I need some 500 Nitro Express 3 inch ammo for testing. Need at least 2 rounds of each. I would like some original 500 BPE black powder loads with paper patch bullets, nitro for black loads or light cordite, 500 NE cordite loads both solid and soft, current factory ammo Kynoch,Norma,Hornady and any other factory ammo. I don't wish to buy full boxes as this would be very expensive. I just need 2 or so of each. I will gladly pay for ammo and shipping.
My plans are to use test ammo for testing pressures and working up safe loads for both BPE and NE double rifles. If any of you wish to have a load tested I'll be glad to add them to the tests.

Thanks,

Sam

Sam,

I have some Norma PH softs and solids but you have to promise to return the nickel-plated brass and to NOT let Michael allow it to bounce all over the concrete floors.

Paul,

Sure I'll send you brass back and will try to keep Michael from ejecting it over his shoulder to the concrete floor. You know him well!!!

Thanks,

Sam

Sam,

PM Sent.

Paul

Sam, PM me you address and I'll send you 2 ea Hornady DGX and DGS 500 NE.

Thanks Paul!

OK that takes care of Norma. I will probably use Hornady for control so I will buy a whole box of that. Any others I still need.

Sam

Biebs, Thanks!

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Sam, PM me you address and I'll send you 2 ea Hornady DGX and DGS 500 NE.

Huhhh? What kind of junk are you shooting? Cheap!

HEH......

Michael, I got a box of Northfork solids for my 2 505 rifles...I'm playing around with them now. The 500 NE Hornady is awaiting my next DR. Might have to lay in some 577s as well!

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Michael, I got a box of Northfork solids for my 2 505 rifles...I'm playing around with them now. The 500 NE Hornady is awaiting my next DR. Might have to lay in some 577s as well!

505 North Forks are good! New nose profile? Curious is all.

577 BBW#13s? I have some of those!

M

Michael, yes...these are the new nose profile to assist in easier feeding. I'm not sure on the 577 yet...as I approach 60, I want to make sure the 577 is still within my capabilities, both from a weight and recoil standpoint. 10 years from now, I don't want my Depends dropping down around my ankles every time I touch one off ! :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Might have to lay in some 577s as well!

I'll believe it when I see it ...

Even then, why get the ammo - you know you'll sell it before ever taking a shot ...

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
I'm not sure on the 577 yet...as I approach 60, I want to make sure the 577 is still within my capabilities, both from a weight and recoil standpoint. 10 years from now, I don't want my Depends dropping down around my ankles every time I touch one off ! :-)

If my 70 year old (at the time) father can carry his own 585AHR practice with it regularly and shoot it well enough off-hand to take his Cape buffalo you, young man, are more than capable of doing the same.

Ok, you big macho 600 NE kind-of-guy!!! :-)

Sam,
Where are you located in NC? I think I still have some A Square 570gr Lion Loads. I'm between Winston-Salem and Greensboro.

Ed,

I'm between Fayetteville and Wilmington.

Sam

Sam, mine are boxed up and will be out tomorrow, to you on Monday.

Jon

Thanks Jon!

And Sam, you're right...Michael is a knucklehead :-)

G'day Sam.

Hope Mike passed on the message that I still can't get through to your e-mail.
I received yours the other day but couldn't respond to it.

If you need to get a hold of me at all you can pass on the message through Mike for now until we sort this out.

I've got quite a while to go before I get my V.C and maybe not even before this years hunting season but if I do then I might lean on you for some info on loads using the #13 non-cons.
The gun is being regulated with Hornadays so I'll need some similar loads using Aussie powders.

Cheers,
Paul.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
And Sam, you're right...Michael is a knucklehead :-)

FYI

Sam and I are getting set up to do chamber pressures and barrel strains in 500 Nitro, that's what this is all about. I am sending him gages for him to set up on a 500 Nitro. Both Pressure Traces have been returned from Arizona, both have been upgraded and are supposed to be working. Today, and tomorrow, I am going to check out both systems to make sure they are working and no issues.

It's going to be a fun project, and expect we will learn a great deal from it. Possible start next week or the one thereafter.

Michael

Sam tells me he has set up a series of butterfly nets that you wear like peacock feathers to catch brass as it ejects from the double.

He also said he enjoys watching you turn in circles trying to catch a glimpse of your plumage like a dog chasing its tail.

Supposed to be on YouTube soon ...

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
Sam tells me he has set up a series of butterfly nets that you wear like peacock feathers to catch brass as it ejects from the double.

He also said he enjoys watching you turn in circles trying to catch a glimpse of your plumage like a dog chasing its tail.

Supposed to be on YouTube soon ...

I will remember that when I shoot your nickel plated brass!!!!!!!

HEH.................

Oppps, missed the Net!

M

Sam,

The only factory ammo I have is 2/3 of a box of Hornady DGS's which you are welcome to if you need more. I have a variety of .510 570 gr bullets if you need some for comparison tests.

Just let me know...happy to provide.

Lane,

Thanks for the offer, I have a box on the way and several others are sending some different stuff. Right now I still need a couple of Federal and some of the old stuff. As far as bullets I think I have most everything covered. Might need some of those odd ball custom bullets that I don't have. I will be willing to test anything you guys want tested. Michael and I are going to put my gun through the ringer and see how the 500 data compares to our old 470 tests. There will be alot of the same stuff and much more. I really want to play with light loads to be used in BPE guns too.

Sam

quote:

I really want to play with light loads to be used in BPE guns too.

Sam

Sam, that would be great. I run across old BPE 500 and 577 rifles at times, and wonder what one could get out of the safely with smokeless powders. Knowing pressures would be the Cat's Ass.

Maybe after the 500 we'll do a 577 test!

Got to keep Michael busy so we'll all have something interesting to read!

Sam,
If you want I can send you some 370 gr hollow points I use in my 500 NFB loads along with the loading info. I'm getting 1800 fps and good accuracy and regulation out of them. I don't have any loaded at this time. Also have some 340 and 400 gr bullets if you want to try them also.
Best.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Lane,

Thanks for the offer, I have a box on the way and several others are sending some different stuff. Right now I still need a couple of Federal and some of the old stuff. As far as bullets I think I have most everything covered. Might need some of those odd ball custom bullets that I don't have. I will be willing to test anything you guys want tested. Michael and I are going to put my gun through the ringer and see how the 500 data compares to our old 470 tests. There will be alot of the same stuff and much more. I really want to play with light loads to be used in BPE guns too.

Sam

Hi Sam,

As already discussed...for my own use...I have settled on the CEB's and am more interested in more powder research in the .500 NE. More R-15 data would be good and as we discussed...R-17 needs to be explored...you should PM NFMike as he has explore R-17 in the .500 NE a bit already and has reams of R-15 data using NF FPS in his peassure barrel. IMR 4007ssc is another area of interest for me in the .500 as already discussed with Michael.

If I can provide anything...also have some old style .510 NF FPS's...just holler...even if it just a bottle of Grey Goose!

Sam

Only load up rounds on your end for CHAMBER PRESSURE ONLY!


All the barrel strain we need to load here, and this is why. From what I learned about barrel strain with the 458 B&M we don't need or even want full power loads and those pressures causing spikes in the readings or irregularities. We got real lucky with the 470s. And, full loads with the 500 Nitro might do the same, but I think what we need to do with barrel strain data is get the load down to less chamber pressures so that we have NOTHING at the end except barrel strain only at that point. So we might experiment a little here with loads that are much less chamber pressure so that pressure disperses before reaching the barrel strain gage. I had to do this in the 458 B&M, but of course the barrels are a lot shorter as well. We will see.

Checking my .510 inventory here

535 North Fork FPS--Plenty of them.
570 Barnes Banded--20
570/532 BBW#13s---Hundreds of them! HEH.........

I have NO WOODLEIGH SOFTS

Hoping you have plenty of Woodleigh Softs--I would like for that to be the "BENCHMARK" bullet again. I assume EVERYONE with a double considers a Woodleigh Soft Safe in anything?


YES--this is going to be fun!!!!!!!!! Discovery is always FUN!!!!!!!!

Michael

I think I purged a lot of my .510 inventory when we had the BBW#13s done. I sure don't need anything else.

Sam
Bring lot's of empty brass--I don't have anymore, gave it all to Richard. Maybe we should get some new Hornady brass in for this???? Let me know, I can get it on the way.

I of course have the dies and everything else, most of the powders. I also have a can of RL 17 we can work with. You know most all else I have here, lot's of IMR 4350, lot's of IMR 4831 too. And whatever else.

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Sam
Bring lot's of empty brass--I don't have anymore, gave it all to Richard. Maybe we should get some new Hornady brass in for this???? Let me know, I can get it on the way.

I of course have the dies and everything else, most of the powders. I also have a can of RL 17 we can work with. You know most all else I have here, lot's of IMR 4350, lot's of IMR 4831 too. And whatever else.

M

IMR-4007 SSC !

Guys,

I have some Woodleigh Softs that I can send if you need them???

50 calshtr, Thanks I have some 340 gr and even 300 grain bullets. If your are paper patched I might want a few to try. I have paper patch molds but bullets are too small. Got to make another mold or open up the one I have.
Right now I think Michael and I can cover most anything as far as bullet types and powders and fillers. What I need is some original BPE,NFB and other cordite loads to compare. I shot the only 500 NE cordite load I had for the 500 penetration tests ans we didn't have strain gages hooked up to get a pressure.
I have a box of Hornady ammo on the way and have plenty of Woodleigh softs for control. Would love to get a couple of factory Woodleigh softs from Kynoch or Federal to shoot to get a velocity and pressure.

Sam

500 NE or BPE shooters! Michael and I are going to start testing 500 loads tomorrow so if any of you have a load that you want tested let me know. I have already got lots of BPE and NFB plus full nitro loads ready. I'm using a lot of the same loads Gramme Wright used in his book for comparison. We will be testing all available bullets and several new powders. We still need some original loads to try. So far I have not found any Cordite stuff.

Sam

Michael and I got a lot of testing done today and it will take a few days to post it all. We didn't have any factory ammo of any kind to shoot today. A couple of great guys sent Hornady and Norma ammo but it didn'y arrive in time for todays tests.
Again if any of you have other factory ammo I would love to get 2 rounds each for our tests. I will gladly pay for it.
I think you will really like the results of our tests so far and the more ammo we can test the better our results will be.
Thanks, Sam

Should have the Norma stuff by tomorrow I'd imagine.

Thanks Paul, We plan of doing more testing next week and Michael has my gun so he can do some if he gets time. Hope he doesn't own a hacksaw!!

I hope to get the data entered today and have something for you guys with 500s. Sam and I run 47 strings of data to compile, which is quite a bit. Normal days I would get 15, big days, 20. But we had an excellent system sorted out, but it still takes a lot of time to record, save, and keep data.

While I enter data today I will also be looking at different things and all the pressure traces, some I may print out to show you here some of the result we got, and why we might like one load over another. This-That the other sort of thing.

Like Sam said, this is not over or by any stretch completed. There is a good bit more to do just on the chamber pressures, factory ammo, and what have you. Not to even mention barrel strains.

Sometime this week I will be attaching the barrel strain gage to Sams rifle, off course after I whack about 4-6 inches off the end, it's way too long with those 24 inch barrels you know. I just can't lay my hands on that old rusty hacksaw of mine--- Now what did I do with that thing? Hmmmmm?

Michael

Sam, who are you going to get to help you when you get to the 577 testing. Can't see much shooting of that cannon by a guy that wears a thong :-)