Hi Guys,

I have orderd a 45-70 double rifle and wanted to know what you guys would recommend for a decent deer and hog load for it. The gun will be regulated with Hornady Revolution 325 flex tips.

I was thinking of a good cast bullet, but i also like Hornady 350 round nose as well.

Knowing that I'll have to load and shoot every one of these before I will discover the right combination of regulation, I just thought I would ask you guys for your recommendations to start with.

Thanks in advance!!

Take Care!

Hi Guys,

Me Again,

I was just wondering if maybe I should have asked this question on the reloading portion of the forum instead of the double rifle portion?

Should I move this? or is this the right place for it?

Thanks for your guidance!!

The load it is regulated with is the load you should use.
Bill

Well,

I know I should, but I was wondering if I should consider another less powerful load to shoot dear and hogs with and something that wouldn't put all the stress on it those Revolutions do.

OR.....should I just stay with the regulated load for everything?

its regulated, unless adjutable, for a given load .. it MIghT do okay with another load ... but odds-on, its a fairly mild 45/70 load its regulated for.. call the maker and ask for the load.. if a remington/baikal, its somewhat adjustable

Thanks,

It's not a Baikal. It's a custom being built for me. I was thinking the regulation load would be fine, but thought that if i really wanted to shoot it alot, I should shoot something a little lighter.

You guys do know what you're doing and your advice is awesome. I really appreciate it.

I will have to work on some loads and just keep working at it until I find something that works and is not so hard on the gun.

It's a quality piece, but I love to shoot alot and those Hornady's do get pricy if you buy them.

I really do appreciate all your help and if you come up with anything else I need to consider, please feel free to jump in here and add it.

Thanks Guys!!

Take Care!!

For a lighter load, I would suggest the 75% Rule. Many, probably most or even almost all, double rifles will shoot well with a load that untilizes a bullet 75% of the weight of the bullet it was regulated with sitting over the same powder load it was regulated with (or another powder producing roughly the same velocity.) You may need to fidle with the load, up or down a bit, to get get the lighter bullet shooting really well, but that recipe should get you close.

Now, for shooting cheaper, and for the basis of your 75% load's powder charge, you will need to work up a load which essentially duplicates the load for which the rifle was regulated. Same bullet weight, same velocity, hopefully same powder. But if you cannot determine which powder was used, you can select a couple of suitable powders and work them toward the velocity of the load which was used for regulation. Some powders will acieve a regulating load a bit faster or a bit slower than the actual load used to regulate the rifle. Some powders may just prove unseccessful as well.

Once you have found a load matching the regulation load, and developed your 75% load, you can explore full weight or 75% weight cast bullets to find good shooting loads which are even less expensive to shoot.

If you do a search around "regulation" here on this forum, you should find more than enough data to get a decent grip on the art of producing loads which shoot to regulation in a double rifle. Make sure your search goes back several years. Try one using my screen name, I have participated in several threads over the years on the topic. Mac37 also.

The book "Shooting the British Double Rifle" by Graeme Wright, now in it third edition - I have the second, also gives an exelent discussion on how to go about finding a load which shoots to regulation.

Hope this helps. If you need more, ask.

JPK

Just a thought that came up because of JPK'S POST.

Why not get the gun regulated for some factory load and then use the 75% load to get a lighter load to shoot more often ?

Hey Guys,

That is some awesome information and I really do appreciate all your time and help with this issue. I have learned quite a lot by reading the postings on this site over the past year or so and I just keep learning more and more every time I get on and read it.

You guys are a wealth of information and very helpful. Thanks for all your help.

Take Care!!

OK,

I have another question for you....

If I asked my builder to regualate my new gun with a different load, what would be your recommendation for a load.

I suppose I would have to reload some rounds and send them to him to regulate with.

What are your thoughts and suggestions for a good load?

thanks.

Why not just duplicate the 325 grain load and hand load that to make it cheaper? When you're that light already the 75% rule won't work anyway.
Get some of those factory loads run over a chrony so you know what to 'shoot for'and do the same thing at home.

Thanks Mike,

That's another good idea. I was just looking at my Cabelas catalog at the price of those. For a box of 50, they run $28.99. That's about the price for a full box of factory loads at the store.

I was just thinking originally that I might be able to match it with a cast bullet round.

I suppose I should load up on those Hornady's for my reloading in the future. Someone on one of these threads said Hornady may drop that load in the future. I sure hope not.

This sure gives me lots to ponder on.

Thanks for your time.

Take Care!!

In addition to all that above, I just found some 325 grain GC on Beartooths website. They are supposed to be good on deer, bear and hogs and provide an accurate round, with light recoil.

I wonder if that would be a good choice to try out as well.

any thoughts on that?

North Fork makes a great 350 grain flat point .458 soft for the 45--70 I use them exclusively now on hogs in a Marlin 1895 GG. They are awsom on big hogs, little ones you can line em up 2 or 3 at a time. Great penetration and performance. They are too pricy for practice but the "bee's knees" for serious work. Should be great in a double at any velocity if they will regulate. Good luck

Thanks Tetonka,

I was wondering what a heavier bullet would do if i slowed it down. Some say it would cross at 50 yards or even closer and would spread afterwards. I have no idea how to sight in a double rifle. That's why I read this thread so much.

Thanks for your response!!

You are going to have to make an honest assesment of how much your're going to shoot it. Then decide if spending several hundred for reloading set up and more for casting molds pots ect really makes it cheaper to shoot that rifle. I think that for many buying the factory fodder mkes more sense. You can always sell the brass later on to get some of the cost back.

I've used the following weights of hard cast gas checked bullets in .45/70 in my double rifle and my 1895CB Marlin:

Beartooth
405
425
525
They have a 450, but I haven't used it.
Beartooth http://www.beartoothbullets.com

CPC
420
460

Jae-Bok Young has nice 420 and 550 gr cast bullets too.
Jae-Bok Young http://www.competitor-pistol.com/jb%20home.html


Also consider the 405 gr Remington JFN bullet. They are cheaper than the store bought cast ones. So, unless you do your own casting, they might work for you.

For the .450 NE, I got some Hawk 480 grain soft-nose with the thin 0.025" jacket for light game. Pure copper jacket that is anealled and soft, pure lead core. Core is not welded to jacket, but it doesn't matter for this application.

I've had a Kodiak Mark IV in .45/70, made by Pedersoli since 1990. Mine is the older, Trail Guns Armory type with browned barrels that are quite heavy. The newer ones have slimmer, blued tubes from photos that I have seen.

Mine has two individual rear sights, each adjustable for windage and elevation. The rib has two dovetails, one for each sight. I have seen photos of some that have the folding leaves on a base so there must be some variations in production through the years.

Mine shoots best with the 405 grainers, but is okay with the 425s and 460s. The 405s shoot well whether at factory velocities or the higher ones shown below. The rifle likes both cast and jacketed bullets. The 525s spread apart too much (my 1895 Marlin likes them though) and I will not increase the velocities to attempt to bring them together on the target. I am not trying for maximum velocities. The results below might show increased velocities with other powders.

Average velocities out of the Kodiak Mark IV in .45/70 24" bbls.:

1250 fps with a Remington 405 grain JFN Factory Load
1650 fps with a Remington 405 grain JFN
1700 fps with a Beartooth 405 grain HCGC
1730 fps with a Beartooth 425 grain HCGC
1650 fps with a CPC 460 grain HCGC
1500 fps with a Beartooth 525 grain HCGC

I wouldn't rechamber mine. It is nice as it is. It is far less expensive than an antique hammer gun. For the price, (I paid $1,500 with wood, leather and canvas case in 1990) it is a nice hunting double rifle for most things. For more power I will use my soon to be finished Searcy Field Grade double rifle in .450 Nitro Express.

Hey Thanks Guys,

Mike, I already have a ton of reloading equipment and components for 45-70. I will just have to pick up some of those Hornady revolution flex tips for reloading in the future.

Bwana_Dave,
I appreciate the feedback. That is some great info. I haven't heard of Jae-Bok Young before.

It appears that I've got my work cut out for me. I'll just have to load and shoot different loads until I find the one that works best for my rifle.

Thanks for your time guys!!

Take Care

dbl

I'd ask your gun to be regulated to a factory 400gn load
and then with your reloading equipment work out a load
for the 300 and a 325 grn bullet.

That's just my HO.

Also means if anyone else in the future buys the gun,
then they can always work around the factory loads if
needed.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
dbl

I'd ask your gun to be regulated to a factory 400gn load
and then with your reloading equipment work out a load
for the 300 and a 325 grn bullet.

That's just my HO.

Also means if anyone else in the future buys the gun,
then they can always work around the factory loads if
needed.

X2

If your gun is regulated for the century plus old 405gr load, it will have a source of relatively cheap factory ammo forever. Remington would be my choice.

Then go and develop your 75% and other loads.

I'd ask for rem 405s at 1650fps .. easy, light enough, and should hold together..
BUT .. if its being BUILT for me, it would be 45/120, with rem 405 at 2000fps .. light, easy, perfect load

What Jeffe said, PLUS ONE!!

Rich

I would warn you to do some testing with the flex tips BEFORE you spec your rifle for it. To be fair, I have never shot them in .458. I will however warn you that the 160 grain flextip in .308 for the .308 marlin express is way TOO SOFT for shots under 100 yards. The core consistantly seperates from the jacket on whitetail deer. I've shot 8 with it at under 100 yards and only had 2 complete passthroughs on a shoulder joint shot ( 100 pound does)and on the Bucks shot the bullet broke up on the shoulder joint and at best collapsed 1 lung only. No exit wounds! I will not use it on deer anymore and certainly would not use it on larger game. If the .458 version is the same construction, they are useless! Test before you specify!!

WOW!!

You guys are a wealth of information. I truly do appreciate any and all of your help and advice!!

I obviously have some work to do.

Thanks guys!!

Please feel free to keep giving me advice on this. Every piece of information helps.

The Classic hand load for a long time had a 405 gr. bullet @ 1750 fps.
It was good for most any thing. I don't know the load data off the top of my head but it was Elmer Kieth's favorite load.

Its not going to recoil that much in a double rifle.

John