spent the $$$ on a double that Dirk did and it had mispelled words on it when I got it and had all the problems it had to be sent back for and then the highly acclaimed builders response to fixing the engraved misspelled words was, "Really?" I would be pissed. Can any of you honestly say you wouldn't be? I mean come on, we are talking about $12,000 here.

Brian

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!! Run for your lives!!!

Butch offered to fix the damn thing he offered to pay UPS both ways . 15 minutes with a peen and a bit of polishing. Then you send the rifle back to the dyslexic (no joke) engraver and wa la we have a new rifle.

I've known Butch for a while I've bought three of his rifles. Here is the deal. He builds solid no shit working rifles that tend to better than average in accuracy and dependability.

He stands by his work and has a no BS customer service policy. He will bend over backwards to help you out with one of his rifles. He is a good hearted hard working man but I would suspect that he doesn't deal with mambi bambi petty bullshit very well.

Anyone who says that he was treated poorly by Butch Searcy either has an agenda or simply doesn't play well with others.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!! Run for your lives!!!

I think that's an overreaction.

quote:

He stands by his work and has a no BS customer service policy. He will bend over backwards to help you out with one of his rifles. He is a good hearted hard working man but I would suspect that he doesn't deal with mambi bambi petty bullshit very well.

Anyone who says that he was treated poorly by Butch Searcy either has an agenda or simply doesn't play well with others.

I don't think the above string, including his own post, reflects this. An honest complaint about quality control issues with a $12,000 rifle isn't "mambi bambi petty bullshit".

My read of what Dirk has had to say is that Searcy has a problem with quality control that is unacceptable to him at this price point. That isn't news, as I hear such regularly. Those new ones I've handled in the last few years have all had issues that I'd have returned the guns for correction of, had they been mine. So...Butch will fix 'em. Fine, but those issues shouldn't have been present in the first place. If you find such aggravation acceptable for the price, fine, but I think you'll find quite a few who disagree with you.

While design of each successive model has improved dramatically over the years, quality control has not, and that needs to be fixed. To me, the bottom line here is that when someone like Dirk makes an honest observation of such on this site, he gets shouted down by the shills...and Butch, and that isn't right.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I dont know what some of you guys come to expect in terms of quality but for $12,000 a rifle (any brand for that matter) should never have to be returned for cosmetic flaws.
What the hell happened to making sure it was made correctly the first time?
How many rifles leave his shop every day? How long would it take the owner to inspect each one?
Making light hearted excuses that something this expensive needs to be returned like it is a commmon thing would never be acceptable to me.
I just don't buy it. For $12,000 they should look perfect.

Well gentlemen, I hope this gets settled, to the sattisfaction of both parties, because I like both Butch, and Dirk. The two main things wrong are both cosmetic in nature, and are understandably not desireable on a double rifle of any price. This shouldn't have ever left the shop before the two things were remidied. It did, however, and now all that can be done is to fix the mistakes! New screws can be made, and indexed properly, and the engraveing be fixed, as well, described in my moved post, from another thread, above.

IMO, the rifle should have been sent back for repair on return shipping, without sending the rifle on a hunting trip.

I hate to see these things happen, by and to good people, and it is my hope this can be settled to the sattisfaction of all concerened!

quote:

I don't think the above string, including his own post, reflects this. An honest complaint about quality control issues with a $12,000 rifle isn't "mambi bambi petty bullshit".

I have to agree with you that with the items mentioned here are definitely a quality control problem.

I am not making excuses for Butch. What is a bunch of petty BS is the on going crap. Butch will fix any and all of these issues no questions asked. End of story. End of discussion.

Shit happened and it will be repaired given the chance.

That's my take on it in any case.

Since Butch has offered to fix the rifle, it seems best to take him up on that offer.

I agree with 500grains.

But to be safe, I would enclose a dictionary along with the rifle when you send it back.

Okay, so I decided to make a joke. I only hope that Dirk hasn't lost his sense of humor, given all he's been through with this rifle.

Butch is receiving the rifle next week and fixing the rifle ASAP and standing behind his impeccable warranty to fix what needs to be fixed. I really haven't lost my sense of humor in the midst of some jabs and hooks all good fun. Actually if I was going to keep the rifle I would not have the Expresee fixed, in a way it's one of a kind. I've even thought about my forum name being 470 Expresee

Dirklawyer,

Dump the Searcy!!!! Get a Heym or Demas. Their engravers know how to spell.

I have a friend who had a 470NE Searcy and had nothing but problems.

I hope this gets resolved and all parties involved will be happy. I also wish I could afford one of Butch's fine rifles.

quote:

My reply was that we weren't friends.
This is going to piss off a bunch of you out there, but don't think for a second that I care.

So much for taking the high road...... Not how I would conduct business.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Sounds like a response from someone who does care.It must be hard to deliver an excellent product and stay in business.

It soulds like someone who is over extended and loosing control of the product.

Butch may need some first class help in his expansion.