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For about $15,000 or less. I'm looking for practical, long-lasting and lightweight. I'd prefer 24" at most. I'd prefer automatic ejectors. Which gunmaker? And what are pros/cons or tradeoffs I might need to consider. | ||
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If they aren't I'd be concerned that they're broke........... Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Searcy or Chapuis! NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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I own 2 450/400 3" doubles in this category - one is a Searcy, the other a round action Verney Carron. I would recommend both without hesitation. | |||
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Find one with 26" barrels. the balance look and feel will be nicer. My vintage 450/400 3 inch has 26" barrels. Delightful! Extractor, ejectors mine has ejectors, I don't mind extractors. Buy one of Butch's rifles. great price, great customer service. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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I am ordering a Searcy 500NE.I past by their both at SCI.I shouldered one of there rifles(field grade) and opened the action.The thing felt very solid and smooth.I took one look down the bores and liked the rifling(very crisp). | |||
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Be patient and look for a decent British rifle to come along in that caliber and price range, even if you have to give up ejectors and go with extractors. You will have a nice rifle that will hold its value far better than any modern manufactured rifle. [Edited: And to Rusty's point, I think you would be better off with 26" barrels from a handling and aesthetics perspective.] Mike | |||
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In that price range you can consider a vintage English double. You will have history and proven reliability. Your barrel length requirement should be easy to find as will be ejectors. Mike, above, is correct as to holding its value. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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I would also agree with Mike and Cal: http://members.toast.net/keithkearcher/saleguns.html The Charles Osborne at the bottom would certainly fit the bill.....assuming it checks out.... Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Reread what Mike, Cal and Rusty wrote. I have owned at least 7 English rifles in that caliber and made a profit on each one I sold in order to have a custom English sidelock made to order in 450-400 3 1/4. They do hold their value and are really a work of art. Just my 2 cents. Dutch | |||
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If you want to spend $15,000 order a Heym. If you want an accurate double for a lot less money that will shoot just as good as the Heym without a lot of additional bells and extras order the Field Grade Searcy for $8,750. Everyone has different tastes but I have no desire to go vintage. I want a rifle built for me, not built for someone else 80-100 years ago. Weather or not they hold their value better really depends on what you paid for it in the first place. I have seen many doubles for sale on here and other forums and it is getting pretty common to see a "price reduced" posting time after time. Buy the rifle because you want to use it, not because you think you might make a buck or two. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Hey Snow, I was on Butch's site and I didnot see any field grade rifles on there. Is this something that you have to call and ask for? Double Rifles, This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as bolt rifle. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age. DRSS Chapuis 9.3x74R NRA Life Member | |||
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Just send him a PM. He has posted here a couple of times recently concerning these rifles. Scrool back a couple of pages on this forum and you can read about it. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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The Searcy field grade is a no nonsense working rifle.It is also a good looking rifle regardless of the price.With an old rifle you are dealing with oxidation,erosion of the wood,worn out engraving,worn out rifling or enlarged bores and a general dull appearance.There is also the risk of issues with the action mechanism,IMO.Also,a rifle that was fitted for someone else.You can`t make an old car new no matter what you change. | |||
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For that price, if you want to shoot the most accurate double rifle on the market, solidly built and a pleasure to shoot in 450-400 then get a Searcy. Order it from Butch with the quarter rib and built-in Talley mounting system and then you can use your iron sights, a scope or a Trijicon RMR with it.  | |||
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If you are not hung up on SxS guns the Zoli is a great gun for under $10,000   Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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What an ignorant blanket statement.  Deo Vindice, Don Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780 | |||
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Yeh, those old pre-War Hollands, Rigbys, Westley Richards and the like are just crap, pure and simple. Kudos for calling those out that were suggesting English made doubles. Mike | |||
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Mike and DD: Do you know of a market where I can dump my oxidized, eroded, worn out and dull 8-bores, 4-bore, .600, .500, .450, and .450-400? Throw in my Scott and Watson shotguns for good measure. I realize now what crap I have been collecting, shooting, and hunting with over the years and, before the value hits zero, what to get at least something out of them to upgrade to a Sabatti, Heym, or Merkel, (Bikal, too), and maybe a matched pair of SKSs (in oak and leather, of course). I'm also starting to get an eye for the mass produced stainless, synthetic, braked bolt rifles. Fluted barrel, of course. Your help is appreciated. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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With any rifle you have a stock,an action and a sighted barrel it is as simple as that.If you want a very nice stock then there are the master gun builders who can make you one, same goes for the filing and metal work.I don`t see anything magical about an English double.I saw the new Hollands and Purdys at SCI it is all jewelry,IMO.On the other hand if the actions on the old english doubles were made much better than the current modern actions available then there may be a reason to go to old English. | |||
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Cal, send them to me. I will dispose of them for you and send you a ported Sabatti with a custom synthetic thumb hole stock. That's what friends are for.  Deo Vindice, Don Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780 | |||
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Folks that have forgotten more about rifles and double rifles than you can ever aspire to even know, have a different view. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and everyone's opinion is entitled to have just as much credibility attached to it as is deserved by their knowledge and experience base. I think I have a pretty good idea of how much credibility to assign the foregoing view. Mike | |||
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Mike,What did you like more in your old Holland than you did in your other more modern doubles? I am asking you because I think that I will get an intelligent response.I think I know what I would get if I asked someone else(headache).Does it function better? | |||
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Metal and wood fit and finish is far superior to most modern doubles. The English had stock design down to an art in terms of controlling recoil, feeling good from a handling and pointability perspective and functionality. It is no accident that companies like Heym are now going back and designing and manufacturing English-like doubles. The intangible is that you are holding and hunting with a brand, and in many cases a specific rifle, with a rich and storied past. You are literally holding a piece of history in your hands, albeit a piece of history that is completely functional on par with any modern rifle. As MasterCard would say, that latter point is Priceless. Mike | |||
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Mike: I second your reply. While new doubles are beautiful and very expensive there is something about the vintage rifles that put them a step above their newer counterparts. Fit, form, lines, balance all seem, to me at least, a bit more refined. Since there was no CNC machine work, the skill of a true craftsman shines though rather than a craftsman who is skilled at setting up a computer. The engraving is more fine and intricate. As to the matter of function and accuracy, I think vintage doubles shoot as well as do today's rifles. If accuracy is all that matters then the added bonus of history and quality are a plus. To reply to Shootaway, why have the new makers not been able to improve on accuracy, fit, form, finish in the past 100 years? I believe the answer is the old masters reached the zenith of their craft. A new auto's technology is far superior to an old auto and the same with scope sights and most everything today, including medical care. Not so with a rifle. My opinion anyway. Cheers, mate. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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IMO,we are living in those same times but the names have just changed and the desire to build a good rifle has no home town. | |||
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Do names like Hagn,Rabeno,Satterlee mean anything etc...? | |||
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. . . and Wiebe . . . and why exactly do so many of the custom rifle makers try to replicate the style and finish of the British express rifles, all the way to the color of the stain in the stocks . . . imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Mike | |||
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Just because of fashion but all gunmakers have their own styles. | |||
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Cal,Don and Mike, Shushhhh,,  Any resistances are futile. Not matter the subject he knows more than the collective accumulation of all mankind! NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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So how many english DR's or any others currently reside in your safe? Have any ever resided in your safe? NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Wow! That's some GROSSLY inaccurate advice! Where do you even begin debunking that load of crap.... Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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+1 If he has any I'll be willing to take them of his hands and drop them off at the scrap yard for $30 a piece..... Brett PS> Perhaps I can burn the stocks in my fireplace......it's been a cold winter. DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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I have used this quote before, probably with reference to George, but sometimes it is good for me to remind myself: "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." -- George Bernard Shaw Mike | |||
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 I got to see this! Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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To get back on track....the biggest thing you can do is handle and shoot as many different make and age models as you can, so you can form an EDUCATED opinion for yourself that was not garnered from an internet forum. For me I started out thinking I would buy a Heym.....then I handled an English double. Since that day nothing else would do. That's my nature. When I know something is the best I rarely want anything else.....within reason. If that's not you not problem. Just buy a gun with an informed mind through the experience of handling and shooting doubles. Have patience. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Damn dude! Just like kicking a hornets nest for fun? Listen, in this world, to to which I am new, one does not bash old english. Its just not done. Its like farting in front of the Queen or questioning his Holiness John Moses Browning. The British Empire at its hight, made the finest Doubles. We find this truth self-evident. Everything else is just playing catch up. I hope one day to have Holland and WR or (insert name here). For now, im stuck with a Frog Rifle! Double Rifles, This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as bolt rifle. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age. DRSS Chapuis 9.3x74R NRA Life Member | |||
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I really think the Chapuis fits your specifications almost perfectly. JJ at Champlin sells them for $9900.00. I have one on order and it should be here next month. BUTCH C'est Tout Bon (It is all good) | |||
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A bit of a typo isn't it? Should have been "Damn Dud" NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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