quote:

Originally posted by Stan-Elephant Trail:
Yes, $100,000 is a lot for a gun. That is why I have not ordered it.

Indeed, I couldn't agree more, even though we often help guys with purchasing a bespoke gun . My personal preference is to buy a vintage gun or a rebuild. You get all the gun at a fraction of the cost.

Sometimes it takes a while to find the right one but given time and the right budget, the right thing usually turns up eventually.

K

Sounds like Westley isnt in any hurry to make $50k+...If I was them I'd be on the phone pronto.

I agree with both Grenadier and Tendrams. There are many doubles besidedes a VC at lesser cost that will do exactly what a Holland & Holland Royal will do. How about Heym, Chapuis, Krieghoff, and Searcy. However, these are not guns with "collector" value. A well cared for H&H or a Purdey for that matter will always gain in value.

I have a good friend that has a super duper Mercedes. I just bought a VW Passat diesel. Over five years, my car will depreciate more than his.

If you can afford it, I say go for it. An H&H or a Purdey has "investment" value but most of us can't afford the investment.

I just went to the Purdey & Sons web site. They are so exclusive, the don't even show you their guns...LOLOL. You have a make an appointment. They have a nice line of clothes though.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Little:
Sounds like Westley isnt in any hurry to make $50k+...If I was them I'd be on the phone pronto.

quote:

Originally posted by jvw375:
Much the same with Clode after he recently fired 100% of his skilled workforce (including his daughter) as a result of a petty wage dispute. All Westley's at this time will be made in the trade as he doesn't have any other choice. Of course, that's probably not an entirely bad thing...

Maybe there's a connection? I have visited WR, and was shown their workshops, on the upper floor of their showroom.

If they now have farmed out manufacture of their rifles to "the trade" (can someone confirm this in more detail?), then I personally would be wary about who exactly was now building their rifles

I think the reason why H&W have such a long lead-time, is that every step of manufacture is overseen by either Gerhard Hartmann or Otto Weiss. But I worry about their ages, and for how long they can keep building guns

The value of any thing in life is in the eye of the beholder. If money is of no issue, then the eye has a wider field of view, and more options are open.

H&H's, McKay Brown's, Purdey's, or Boss' are hopefully long term investments for buyers, but most who buy them do so because they want the nostalgia of owning the premier guns of the trade. For these folks, it's not about the investment or the cost, it's about getting what they want, and that's great for the gun industry.

I believe Grulla makes a custom double rifle that is an exact copy of a H&H royal, for around $40,000. They don't sell very many, because those who can, buy an H&H. Others who want a high quality sidelock based on an H&H design but a lot less money, may choose a Merkel sidelock.

I currently have a new in box Merkel sidelock .470 with fabulous wood and nice excellent engraving, and Merkels are always well regulated. This gun is offered at $19,995. That brings a lot more customers into the sidelock pool. VC or Heym doesn't offer a well made sidelock in that price range. And a new Searcy, which I really like, is also in the $35,000 range.

If money is no option, then an H&H would be in my crosshairs. But if I wanted a well built, well fitted, and well regulated sidelock, and on a budget, then the Merkel sidelock is an obvious choice.

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:
The value of any thing in life is in the eye of the beholder. If money is of no issue, then the eye has a wider field of view, and more options are open.

H&H's, McKay Brown's, Purdey's, or Boss' are hopefully long term investments for buyers, but most who buy them do so because they want the nostalgia of owning the premier guns of the trade. For these folks, it's not about the investment or the cost, it's about getting what they want, and that's great for the gun industry.

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:
Others who want a high quality sidelock based on an H&H design but a lot less money, may choose a Merkel sidelock.

I currently have a new in box Merkel sidelock .470 with fabulous wood and nice excellent engraving, and Merkels are always well regulated. This gun is offered at $19,995. That brings a lot more customers into the sidelock pool. VC or Heym doesn't offer a well made sidelock in that price range.

If money is no option, then an H&H would be in my crosshairs. But if I wanted a well built, well fitted, and well regulated sidelock, and on a budget, then the Merkel sidelock is an obvious choice.

Good to hear. always was interested in their sidelock.

Really nothing wrong with a Merkel. The one I owned was well regulated and strong as an ox. I had no complaints. The only reason I upgraded was because, well, my field of view opened up a little at the time. Not wide enough for an H&H though. At least not yet!

I have handled Merkel a few time in Windhoek. It's shoulder very well and nicely balance, but just like Todd Williams wrote "my field of view opened up a little at the time".

I am sure most of us agree that Mercedes is a great vehicle. However, Bentley is a much more refined one. Then RR is one step above. Same like these double rifles we are discussing. They are all good rifles, but some is better in quality, built and finished than the others. I do appreciate high quality product,but I am not a collector. I use and push everything I bought to its limit. I think I will be better off buying several guns like MacD37 has suggested or buying a vintage gun.

Stan

I visit the H&H shop frequently in London and while the few doubles look good (not outstanding) I am regularly shocked about the bolt action rifles. You get better wood in Germany even on a 5k rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by jaegerfrank:
I visit the H&H shop frequently in London...I am regularly shocked about the bolt action rifles.

Sad but true