Dan:

What Paul and I were referring to is the condition I've noticed in a number of Searcy rifles - a "hitch" encountered when the barrels are rotated onto the face from the open position. This occurs even when the ejectors are already cocked, so it has nothing to cocking the ejectors with the rise of the barrels. This spot is so hard that the top lever must be manually pushed to the right in order to close the gun, or it must be slammed shut.

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
I asked Butch that question and he said the top lever moving back to center after opening the gun was the way he designed it. I can't recall the specific reason, but it had to do with when the gun is open doing this (the lever going back to center) removes tension on something on the inside. If I recall correctly, this was at the suggestion of PHs who like to carry their guns opened while hunting.

Take it for what it is worth, but that is the way they are built. You may not agree with this theory, but that is the way the man builds his guns.

In this context, it isn't a problem; it is just something you do not agree with.

Paul:

I'm not at all sure that I DO disagree with the design, but I do think that the design is probably neither here nor there. If the design is properly executed, there should be no hard spots encountered during closing, and even the extra effort required to cock the ejectors shouldn't be a definite "hitch". My hunch is that the problem is poor execution, not design. However, if proper execution of the design can't eliminate the hard spot, then regardless of the intent behind it, that fact would make it a bad design by definition.

Some double gun designs are harder to close than others, but that's a very different thing from what we're taking about. Ejector guns are harder to close than non-ejectors, and self-openers can be a bitch to close, BUT, no quality double gun based on any of those designs will have any "hard" spots in the opening/closing cycle, and that isn't opinion.
-----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
Dan:

What Paul and I were referring to is the condition I've noticed in a number of Searcy rifles - a "hitch" encountered when the barrels are rotated onto the face from the open position. This occurs even when the ejectors are already cocked, so it has nothing to cocking the ejectors with the rise of the barrels. This spot is so hard that the top lever must be manually pushed to the right in order to close the gun, or it must be slammed shut.

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
I asked Butch that question and he said the top lever moving back to center after opening the gun was the way he designed it. I can't recall the specific reason, but it had to do with when the gun is open doing this (the lever going back to center) removes tension on something on the inside. If I recall correctly, this was at the suggestion of PHs who like to carry their guns opened while hunting.

Take it for what it is worth, but that is the way they are built. You may not agree with this theory, but that is the way the man builds his guns.

In this context, it isn't a problem; it is just something you do not agree with.

Paul:

I'm not at all sure that I DO disagree with the design, but I do think that the design is probably neither here nor there. If the design is properly executed, there should be no hard spots encountered during closing, and even the extra effort required to cock the ejectors shouldn't be a definite "hitch". My hunch is that the problem is poor execution, not design. However, if proper execution of the design can't eliminate the hard spot, then regardless of the intent behind it, that fact would make it a bad design by definition.

Some double gun designs are harder to close than others, but that's a very different thing from what we're taking about. Ejector guns are harder to close than non-ejectors, and self-openers can be a bitch to close, BUT, no quality double gun based on any of those designs will have any "hard" spots in the opening/closing cycle, and that isn't opinion.
-----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Mark:

Gotcha. However, I know about as much about the designs of double rifles as I do about women - which ain't much.

I'm just passing on the info as I received it and am in no position to argue to merits (or lack thereof) of why certain mechanical items function the way they do; I'm just putting the info out there for people to take what they want from it.

Now, I was in a car accident yesterday (lady slammed into me when I was stopped at a red light with my son in the back seat). So it is cocktail time! We are fine, but I did whack my neck pretty good on the head restraint (which was too low for me). My neck is all tight and stiff now. But lesson learned - go out and make sure your hear restraint is adjusted properly for yourself - cause you never know and hell-on-four-wheels-little-old-ladies are gonna go flying into you.

Painful part? She hit the BMW....

Paul, Glad you and your son are OK.

Regarding doubles being hard to close, I have handled a few Purdy self opening double rifles.

I did not like them, they are not for me.

Paul -- Sorry about the Beemer but glad you and your son are doing OK.

Were you near a farmers market?

That DOES hurt! I got rearended about 12 years ago and got hit so hard I had a concussion and almost no memory of the night it happened. Couldn't even remember the car that hit me bursting into flames. Not a mark on the guy driving it.

Doctor Daniels should work wonders...

Paul Jr., PM sent re. "crash".

quote:

There was a "negative conclusion" when this $12,000 piece made it out the door with the faults that it had. That's the fundamental fact that shills like you and Surestrike have CHOSEN to ignore.

Mark,

I think you should try a calm down a bit. There is no reason to go and start getting personal and begin name calling.

We all get it, you don't like Searcy rifles. You don't like Butch either. That's your deal.

Besides if I'm going to be a shill it's only fair that Dan has to be a shill too. After all he also had the bad form to say good things about his Searcy in your presence.

What rifles do you recommend in this price range?

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

There was a "negative conclusion" when this $12,000 piece made it out the door with the faults that it had. That's the fundamental fact that shills like you and Surestrike have CHOSEN to ignore.

Mark,

What rifles do you recommend in this price range?

Here is a good one!

It is a little known fact that mark is really a Blaser double guy. He told me at the last DRSS shoot that he has a room full of them...quick detach scopes and all. He is just waiting on the right time to come out of the closet.

Yep she's classy all right.

The screwheads don't line up.

Inletting is rough too!

This thread started out as one person's experience with quality control issues. Dirk never said Searcy was a crap rifle, and he had little if nothing to gain by starting the thread in the first place since he was in the process of trying to sell that very same rifle at the time.

quote:

The screwheads don't line up.

quote:

Inletting is rough too!

Those are quality control issues. But to be fair to all, taking a comment out of context does little to help anyone's cause.

In this particular case, here are the issues with that particular rifle.

1.

quote:

the engraving on my left barrel which is suppose to read "470 Nitro Express" says "470 Nitro Expresee"

2.

quote:

the finish it was what I would consider alittle rough in places, wood, metal, and blueing (which I could see the sodder joints in places).

quote:

Called Butch, he said no problem that he also did not like the blueing and wanted me to send it back anyhow for re-blueing he would cover everything

3.

quote:

rifle also did not have my sling swivel mounts on the barrel or the stock which I had ordered

4.

quote:

left side of the stock that the stock was not square with the recoil pad and you could actually with your finger watch the pad give in the space

After the rifle was sent back for work and returned 6 weeks later:

1.

quote:

the engraving on my left barrel which is suppose to read "470 Nitro Express" says "470 Nitro Expresee"

2.

quote:

put one swivel mount on the barrels but none on the stock

3.

quote:

small chip out of the forend of the rifle

I would not be happy with any of the issues discussed in this thread, including misaligned screw heads or inletting problems. None of the issues discussed here would be present in other rifles in the same price range, like:
http://www.heymusa.com/inventory/nw_merkel_470/nw_merkel_470.htm; or
http://www.heymusa.com/inventory/nw_merkel_500/nw_merkel_500.htm; or
http://www.heymusa.com/inventory/merkel_470/merkel_470_1.htm; or
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CFPage...id=439&mode=viewGun; or
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CFPage...d=1346&mode=viewGun; or
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CFPage...d=1801&mode=viewGun;
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CFPage...id=432&mode=viewGun; or
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun...p?hierarchyId=11893; or
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun...p?hierarchyId=11893; or
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun...p?hierarchyId=11899; or
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun...p?hierarchyId=11899; or
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun...p?hierarchyId=11899; or
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun...p?hierarchyId=11899; or
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun...p?hierarchyId=10473; or
http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx?tabid=30&mid=3...&StyleID=3&GunID=22; or
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2711043/m/928101446.

And that is just a partial list of newer doubles for sale at the present time. None of which will have the issues discussed in this thread.

I think the issues here were correctly identified up front as quality control issues. And they are. It has to cost a bundle of money to have things gone over a second time. Not to mention the risk of damaging a rifle during shipping. It has happened to me and I'm sure it is not a rare occurrence.

There are those who would live with the flaws or would not mind if it took one or more extended trips to the shop to get things right. That is well and good.

But there are also a lot of people who are or would be bothered by it. It should be right the first time.

Jim,

No doubt you are correct. However a bit of levity isn't going to kill anyone either. After all we are talking about a rifle with some cosmetic problems here, not lung cancer.

All of your statements are true and factual. I don't think anybody is disagreeing that this rifle has issues. Or that these rifles should be right the first time out.

It is like my good friend Ashley Emerson would say. "It's like finally getting a date with a super model only to find out she's got a dick broke off in her."

But to go from there to some of the total conjecture about Butch being "greedy" or "so rich" he doesn't care or that all Searcy rifles are basket cases is simply wrong. And I and many other satisfied customers know better.

I also believe that there must be some previous history between Chris and Butch which is what set Butch off in his post.

I am truly sorry that this happened to Dirk. There is no excuse for it. All that can be done know is for Butch to make it right. He has offered to do that.

That is the here and now.

Surestrike (aka "Lefty")

I agree 100% with you that any conjecture about Butch being "greedy" or a "let-them-eat-cake" rich guy is out of line.

His rifles have constantly improved since he started. Just take a look at the rifle you just received!

He has added a Dakota facility to further improvement and innovation. And no doubt he has thought about, more than once, the cost to him with a rifle that does not go out the door right the first time.

And Ashley Emerson sounds like a very wise person!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:

He has added a Dakota facility to further improvement and innovation.
And Ashley Emerson sounds like a very wise person!

Jim you lost me on this one?

Roscoe-

I was commenting on the wisdom of Surestrike's friend:

quote:

It is like my good friend Ashley Emerson would say. "It's like finally getting a date with a super model only to find out she's got a dick broke off in her."

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
I also believe that there must be some previous history between Chris and Butch which is what set Butch off in his post.

Greg - There is no history between Butch and me.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
All of your statements are true and factual. I don't think anybody is disagreeing that this rifle has issues. Or that these rifles should be right the first time out.

Eureka! Ol' Surestrike finally struck! After 3 pages, I didn't think he would ever figure it out.

quote:

....or that all Searcy rifles are basket cases is simply wrong. And I and many other satisfied customers know better.

Nah, you just don't know any different yet.
---------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Paul:

That sucks. Glad you and the boy are OK. Get your neck thoroughly checked out though. That kind of thing has a way of causing you trouble later.

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
Painful part? She hit the BMW....

Yeah, I know what you mean. Sometimes its hard to realize that its just a car. Just remember, someday it will be just another clunker that nobody wants.

I had a Mercedes 500 once. I really loved that car. I sat atop the concrete center median barrier on the freeway one morning, during rush hour traffic, and watched it burn to the ground.

It can just about always be worse.
----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
Paul:

That sucks. Glad you and the boy are OK. Get your neck thoroughly checked out though. That kind of thing has a way of causing you trouble later.

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
Painful part? She hit the BMW....

Yeah, I know what you mean. Sometimes its hard to realize that its just a car. Just remember, someday it will be just another clunker that nobody wants.

I had a Mercedes 500 once. I really loved that car. I sat atop the concrete center median barrier on the freeway one morning, during rush hour traffic, and watched it burn to the ground.

It can just about always be worse.
----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Sorry for the hijack, but thank you, one and all, for the kind words. My son, MOST IMPORTANTLY, is fine and I think my cool 2 1/2 year old enjoyed the experience. Now he keeps asking for a "big bump." I keep telling my wife that the one phrase she is going to DREAD hearing, and I know he will say it because he is such a little dare devil, is "hey Mom! Watch this!"

Yep, guaranteed heart attack for momma! I guess that's why there are daddy's in the world for their little men...

Mark:

Thanks for the suggestion. I do have a Dr's appointment to just make sure all is well. I played high school football and got my bell rung many of times. Also, I was a camp conselor in high school and I thought it would be cool to run up to a dead tree in the woods and push it over. Well, I did it, but the tree was so dead and I pushed it so hard that I pushed the bottom part of the tree away from me, but it spit in half and the top part fell backwards and hit me square on top of the head, breaking in half.

That sum bitch knocked me out cold.

My best friend, Aaron, was with me (who is now an agent with the US Secret Service) said after finding out I was ok, never laughed so hard in his life. To this day he continues to break my balls.

That's me; bringing humor to others at the expense of myself.

Anyway, the Beemer is ok, it's just going to need some TLC for about four weeks at the autombody shop. And as an FYI, she rocked us so hard that the inside moon roof covering (the interior fabric that moves with the automated moon roof), broke off of its track and also needs repaired.

I should be able to shoot straight by June - so you Texas trees, WATCH OUT!

Paul,
glad to hear that you and your sone are OK. That's all that matters!

quote:

Also, I was a camp conselor in high school and I thought it would be cool to run up to a dead tree in the woods and push it over. Well, I did it, but the tree was so dead and I pushed it so hard that I pushed the bottom part of the tree away from me, but it spit in half and the top part fell backwards and hit me square on top of the head, breaking in half.

Good Lord! Was there a coyote and roadrunner involved in this?

Not many people can say they split a tree in half with their heads. That incident also explains a lot, particularly your bloodlust for the decimation of anything arbor-like with the 577.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:

quote:

Also, I was a camp conselor in high school and I thought it would be cool to run up to a dead tree in the woods and push it over. Well, I did it, but the tree was so dead and I pushed it so hard that I pushed the bottom part of the tree away from me, but it spit in half and the top part fell backwards and hit me square on top of the head, breaking in half.

Good Lord! Was there a coyote and roadrunner involved in this?

Very good Jim, VERY GOOD!