Well I'm up and running, reloading for the 470 Nitro Express. First box is Woodleigh SP Hoffman load (was he the only guy to ever use this charge?), +/- 110 gr H4831SC. What variation should I expect when loading Woodleigh solids over this charge? Only slightly higher pressure/velocity? Does anyone adjust the charge for conventional solids? Even the Short Cut compresses the load pretty good, it seems, and the longer solid more so.

I would not start with 110gr in a rifle that you've not worked up loads in before.

Back down to 102 and get out the chronograph.

I don't remember 110 gr of 4831 being a compressed load. You had better check your scale.

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:
I would not start with 110gr in a rifle that you've not worked up loads in before.

Back down to 102 and get out the chronograph.

It's my understanding that this is duplicating factory specs. My first goal was to load and shoot some factory spec.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I don't remember 110 gr of 4831 being a compressed load. You had better check your scale.

I've checked my scale many times since getting it. It's a new Lyman 1000. Possibly I'm not using the proper term. The finished load has no airspace and no movement of the powder charge. Compressed may be incorrect, for this load. That's why I was asking about the FMJ load. Again, it's H4831SC.

Very sorry, this load does have the slightest airspace, with the case nearly full. My memory from late last night did not serve me well.

This H4831SC load of 110gr under a Woodleigh SP has given consistent results, in the factory range, from numerous modern guns that RIP here has run it thru. So Chris we'll see how the Heym likes it! Really, I think this load is well enough established to not cause concern. I mean I've now shot the Norma red box 470 and that is stated as 2165 fps, and it feels it! So if I were choosing Norma ammo for any modern 470 then it should still perform well even though it's top speed. It was very accurate out of a Chapuis.

quote:

Originally posted by Showbart:

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:
I would not start with 110gr in a rifle that you've not worked up loads in before.

Back down to 102 and get out the chronograph.

It's my understanding that this is duplicating factory specs. My first goal was to load and shoot some factory spec.

Too many variables in the equation to say with any certainty. Your rifle, your lot of powder, brass, primers, etc... are all unique. Start low and work up.

Now I'm confused as to what it is you are after here.

110 grs. will be about factory loads but the velocity you get depends upon the temp., the bullet brand and type, your rifle, etc.


You still need a chronograph. Without it you are just chasing your tail.

I get excellent accuracy and performance with Norma cases, 87.5 grains of RL15, Federal 215M primers, a Kynoch foam wad and 500 grain North Fork FPS. That is probably exactly what I will take to Zim in June. At twenty yards, six shots out of the Chapuis will go into an inch circle.

Even with only 85 grs. in my Krieghoff the 500 gr. NF FPS were still going near 2200 fps.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
At twenty yards, six shots out of the Chapuis will go into an inch circle.

Is that while running? Forward or backwards?

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Now I'm confused as to what it is you are after here.

110 grs. will be about factory loads but the velocity you get depends upon the temp., the bullet brand and type, your rifle, etc.


You still need a chronograph. Without it you are just chasing your tail.

Just making ammo, not configuring a load(s). Just need range ammo. Woodleigh SPs, Jamison brass, Heym 88B, cool weather in the 50s, maybe 1000-1500 feet. I never thought I'd be leaning towards an overload, this should still be well within correct pressure range. Again, this load has been chrono'd at factory velocities consistently from modern rifles by members here. This is the "George Hoffman Memorial Load" that has been shared by members here with their results posted, including general conditions. I didn't think that if I were duplicating a load known to produce factory specs from a number of modern rifles that I would have to work up to it. RIP, who got great results in his Merkel said maybe start at 109 and check it. But at 110 or 109 with solids it's still been very low pressure. All this said guys buy different brands of factory ammo and run it thru different rifles in a variety of conditions.

So going back over all this info on this load here on AR I found the answer to my question which is reduce it by one grain for solids. My other question corrected, about any compression, was my mistake.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Is that while running? Forward or backwards?

I was trying to be modest, but if you must know it is running -- forward, always into the action, never away.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
At twenty yards, six shots out of the Chapuis will go into an inch circle.

I've seen Mike shoot.. he can do it!

Bart,
You are yanking us around a bit. First it is compressed and then it is not?

I said 108 grains would be a good place to start, so you yanked that one a wee bit.

Maybe you better start at 102 like Chris said and watch things more carefully, like chronograph velocity and Left-Right divergence-convergence as you go up.

The George Hoffman Memorial Load is just any load for the 470 NE that uses H4831 or H4831SC. The number of grains required charge is dependent on the brass, bullet, primer, rifle, powder lot, etc.

It may shoot parallel to infinity, but on a hot day they all go into one hole.

A picture is worth a thousand words :

No yank intended. Norma published loads for the 470 w/ MRP or MRP2 to get factory spec of 2165 and I would've loaded exactly that had either of those powders been at my disposal but they weren't, so I used H4831. It's done, it'll shoot and I'm fine with it. Over and out.

108 to 110 grains of H4831 or H4831SC is going to be around 35,000 psi with just about any components and rifle, with 500-grain bullet.

It would be hard to get into pressure trouble with H4831SC.

Question is will you be diverged, parallel to infinity, or crossed?

You are going to miss the pleasures of watching it go from high-and-spread to down-and-dirty if you go to the range with one powder charge.

This is no mere 20 yards, but a full 50 meters, with 109 grains of H4831SC. 4 shots into less than an inch, 0.972", probably would have been parallel to infinity if not for my poor shooting with the Merkel.

So, since MRP and 4831sc have similar burn rates, you used the MRP data yielding 2165 fps substituting 4831sc for MRP?

My Norma manual says 106.0 grains of MRP is the maximum and the minimum charge to use.
Supposed to give 2011 fps with a Woodleigh 500-grain "RNSN."
105.7 grains of MRP is supposed to be the Max/min charge for the Woodleigh 500-grain FMJ, velocity = 2077 fps.
These for 26" barrel, er, uh, barrels, of 1:21" twist.
Norma case.
Winchester WLRM primer.

The philosophy: to duplicate ballistics and barrel time of "original loads." One size fits all.

However Norma shows respective soft and solid loads (components otherwise as above) also with these powders, the solitary Max/min loads:

Norma 203-B
soft: 88.0 gr, 2087 fps
FMJ: 87.7 gr, 2182 fps ... almost 100 fps difference ...

Norma MRP-2:
soft: 128.0 gr, 2201 fps
FMJ: 123.0 gr, 2152 fps ... 5 grains difference here ...

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
A picture is worth a thousand words :

Damn, I have been looking for a 0.474" paper punch. How much was the 60 ft. extension handle option?

They are cheap . . . check them out at Harbor Freight . . . and they work great.

That Jines guy can shoot! Saw him run the table down at ol' Monty's shooting school, finishing by busting a balloon off a line at about 30 yards.

Let's see if he can do that over the shoulder backwards with a mirror. I'm sure Mark Sullivan would let you borrow his mirror...