Other than Dacon filler from a crafts store and pre-cut plugs, what else is safe to use as a filler in large cases with RL-15 and similar powders? Specifically, if I'm shopping at Home Depot, Lowes, Ace HW, etc. and find foam sheets or heavy cardboard, how do I know if they will melt or damage my bores?

If calibers matter, I'm looking at 375H&H, 9.x74R, 450/400NE and, 470NE. THANKS!

I just brought up filler test in DRBOF thread. Foam Backer rod which you can get from home supply stores seems to be the best. We have since found that no filler and a compressed charge is always better. Use a powder that fills the case to compression if possible.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
DRBOF

What does that stand for (a little weak on the jargon/abbreviations)? THANKS

DRBOF:



http://forums.accuratereloadin...0101804/m/1201069141

Double Rifle Bullet of the Future.

Kynoch foam wads from Trader Keith.

I've used pre-cut foam rod, backer rod, Kapok, cotton. Stay away from cream o wheat it is too heavy and mixes with powder.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
I've used pre-cut foam rod, backer rod, Kapok, cotton. Stay away from cream o wheat it is too heavy and mixes with powder.
Cal

But the Cream of Wheat/gunpowder mix will help your ageing digestive system Cal.

I've also used torn up and crumpled photos of Mike Brooks and Shootaway. They get along together so well in the close confines of a .600 nitro express case.
See you on the 31st, you PITA.
Cal

I followed the advice here and used 3/8 backer rod from Lowe's in my 9.3x74. Shot it yesterday w/ Todd's load.the combo worked great.

I have mine made by Houston Plastics. I bought a die. Any low density foam cut to proper length will work. I've even cut them with a bridge punch and hammer. Easier to order the Kynoch plugs

15 feet of filler rod, as is used in the construction industry for sealing around windows, comes in 3/8th and 5/8ths for about three or four dollars. Butch recommends it for loading big doubles.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
15 feet of filler rod, as is used in the construction industry for sealing around windows, comes in 3/8th and 5/8ths for about three or four dollars. Butch recommends it for loading big doubles.

I was at Ace the other day and they have backer rod in various sizes up to 1" in diameter.
I knew I should have bought that 8bore Holland at the CO. collector show...

I have used Dacron Polyester and 4 different densities of foam. Three of them I cut out by hand with a sharpened [with a chamfer tool] 50 BMG case.
The last foam I used was backer rod. It is the easiest to use, as you just need to cut it to length with a sharp knife. Just be sure you buy it in a large enough diameter to form a tight seal agains the inside of the cartridge case.

Also make sure the foam is COMPRESSED between the bullet and the powder.

Same for the Dacron, any filler must be COMPRESSED.

I have shot all these fillers side by side with the same load and I cannot detect any difference in point of impact or pressure between them...

Double Rifle filler material?

H-4350
H-4831

JM

jerry

With ANY powder I am aware of you still must use filler in the 450 No2 and the 475 No2, due to the large volume of those cases.

450no2 is correct. I just loaded some .475 no2 this morning and a bit of dacron is needed.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
I just brought up filler test in DRBOF thread. Foam Backer rod which you can get from home supply stores seems to be the best. We have since found that no filler and a compressed charge is always better. Use a powder that fills the case to compression if possible.

I agree with Sam. Backer rod is an excellent filler and my choice if/when required. If just a "bit", I agree with Cal on the Dacron filler Good luck.

A compressed charge is not always the answer, it is not always possible.

Some doubles just shoot a LOT better with RL 15.
Some shoot better with IMR 4831.
Both of my British doubles shoot very good with both powders.

Also RL 15 has a LOT lower recoil.

In my 450 No2 when I shoot IMR 4831, the barrrels get extremely hot at the front of the foreend.

For full power loads I much prefer RL 15 to any other powder I have used.

I have noticed no difference in performance between Dacron and 4 different kinds/densities of foam fillers, including store bought backer rod.

quote:

I have noticed no difference in performance between Dacron and 4 different kinds/densities of foam fillers, including store bought backer rod.

Tony, not picking on you by any means at all, just that the statement is appropriate for my use...... We did not notice any increased recoil or accuracy issues or anything else other than extra pressures and added velocities..... No sticky cases, or excessive signs of pressures..... But the pressure equipment took notice.


Sam and I did quite a bit of test work here for you double rifle guys. I have no bone, I don't care what you use for a filler, and I am not in the filler business and have no filler to sell you. You are not likely to see any difference or feel any difference in your loads with various fillers! Only when you hook up pressure equipment that is sensitive enough to tell the difference will you see it. You will not see a difference in accuracy, you might see a difference in velocity, depending on the powder and cartridge, in most modern doubles you are not even going to get sticky cases or outward signs of excessive pressures, unless you really get up in pressure........

We did one test with the 470 Nitro with different fillers, some showed excessive pressure differences with different fillers, and terrible inconsistencies.......... With other cartridges and powders, who knows, we tested what you see, others might be the same or might be different, I can't say unless tested. What I can say is if this is any indication of things to come, then its your rifle, do as you please. If you rather continue to use some of the fillers that caused this sort of results, based on the fact, "This is what I always Used and never had a problem" then by all means continue to do so...... Like I said, I am not trying to sell you any filler material, I personally do not care, only trying to assist and help fellow shooters.......... If you rather ignore this, or pretend it does not exist, fine with me too............

I'm here to tell you guys Michael's comments are spot on, at least in my experience. When i first acquired my VC in 450NE virtually EVERYONE told me RL-15 was THE powder to use but a filler was needed. I tried two, the foam stuff from the Home Improvement stores as well as the dacron. In both instances they produced erractic HIGH pressure velocities and inconsistent accuracy. They I switched to H-4831 and all these issues went away.

Well, all I can say is than in my 450 No2, and in my 450/400 3 1/4" doubles, the cases and primers show lower pressures with RL 15 vs IMR 4831.

Also remember with a double rifle, and a break open single shot, they are more sensitive to back thrust pressure, than radial barrel pressure, vs. most olther rifle actions.

Michael that's great data, thank you.

I haven't been able to buy any of the Reloader powders to try them.

cheers Chris

The look of primers is useless in a double rifle. If you get pressures that show differences in primers you are just guessing. The only reason RL-15 with a filler might be lower pressure than 4831 without is because the compressed charge of 4831 is getting better ignition. Michael and I showed this when we compressed RL-15 with cards wads and brought velocities up quite a bit and pressures were still good. Powder has to burn to work.

Tony, yes of course, I was referring to the cartridges the OP listed in his lineup, and my own semi limited experience with loading my 303 British, 500 and 577 Nitros. <G>

JM

I haven't got to load or seen loaded the x-tra long Nitro rounds, but would surely be very honored to get to fire 'em sometime.

JM

I got the best result from my 450 x 3 1/4" with cork wads and light pressure on the powder.

srose

When I used IMR 4831 in my 450 No2 I would get a little bit of primer expansion into one of the firing pin holes, this does not happen with RL 15.

So yes, primers can tell you something about your loads in a double rifle.

And remember in the 450 No2, I have to use a filler with ALL powders.

NE 450 No2,

I've had primers flow into firing pin holes with black powder loads so I still say if you are using the look of primers to tell pressure in a double its useless. Like you said back thrust is what tells you more and the way the cases come out of chambers after firing is a much better judge of pressure. A strain gage to me is the best way to see how your loads are operating. I've learned so much more using strain gages than any other indicator of pressure. Dacron was a real eye opener. Yes I know lots have used it me included but I won't use it anymore because of what the strain gage showed.

Sam

This is what I use.

I used to use a tuft of Dacron as put forth in Ross Seyfried, "Reloading the Nitro Express".
I use RL-15/Norma 203B in my vintage British Double Rifle for two reasons. Pressure curve and Burn Rate close to Cordite.

As stated in the article RL-15/Norma203B is a pressure sensitive powder. When held against the primer it provides some of the most consistent velocities I have ever seen.

Perceived or felt recoil is less with RL-15/Norma 203B than say, 4831.

I will be glad to share the "Reloading the Nitro Express" article with anyone who requests it. Just email me at rkmojo@aol.com

Below isa link to a useful tool to punch the foam:
http://www.harborfreight.com/h...-punch-set-3838.html

Option C: Jute wads. I spent a big part of the day calling fabric stopre looking for wool felt, as the British used. No luck over 1/8th inch.

Finally called an upholstery shop and they use Jute. It replaced wool in many of the shops. Looks/Feels like felt, and is slightly compressable. Colin made me a set of reloading tools for my 10-bore Paradox Rifle.

160gr of 2f, a card wad, a dry jute wad, and two soaked in grease from the spring bear hunt. Seat the round ball, and crimp with the provided tool. Recoil is stout, but considering it is just 100fps faster than the 2oz buckshot load, reasonable.

Rich

Jute, $12 a square yard at the upholstery shop...

foam backer rod

srose is spot on

all you need fast works

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Option C: Jute wads. I spent a big part of the day calling fabric stopre looking for wool felt, as the British used. No luck over 1/8th inch.

Finally called an upholstery shop and they use Jute. It replaced wool in many of the shops. Looks/Feels like felt, and is slightly compressable. Colin made me a set of reloading tools for my 10-bore Paradox Rifle.

160gr of 2f, a card wad, a dry jute wad, and two soaked in grease from the spring bear hunt. Seat the round ball, and crimp with the provided tool. Recoil is stout, but considering it is just 100fps faster than the 2oz buckshot load, reasonable.

Rich

Jute, $12 a square yard at the upholstery shop...

Rich:
I get 1/2" felt at both carpet stores (padding) or auto shops (sound deadening and insulation under auto carpet). About 3-4$ per yard and many times they just give it away. One yard gets me through a summer of shooting. I use a 5/8" punch for the .600 and 7/8" for the 8-bore and 1" for the 4-bore.
Cheers,
Cal

McMaster-Carr online, you can buy real wool felt in just about any thickness you want.

HTH

Colin

A guy I met uses dryer lint for a filler. He must own a laundromat. Dave

Does backer-rod work in bottleneck cases? I am just about ready to work up my first trial loads for the .577/500 no.2. Would I need to compress a 5/8 backer-rod, or will the 1/2" be okay?

A "Tuft" of poly-fill the material they make pillows with works great. As long as you fill the case enough, it will hold the powder back. A bit more time consuming, but simple and works great!
Did I mention cheap, too?

quote:

Foam Backer rod

I just spent a weekend in Colorado with a friend dialing in a load for my Heym 577NE as we get ready for a buffalo hunt in Australia. We used Foam Backer rod as filler and I could not have been more impressed with the results after the dust settled.