Guys:

We ran into a problem while we were loading .577 ammo for the Cooley trip, and I'd like to know if you think our assumptions on a solution is sound.

Equipment:

RCBS Ammomaster
RCBS dies
NEW BeLL Brass - .577 NE 3"

Scenario:

In preparing for the Cooley hunt, while visiting my father's in PA this past weekend, we took some time to start forming some of the brass for .577 NE.

The cases were all lubed and we started to form them in the case forming die.

The cases were VERY hard to get into the die. We kept backing the case out and forcing it back in. Each time we backed the case out we rotated it and put it back into the die.

As we got close to getting the whole case into the die, upon extraction the mouth of the case was severly dimpled. (Envision looking at the shape of a heart, without the sharp tail at the bottom.)

Upon further checking, we measured the length of each case and discovered that they were about 13/1000 of an inch too long. Actual reading was 3.013.

I think because the case was too long, and it was formed in the die, the case elongated even more and upon meeting the top of the die, the mouth dimpled.

Does this sound right to you?

Would this be a solution:

Trim each new case to 3.000".

Start the case forming process. Remeasure the case after a few strokes in the die. If in excess of 3.000", trim again.

Upon completion of forming the case, measure and trim to 3.000".

Sound right? Or are there other options?

As I mentioned, this was brand new, never used BeLL Brass.

I'd trim to 2.995 before doing anything else. I'm having other issues with Bell cases for my 450-400, some rims are too thick and need to be filed back to have the action close fully. I sorted cases and am loading the thinner rims. Anybody got a suggestion on a good way to thin the rims from the front, since I don't have a lathe to work with. Bob

577
That should work.

bobc
How much to you ned to thin the rim. I had some Bertram 450/400 3 1/4" brass that I just useda file and an Arkansas stone to thin them down enough, from the back, so they fit.
Just be sure the primers are still below the rim.

577-

Sounds like the remedy. The case being too long would cause it to dimple (but I would have thought the dies would have a little tolerance for length).

Trim a couple and see how they work fit before doing the whole batch. If they work, then you have dies that are spot on.

Also might not be a bad idea as Bob suggested to trim a handful of others a tad shorter (2.998) and see how they shoot. You can cheat the bullet up to get the same OAL.

And when looking at OAL, check with the bullet manufacturers recommendations. I think that GS recommends that you back off on the bullet touching the lands.

Brass is a lot like powder in that they vary from lot to lot. And even variations in the same lot. If you want to get crazy, after you trim weigh each piece and check out the variation. And if you want to get REALLY crazy, measure the case walls.

The more uniform you can make everything, the more consistent your shots. We don't need to go "bench rest crazy" with DR's, but the more uniform the better. My big thing is the primer pocket. I have tossed more new brass with primer pocket issues (mostly holes off center) than I can to remember. Eyeball the hole and use a pocket uniformer.

Signed, a "recovering accuracy freak".

Tony, I'm going to rig up a pair of sapphire nail files to touch the rims on both sides and trim from the back (bullet side, not primer side) and see if I can get a uniform rim, without high and low spots. The rims at .065 to .066 wont let the action close fully. I have some that vary (same rim) .060 to .065) that I can index to close fully, but I'd hate to have to be twirling cases to reload while something mean was staring me down! I've done a few and when I take them to .062 max they'll close all the time. Bob

Jim et al:

Thank you for your thoughts and recommendations. Going to see about getting a case trimmer for the .577 NE 3" now.

Good thing is that we have 40 rounds of .577 bullets from Superior for Cooley

On the 577s trim back to 2.990 then
form, as they will stretch when fired anyway.
If they come out on the 3.000 inch or slightly shorter, few firingd and they will need trim.
ON cases & thick rims if they were here
I could put them om my case lathe/spinner
and set thickness for uniform head space.
Takes longer to put case in than to remove
excess thickness.And will have uniform thickness all way around..Ed.

577 Nirto Express
you know by Texas Law you are responsible for any damage your rifle inflicts on fellow shooters.

So you might want to think about providing a 27 year old skinny, pretty, "masage therapist" for those of us who shoot your 577.

If a Yankee hurts a Texan it is a CRIME.
Puinishment is SEVERE.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
So you might want to think about providing a 27 year old skinny, pretty, "masage therapist" for those of us who shoot your 577.

That will bring the hog hunting to a screaching halt.

Might have to show up there myself to get hurt... er shoot that twice bore cannon.

Hog Killer

quote:

If a Yankee hurts a Texan it is a CRIME.

I'm from Virginia. When was that ever Yankee Country?

I'll see what I can do about the blonde.

Want one with big boobs?

577,
you have RCBS dies, right? those are cut for bertram brass. Call RCBS and ask them to replace your dies with the proper OLD style ones.

The bertram brass is softer, thinner, and has more case capacity due to thickness and perhaps even casehead construction, as to basically be a different case internally.

you can prove it for your, fire one of each and measure the water capacity.

the .013 longer is DIRECTLY from the bell (now jamison) brass being thicker in the shoulder and neck... about .0065 thicker per side.

if you hard bertram brass, it would form perfectly.

if you had the other side of this combo, dies for bell and bertram brass, they would form easy, and the bullets would call into the case, as the neck diameter (OD) of the cases have to be the same in the chamber.

RCBS knows EXACTLY what the problem is.

Butch,
this is exactly the "other side" that we had with Richard's 577, where he had the rcbs dies cut for bell, and bertram brass.

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
577 Nirto Express
you know by Texas Law you are responsible for any damage your rifle inflicts on fellow shooters.

oh no ... for sale, 550 express PARTS...

quote:

So you might want to think about providing a 27 year old skinny, pretty, "masage therapist" for those of us who shoot your 577.

make mine early 30's, please.. redheaded

quote:

If a Yankee hurts a Texan it is a CRIME.
Puinishment is SEVERE.

quote:

I'm from Virginia. When was that ever Yankee Country?

That's north of huntsville, aint it?

LOL
jeffe

Jeffe:

Got it. Thanks. Will heed your advice and consult with RCBS directly.

Virginia eh... Well your covered.
Still watch out for the ARBOR SOCIETY.