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Well I made it out to the range today to break in the new toy. It was cold as hell so I thought the range would be empty...Wrong! The place was packed and the only bench open was next to a guy shooting a 50BMG...imagine that! On the Left side of me was a group of young men shooting an AR15 and several semi-auto hand guns….lots of brass flying my direction! Anyhow despite all the noise and flying brass in the air, I had a great range session and am very pleased at how the little Chapuis performed. The gun is scoped with a Leupold 1.5x5 in Pivot mounts. Fit and finish is great and balance is perfect. My only complaint is the rear trigger pull. It must be 8 lbs. The front is ok..I estimate it about 4 lbs. Speaking to a friend who was also in the group buy reveals the same issue on his rifle. Other than that the rifle is exactly what I expected. Below are the load data and chronograph readings for each of the loads. It is listed in the order that the rifle was fired. A few comments: All the 286g bullets are Nosler Partitions. I did shoot one group with 270g Speer bullets. Immediately I was surprised to see the velocities on the IMR 4831 64g load. Most of the data I have seen lists this load at around 2200fps. This can of powder was dated 1999 and has been on my bench for several years. Groups were great with same barrel groups in clusters, about 1†apart. The IMR 4831 65g data is with a new lot of powder. I was amazed to see the velocity go down 100pfs despite adding a grain of powder. Thinking I made a mistake in my loading I disassembled the ammo when I returned home and weighed the powder charge again. No discrepancies were found. Chapuis UGEX 9.3x74R RWS Brass Fed 215 Primer 2/9/2007 Range 50 YDS Temp 32 IMR 4831 64g 286 NP 2326 2338 2365 2363 2376 2367 2344 2337 2382 2361 2350 2333 2379 2355 Ave 7 year old Powder…1.5" Group 65g 286 NP 2277 2225 2218 2273 2248 Ave New Lot of Powder…Groups 2.5" IMR 4064 57g 286 NP 2386 2399 2396 2392 2393 Ave 2" Group 58g 286 NP 2418 2429 2407 2414 2417 Ave Crossed….poor group IMR 4064 58g 270 Speer 2453 2446 2455 2476 2458 Ave Groups less than 1" Shoot about 1.5" Higher than 286 NP So what are my findings. First….My gun appears to like the 286g bullets at 2350 fps. Above or below this velocity groups opened up. I hope to duplicate this again with the new lot of 4831…or reduce the 4064 charge to 56 g and hope to get the desired result. I now believe the Norma regulation ammo ballistics are accurate with their load having a velocity of 2350 fps with the 286 Oryx bullet. The only load that crossed was the 286 g load @ 2415 fps. The one group of 270 g Speer bullets that I fired shot extremely well at 2450 pfs….the 4 shot group is in one cluster just under an inch in size. It did group about 1.5†above the 286 g impact points. This load may be a sleeper and I plan on doing some more work with it . I hope to get out again tomorrow and do some additional shooting. The 9.3 is a lot friendlier on the shoulder than my 470! ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | ||
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ROSCOE, congratulations,after the recent problems posted on this forum with the Chapuis 9.3,it is refreshing to read your results  | |||
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Bal, Thanks for your help...I believe it was your Chapuis that I shot in TX correct? ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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Congratulations, on you new Chapuis, and your good luck in your initial loads working so well!  Now you've found a load for winter, this needs to take place again when the temprature reaches 95 Degs, starting with a backed off load!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Mac, What is your thought on the discrepancy between lot of powders? That one is really giving me the fits. I noticed the same discrepancy in loading manuals too. Speer data on the 270g bullet has lower velocity for the same load that Nosier has in their manual despite the nosler bullet being 16g heavier! ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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TOMO577 DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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i don't know what happened. i was trying to send congratulations on your success. they make the trigger pull heavier on the rear trigger so newbies to double rifles won't accidentally set them off during recoil. ( and think the rifle is doubling ) when you are comfortable shooting it have a competent gunsmith lighten up the trigger pull for you. TOMO577 DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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ROSCOE, yes it was mine that you shot! enjoy your rifle my friend! | |||
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WTG Roscoe! And I am in the same boat! I blame Bal for letting me shoot his Chapuis in August! Do you think I should "Bill" him for part of the cost?  Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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ROSCOE, the difference between loading manuals has to do with different test guns, more than anything! Most all manuals don't agree with same powders, and bullets from the same chamberings. NOW! The powders being different is not uncomon either! I have about 1 pound left from a keg of surplus 4831 powder from 30 yrs ago, and it is considerably hotter that either the new IMR or H 4831s, both long cut, and SC versions. Usually when I buy powder, I try to buy at least 5 lbs of the same lot No. 10 pounds, if the powder is for one of the large Nitro cases, that burns a lot of powder! This way I get a long run without haveing the experiment for a proper load evey time I buy a pound of powder! Your best regulating load,now in cold weather, should be lowered a couple grains when the weather gets in the 95 to 100 degree area, and worked back up to a summer load for your BRAND NEW DOUBLE! Again, congratulations on your new membership to DRSS, with your new double rifle! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Please, don't nobody let me shoot their 450/400 or their 450#2 next time we meet,please please  I had a Chapuis 9.3 & after camp cooley,I have a 9.3 & a 470! Paul let me shoot his 577  now I got real problems  | |||
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Roscoe, Sounds like you have a keeper! Were you able to shoot the rifle without the scope? Results? I wonder how RL 19 or 22 would perform with the Noslers? My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Roscoe, Glad to see your success. You zeroed in on the formula quickly. I chronographed the Norma 285 gr Oryx ammo today at about 25 degrees F and found 2375, 2401 and 2383 fps for an average of 2386 fps (first shot didn't register). At 50 yds with scope in place the Norma ammo crossed. I did not try it at 100 yds. 65 gr of H4831 behind a 286gr Nosler partition gave me around 2215 fps, did not cross and produced a 1.5 inch 4-shot group at 50 yards. At 100 yards that same load shot apart a bit and produced a group of around 4 inches. However, the 6 pound front and 8 pound rear trigger pulls may have something to do with the group size. In any event, I think I can move up in velocity and bring everything in sinc at 100 yards. Need to try the Norma stuff at 100 yards also. Let us know how your rifle shoots at 100 yards. | |||
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Congratulations on your new rifle and I am glad it is shooting great. My comment on the differences in powder burning rates between lots. This is a very common problem. You should always start as if you had never loaded with a powder till you can test it. I would drop back to a starting load and work up again. Bill Member DSC,DRSS,NRA,TSRA A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. -Mark Twain There ought to be one day - just one – when there is open season on Congressmen. ~Will Rogers~ | |||
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Well today we had a heat wave(It made it to 38) so I had to get out and experiment again. Today I shot 66g IMR 4064 to get 2350 fps on the button. Loads crossed at 50yds. I then tried 58 g RL-15 for a average Velocity of 2355 and got decent groups but they still cross. I then fired the last 6 rounds of the old lot of IMR 4831 (64g 2355 fps) and the groups came together just as yesterday with no crossing. Net step will be to try and get a load with the new lot of 4831 up up to 2350 and try see if that works. I have some Woodleigh softs on order and will give them a try and see if the results are any better. If 4831 is the powder of choice I will be buying a 5 lb can! Ross keep me posted on your results...I have no doubt you will have a load worked out soon. Randy I have yet to try any of the other RL powders or shoot the rifle without the scope. I really hoped the RL-15 would work. It is my favorite powder and I always have a lot on hand. ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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Roscoe: Great to hear that your gun came in. I think you'll be happy with. I'm looking forward to shooting it. Mac is absolutely right. What you're seeing there is normal. Of course, no two guns are the same but, the lot to lot consistency of the density of cannister grade powders....ain't very consistent. That's why the manuals advise reducing 10% and working back up when a component is changed, including lots of the same powder. In .400/.360 Purdey (9.3X74R case slightly shortened and 300 grain 9.3 bullets), I've had otherwise identical loads - same bullet, case, primer - but with the same charge of two different lots of IMR 4350, make a difference of 200 fps when fired back to back in the same range session. Regulation went from perfect to 4" wide. With the old lot, I was at 51.5 grains for standard velocity and perfect regulation, but had to go to 56.3 grains with the new lot to get the same velocity and regulation. You've gotta work back up over the chrono when you change lots. And yeah, buy a large cannister, or several cans of the same lot. ------------------------------------------------ "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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Mark, Bring your file to the next shoot....that rear trigger pull has got to be fixed! Thanks for the feedback on loads. I just get a little concerned when seeing that large of a decline in velocity between lots of powder. To be honest I though I had messed something up. ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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Roscoe, Great report so far. Keep the details coming. A few of us are drooling till our rifles are built. As far as you other old timers who reported about velocity being so important to get your doubles to shoot well, my hat is off to all of you for helping us speed up the learning curve. I had no idea it was such a critical factor. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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You truely are totally uninformed OR an idiot. The reason the rear trigger is heavier is that for SAFETY the sears have exactly the same engagement, and the rear trigger has a shorter lever to operate this engagement should one attempt to make the rear trigger lighter, that REQUIRES reducing the engagement of the rear sear, REDUCING the safety of the firearm. even bubba knows this much tommyboy jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Considering the written communitcation skills displayed, who is the Idiot? I doubt that you would speak to someone face to face as you have started this post, at least not more than once.  Jim "Bwana Umfundi" NRA | |||
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Jim, I have yet to post a statement on AR that I would not say to a man's face, regardless of his size or what caliber he has in his hand. Now, so the mode is clear, TOM was asked which part he was deficent in. I allowed him a semi-graceful path for stepping out of a discussion that he was in OVER his head. In fact, I sat on this reply for 4 days. Tom is posting spurious information, that he know little about and less about the mechanics of, and has a track record of taking pot shots at me, on threads that I am not involved with, days after the thread dies down, and/or starting  threads to "cross words with his fans" (so to speak)You might give your advice to tommyboy. Calling a man "cheap" "liar" and "idiot" are HIS words, sir, turned back to him as a plate of crow and, yeah, I am at times this grumpy in person. jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Sorry to offend your sensibilities. Maybe you should hit the ignore button for my posts. I have done so for some myself. Packy | |||
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Guys, I am not questioning what is said, but I find many posts written in such a manner as to antagonize or belittle another member. I thought the purpose of AR was the exchange of information, something better done without personal attacks. Jim "Bwana Umfundi" NRA | |||
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Jim, tom acts like an internet bully, constantly poking the sleeping dog then wanting to act like "but i didn't do anything"... sorry if my reply came over rough, but he finally woke the dog up. jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Jim, have a look at the pist price of merkels thread... you'll see the same behavoir there from ole tommy boy. and, of course, he doesn't have the stones, knowledge, or experience to discuss WHY the rear trigger is heavier than the front. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Roscoe, Congrats on the new double! Hope to see you and the double in June! Doc52 B. Searcy & Co .577 NE Double Rifle Shooters Society "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote!" Benjamin Franklin 1759 | |||
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Doc...I will see you there! ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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