quote:

Sure makes Searcy, Owen, Bradshaw doubles suddenly look even more attractive huh!

I was just thinking used, as in, "Hey, that one looks/fits pretty good." [cash handed to owner who now becomes previous owner], "Thanks."

With a rifle I have not yet got scamed, the only what I have seen during the years is a big delay etc.

Companies advertising/selling and not have even once build a srew of the rifle. Expamles

Advance paid to Monanarifleman deliverey, I got 6years later and not even what I ordered but I wanted to close up the deal. Loss zero but time lost. (the rifle works)

US Optics the same delivery over 1year too late and the scope was then replaced last year because they could and not want repair it any more, so I got a new for repalcement. (All ok but confortable is something different)

And others (there was other they got me the advance back, delivered not as ordered etc. I can tell you at least 5 more stories)

I have not lost any money but at USO I was uncountable times (every time I was in LA), in Kalispell I was 3times etc. I have usually taken the holiday to show up there so I made the scadule to America so that the companies was on my way.

Now to the double rifle. Caused by the big problems I had. I was going first to the manufacturer and looked what is there. (I know about what for equipment is needed to build a rifle). So I made the purchase contract in the production facility. The rifle was alreday build in the white, so only the stock had to be made. After that I pay the advance to finish the rifle and after 6month it was delivered.

Before you pay advance to anyone you have to go to their factory and look in there. Some one who only scmas has no factory nor anything. To fly over cost money but it is by far cheaper then all the problems caused afterward.

Bunoushcu


Welcome aboard. Though English might not be your first language (or perhaps just typing impaired like me )you are absolutely correct: paying for a plane ticket is much cheaper than paying for a solicitor (LAW-yer, to my fellow Yanks!)

Earlier this summer I visited several gunmakers in Eibar, Spain for the exact same reason. Side bonus was getting to handle 75K pound sterling shotguns being custom made fo the Duke of ******* before he even got to see them!

So what has become of this?

Have the DK authorities made results, or have they told y'all to pound sand, or what..?



Anything?

That is the entry of the company see:

http://www.cvr.dk/Site/Forms/P....aspx?cvrnr=26230640

Look like they closed that up on Jan 7th, 2011

Usually before closing there is announcement that you can fill all claims you have when you not give notice that you have a claim it is gone.

As you can see there was even more companies at the address before. All only for a very short time every time, looks all like a prof scamer.

quote:

Originally posted by bunoushcu:
That is the entry of the company see:

http://www.cvr.dk/Site/Forms/P....aspx?cvrnr=26230640

Look like they closed that up on Jan 7th, 2011

Usually before closing there is announcement that you can fill all claims you have when you not give notice that you have a claim it is gone.

As you can see there was even more companies at the address before. All only for a very short time every time, looks all like a prof scamer.

Last in the list of companies on that address:

quote:

View Details 26230640 Yew Dale Gun and Rifle Compagny v / Peter Als Nerving (DISSOLVED)

In retrospection,if only someone checked the antecedents of the company!


Best-
Locksley,R.

Not surprising.

Did anyone have any luck with the police?

Well, this sounds really comforting...

quote:

Originally posted by bunoushcu:
That is the entry of the company see:

http://www.cvr.dk/Site/Forms/P....aspx?cvrnr=26230640

Look like they closed that up on Jan 7th, 2011

Usually before closing there is announcement that you can fill all claims you have when you not give notice that you have a claim it is gone.

As you can see there was even more companies at the address before. All only for a very short time every time, looks all like a prof scamer.

I hope you guys get better results than this suggests.



Cheers
Tinker

Guys, the fact is I've never expected or even hoped to get anything back in the first place.

Even as it pertains to the Danish Police, what a waste of time as far as I am concerned. I was given nothing but the total run-around, pawned off to 3 different officers who are supposedly "handling" the case, and the last guy has never returned my messages? I thought perhaps that local L.E. might take it seriously as a criminal offense, but it sure doesn't appear so. Maybe others have had better luck, but my results with the danish police has been ZERO!!

So I bought another double rifle, and moved on.

For all you guys that lost money, remember this when you prepare your taxes. At least that should be some relief.

I have watched this thread with interest...Peter phoned me several times about making ammo for his 'new line' of double rifles that were going to be in all the bass Pro shops as a counter to Cabela's deal with Sabatti.

The talk was large, as was the request for some sample cases. Appart from the fact that we don't work like that, it all sounded like a little too much of a good thing- and so it has proved. Just glad I didn't utter any support or even a sugestion that Norma could deliver the ammo.

Be interesting to watch...the last project was on using rifled 20g shotgun barrels to build a double and wanting to use brass cases and an increased charge to produce essentially a 'super' paradox gun. That being something that will get folk killed in Africa I wanted none of it. But it does make for a really cheap to produce double 'rifle' that offers impressive performance on paper. I suspect we will hear of some new company peddling this concept again in a couple of years.

at AN

First problem is that the counter part understand exactrly what you want and sencond is to give them some papers (proof) which can be used at court.

A payment only is not enough, they need a contract or invoice where in stands what the deal was about.

When you let build up anything, there is usally a time frame indicated delivery time etc. After that is expired you have to send the company a registered letter that delivery not happened and you have to give a new delivery (possible) date. After that date you can take civil action on the suspect.

As I see that the police not make anything because the papers sent was not sufficent to make anything. They can only make something when there is a proof for a scam and not only a late delivery or a nondelivery of a disolved company.

For them it look only like someone not notice his/her claim against the disolved company. That is a civil case they not investiget. Phone calls to the comapny does not help at all you need somthing in written form to get been noticed.

When he made the books correctly, he put all advnces into the books and paid him a salary, paid social security on that amounts. Lifed from it and at a certain time the money was used up and he closed the business. In such a case it will be really hard to proof the scam.

quote:

Originally posted by bunoushcu:
As I see that the police not make anything because the papers sent was not sufficent to make anything.

Absolutely Incorrect.

quote:

Originally posted by bunoushcu:
That is the entry of the company see:

http://www.cvr.dk/Site/Forms/P....aspx?cvrnr=26230640

Look like they closed that up on Jan 7th, 2011

Usually before closing there is announcement that you can fill all claims you have when you not give notice that you have a claim it is gone.

As you can see there was even more companies at the address before. All only for a very short time every time, looks all like a prof scamer.

Doing this sort of thing in Australia is called "Phoenix Companies" and is banned and illegal, ie if a person sets up companies for a period, and then liquidates them, allegedly leaving debts behind or unpaid, again and again.

I would have thought a sophisticated country such as Denmark would have similar provisions against such activity.

quote:

Originally posted by bunoushcu:
at AN

First problem is that the counter part understand exactrly what you want and sencond is to give them some papers (proof) which can be used at court.

A payment only is not enough, they need a contract or invoice where in stands what the deal was about.

When you let build up anything, there is usally a time frame indicated delivery time etc. After that is expired you have to send the company a registered letter that delivery not happened and you have to give a new delivery (possible) date. After that date you can take civil action on the suspect.

As I see that the police not make anything because the papers sent was not sufficent to make anything. They can only make something when there is a proof for a scam and not only a late delivery or a nondelivery of a disolved company.

For them it look only like someone not notice his/her claim against the disolved company. That is a civil case they not investiget. Phone calls to the comapny does not help at all you need somthing in written form to get been noticed.

When he made the books correctly, he put all advnces into the books and paid him a salary, paid social security on that amounts. Lifed from it and at a certain time the money was used up and he closed the business. In such a case it will be really hard to proof the scam.

Sir, lots of assumptions on your behalf. I haven't provided insufficient evidence, to date, I've provided ZERO evidence! I have yet to get anyone from the Denmark police to tell me exactly who's handling the case, and who to send the info to? So far, every person I am directed to via email, directs me to someone else, and the last guy has not responded to 2-3 emails at all? Hard to send my evidence, when the beaucracy in Denmark rivals that of our own.

Peter accepted money for products that he DID NOT produce, not too hard to prove that!! Now, whether Denmark Law Enforcement does anything about it is another story??

Aaron,
I had hoped that the information that my Danish friend provided would be a great help even knowing that it was going to go over to another division. From what I am seeing from several of you is that it either has not gotten all the way down the "the guy" yet or the wheels came off the bike. I would hope that through some persistance, and maybe going back up a step or two to re-establish the interest and the fact that someone has dropped the ball, might get something going. I know that when I first reached out to my friend, he was out on vacation for several weeks before I first heard back from him. Hope it works out for y'all.
Duke
DRSS
NRA Lifer

Guys:

When I got scammed in NZ, it took over a year for anything to happen. This may be the same.

Perhaps you could all band together and find a lawyer that could help. I would spend more money just to get the guy.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Guys:

When I got scammed in NZ, it took over a year for anything to happen. This may be the same.

Perhaps you could all band together and find a lawyer that could help. I would spend more money just to get the guy.

Larry - For me, its just the opposite. Of course I want to see justice served, but some things just aren't worth the additional headache. Secondly, I see no reason to throw good money after bad, just for some form of self-satisfaction? Cause we sure aren't gonna get our guns/money back!

Like I say, I would like to see the man charged/convicted of his crimes, and I have tried to get the info to the Danish authorities, but sooner or later a few thousand dollars just isn't worth the wasted time/effort, and certainly not additional money, JMO.

I hear what you are saying Aaron. I can't fault the logic.

In my case, I wanted to let him know that I was not going to sit there and take it. I didn't care what I spent. It was worth it to me just to show him that he couldn't get away with it.

He only got about $12,000 from me. However, he used my name to scam others out of well over $100,000. That really pissed me off.

Any developments in the case?



Best-
Locksley,R.

Locksley,

Nothing new as such. That is, from the DK police themselves.

I have from a trustworthy source that the person handling the case is or has been on a 2 week vacation. However, the said vacation is already over or should be soon.

I hope we hear from them before long.


-
Nemo.

Is the implication that a case (ie. investigation of a possible case, allegations etc.)has already been opened? That would certainly be a positive first step.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Is the implication that a case (ie. investigation of a possible case, allegations etc.)has already been opened? That would certainly be a positive first step.
Peter.

+1

Probably quickest to pay a little for some lads to do a quick tar and feathering...at least then the police would know people are upset and further action may follow their inaction

I found bunoushcu's post interesting. You need to present evidence that a scam in intended. this has to be documented. the fact that Aaron has not presented any evidence at all may be the reason that there is no action.

Goind back to bunoushcu's post, it is possible that the vendor could be seen by the authorities as just delayed supplies & then liquidated the company.

I guess the authorities will HAVE TO investigate if you submit some documented evidence like emails, letters, invoices, manufacturing specifications agreed and signed off with deposit etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Probably quickest to pay a little for some lads to do a quick tar and feathering...at least then the police would know people are upset and further action may follow their inaction

Agree!
Or as we pretend to live in the civilzed part of the world, couldn't one of the Dansih AR members (not PeterDK) be willing to collect all invices from buyers of Taksdale-non-excisting-double-riffles and hand them over to the Danish police? That should force them to act.

The buyers should also write to Peter sent in registred letters and claim the money back.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I found bunoushcu's post interesting. You need to present evidence that a scam in intended. this has to be documented. the fact that Aaron has not presented any evidence at all may be the reason that there is no action.

Goind back to bunoushcu's post, it is possible that the vendor could be seen by the authorities as just delayed supplies & then liquidated the company.

I guess the authorities will HAVE TO investigate if you submit some documented evidence like emails, letters, invoices, manufacturing specifications agreed and signed off with deposit etc.

Nakihunter,

I did send my documentation of transaction, etc. to the DK police. To 2 individuals, in point of fact and still no actual response to my report nor any proof of activity.

I am sure that (most of) the others have also sent documentation with their complaint, but even if it was just me, they should have responded before now.

I will be refiling soon and we'll see if anything comes of it.

-
Nemo.

This guy has horses right?

I guess he never saw 'The Godfather'

What a mess. If I've got the story right, I'm wondering why you guys would send money to someone who had never offered any proof that he's actually made a rifle, without (apparently) even seeing a photo of one, or of his factory, and without even asking for a single reference of a customer who had bought one? What did he offer that reputable companies like Searcy and Heym didn't?

quote:

Originally posted by Indy:
If I've got the story right

No, not entirely ...
To address some of your other questions:
Good, honest people tend to believe others are good, honest people ...
Sometimes we're wrong

He did provide photgraphic "proof" of a couple double rifles. See here: http://www.facebook.com/pages/...ifle/146722612017963

One of which was handled and shot by a reputable gentleman of our aquaintance.

Peter Als Nerving talked the talk, promised a quality product at as little above cost as possible and threw around names of reputable people in the gun/double rifle industry

For insance he claimed that Baily Bradshaw was to be doing all repair work for his clients in the US. I checked wi/ Mr. Bradshaw, and he said that Peter had mentioned it to him, but that nothing had ever been confirmed.


As to what he offered, it was a plain-jane box-lock ejector double rifle for for around or under $7,000 USD.

Having got my money back from my Sabatti fiasco, I liked the IDEA of a decent double rifle for under $10,000. Turns out, as the old saying goes- "If something is too good to be true, it is."


Peter Als Nerving is slicker than deer guts on a door-nob.


-
Nemo.

[/QUOTE]
Good, honest people tend to believe others are good, honest people ...
Sometimes we're wrong[/QUOTE]

Very well stated Doc!!

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:

quote:

Originally posted by Indy:
If I've got the story right

No, not entirely ...
To address some of your other questions:
Good, honest people tend to believe others are good, honest people ...
Sometimes we're wrong

Ditto!

I read the whole thread to see what outcome there was. I agree, godfather horse scenario. horses are expensive, and likely he's very attached to them. I doubt that it'd be hard to get an element in denmark to help with that for a reasonable price, as it sounds like their law enforcement sucks ass and probably are as soft on that sort of thing as our stateside enforcement is.

there's no chance of getting your money back, and it isn't worth the head ache, and being so far away you can't realistically get enough word out to stop a good scam artist from continuing. a pound of flesh though, even horse flesh, is better than nothing.

Red

Has anybody tried contacting the Danish Embassey in your country for assistance ?

I'm sorry to here about your problems, especially the slow work of the police

Have you tried the danish consumers organisation ? It is an organisation under the danish government which overlooks all trade in Denmark. You can file a complaint on their website, as long as the amount is more than DKK800 or US$145.

Web page, with much better english explanation than i am capable of :

Consumers Org


All the best !!!


PS. Choose english in upper right hand corner.

Steen

Well there is several good Danish hunting magazines also that maybe would be interested and Nordisk Safari Klub also perhaps. Or a lawyer also maybe if the police wont go ahead with the case.

If the police situation is the same as here in Norway, it is likely that the case will be dropped as the budget aint that big or other things comes up in line.

Jorge,
Since you have a judgement against him, is it not possible to take the appropriate steps yourself to collect the money. Here in Colorado, with a judgement, we can garnish wages, bank accounts, file writs of execution(which means if the defendant has a vehicle that there are no liens on, we can have it picked up for a sheriff's sale). It takes a little leg work but at least there is some compensation. If you have one of the local police that owes you a good turn, he can run the plates and see if there are liens on it. Some states don't have much you can do, but you might check.

pago, we've tried that, but the local cops just aren't interested. The lawyer we had on retainer basically told me we were in a process of diminishing returns given costs versus gain. Basically all I want right now it to make him suffer, but alas there is no real vehicle to do that. jorge

You guys are Pussies! Warrants, LE just an excuse to not do anything. The criminal justice system works for them not for you. The crook wins and you lose!
BTW, You can find Anyone in about 15 minutes if you try just a little. Summons servers do it every day.
Next Make a charitable donation to the local Hells Angels chapter, or the Vagos or Pagans ( they all have european chapters) and discuss the situation with their representative. Don't kid yourselves, these biker gangs can be quite helpful in finding people too and have no moral issues either. You will be surprised at how receptive and helpful they are( depends on the size of the donation of course). If he had my money thats what I'd do.
I hate thieves.-Rob