Gents:
Anyone out there have experience with 12-bore double rifles? I just acquired one a couple of weeks ago, have ordered brass, a round ball mould, and a bullet sizing die (I already have a 12-bore reloading die and a MEC reloader for shotshells).

If any of you have any suggestions on loading data I would appreciate what you know. I can probably figure it out, but any help from those with experience will greatly assist. The details of the rifle are as follows:

E. Whistler, Strand, London, made late 1870s (about), non rebounding hammers, Jones patent under lever, stalking safeties to be set at the half cock position, 26-inch barrels, four sight leaves for 50-100-150-200 yards, fully rifled with a 1:100 twist, 11 grooves, for a round ball, weight a hefty 11 1/4 pounds, bores are near excellent. She should make a fine shooter. Strong Damascus pattern and full coverage best quality engraving. Steel butt plate. 14 1/2" pull.

It will take some experimenting to get her to shoot as the rifling is for a light round ball but the weight possibly tells of a heavy powder charge. We'll see!
Enjoy, gentlemen.
Cal

Cal,
Have you talked to Omnivorous Bob?
This is right up his alley!

Stunning. Look forward to the results!

I am envious. Maybe someday...

So jealous - awesome find!

Looks like a nice one Cal. Whistler made some good guns.

Cal,

Ross Seyfried did an article in the November 2003 (#210) issue of Rifle Magazine. He discuses loading round balls for both a SXS and single shot 12 bore rifles. If you're coming through Wasilla in the next week I can make a copy for you.

Mart

quote:

Originally posted by mart:
Cal,

Ross Seyfried did an article in the November 2003 (#210) issue of Rifle Magazine. He discuses loading round balls for both a SXS and single shot 12 bore rifles. If you're coming through Wasilla in the next week I can make a copy for you.

Mart

Thanks, Mart.
I will be in town next week. PM me your number and I'll ring you when I know my exact schedule.
Thanks,
Cal

Glorious!

Cal,

I don't know how much help this will be but it might be a starting point anyways.

I am using Magtech brass, Federal 215 primers wiht 90grains of FFg Goex Black Powder. One 1/2" thick dry wool felt wad and one 1/2" thick veg lubed wool felt wad, compressed to 35 pounds and a .722" round ball cast from Wheel Weights and a slight crimp on the rim to hold everything tight to the round ball. This is from 24" rifled barrels.

Each barrel separately shoots about 1.5" groups at 50 yards and the two groups together are about 3" at 50 yards.

Hope this helps,

Colin

Colin:
Exactly what I'm looking for. Thank you.
Cal

How Beautiful.....

Congratulations, a hammer under-lever! Proper rifle.

Dutch

Nice, Cal. That's one of the best half-Paradox's I've seen.

Wow! That is classic craftsmanship.

Thanks, gents, for the comments. I've received 100 rounds of 2.5" plastic hulls and two boxes of 12 bore brass cases from Cabelas and a bullet sizer is on order as is a round ball mould. Tomorrow I will shoot an undersize Lee Precision 12-gauge 1 ounce slug in a wad and the plastic hulls. I don't expect accuracy to brag on but it will be fun shooting 3-4-5 drams of FFFg.
Cheers,
Cal

Cal,
Are the chambers cut for paper or brass cases? For the same bore diameter the paper cases will have a larger diameter chamber due to the greater thickness of the case material. If you try to use a brass case that fits the chamber the ball will be loose in the case, or if the ball fits the case the loaded round will be small for the chamber. In some situations the bore may be smaller for a 12 Ga paper case than for a 12 Ga brass case. A buddy years ago had a WR bar in wood 12 Ga, chambered for paper cases, we used plastic cases but had to turn a mould, bore diameter was .740 if I recall.
Best

quote:

Originally posted by 50 Calshtr:
Cal,
Are the chambers cut for paper or brass cases? For the same bore diameter the paper cases will have a larger diameter chamber due to the greater thickness of the case material. If you try to use a brass case that fits the chamber the ball will be loose in the case, or if the ball fits the case the loaded round will be small for the chamber. In some situations the bore may be smaller for a 12 Ga paper case than for a 12 Ga brass case. A buddy years ago had a WR bar in wood 12 Ga, chambered for paper cases, we used plastic cases but had to turn a mould, bore diameter was .740 if I recall.
Best

It is too close to call--either thin brass or rather thin paper. I have taken all dimensions and have a case sizing die for the brass cases and will experiment to get what is correct. I've done the brass vs. paper cases on a number of my 8-bores and 4-bores. This is the first run at something this small. It will be fun. Thanks for your comments.
Cal

Cal that is a beautiful firearm.

quote:

This is the first run at something this small. It will be fun.
Cal

Only Cal could have said that without anybody even noticing...

Oh, it was noticed!

Cal I remember an article on loading for a 12 bore where thy used a bullet/slug shaped like an hour glass.
Bill

Cal

Any progress ?

Nitro

I bet you have already looked at this but on page 145 of Graeme Wright's book he talks about paradox guns. Hope you can find something useful.
Bill

Nitro and Bill:
I'm having fabulous luck with the new .500 bpe Holland Royal. However, the 12 is pretty lame, to say the least. Of course, I know the problem. I'm shooting a 450-grain undersize Lee Precision slug in a plastic shot cup. The black powder load with FFFg, 5 drams, is pretty close to correct, but I need a 700 grain ball. I've been calling NEI Handtools for a week but no answer. Yes, Graeme's book is a treasure of information. When the ball and sizer get here I'm sure I will get acceptable accuracy with both black powder and Blue Dot.
Cheers,
Cal

Doesn't Omni Bob in Eagle River have those molds already?

I emailed, Bob as a 10-bore.
Cal

Gents:
I've been calling NEI for 8 days now and no reply--only an answering machine.
Any of you gents have a .750 ball mould you'd be willing to sell me? Can pay in US or Zim dollars--your choice.
cal

Hi Cal, get your RB mould from Jeff Tanner in the UK, fast service, great price, like I had my moulds made & shipped in a week, cost was UK $25 pounds & $10 pound postage to Australia at the time, I had 2 made 12Bore & 8Bore, at that price get more than one !

Very nice rifle by the way !

This is his email jeff.ballmoulds@talktalk.net;

quote:

Originally posted by Sarg:
Hi Cal, get your RB mould from Jeff Tanner in the UK, fast service, great price, like I had my moulds made & shipped in a week, cost was UK $25 pounds & $10 pound postage to Australia at the time, I had 2 made 12Bore & 8Bore, at that price get more than one !

Very nice rifle by the way !

This way his email jeff.ballmoulds@talktalk.net;

Thanks and I will email just now.
Cal

Cal, Accurate Molds has several 12 bore bullets listed. Tom has very fast turn around. He made that dandy 2 hole, 2 weight 600 mold for me.
http://www.http://.com/catalog.php?page=13

No RB molds shown though.

Track of the Wolf shows .750 RB's ready tp go.

www.trackofthewolf.com/list/It...x/127/3accuratemolds

Gents:
I ordred a ball mould from Jeff Tanner in the UK, paid by Paypal, and the mould was cut and in the mail within 24 hours.
Cal

Great News!

Well Cal?

Have all items expect the bullet sizer as my balls are a bit too big. CH is making the sizer. The mould arrive from Jeff Tanner in the UK and is excellent quality and casts well. I would recommend him highly. Anyway, it's just a waiting game for the sizer as the ball is too big to send down the tubes as it is (.750").
cheers,
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Have all items expect the bullet sizer as my balls are a bit too big. Cal

Did anyone else notice that he's bragging again?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Have all items expect the bullet sizer as my balls are a bit too big. Cal

Did anyone else notice that he's bragging again?

I would have guessed by now your beautiful Ukrainian wife would have given you a bit of class and culture.
Cal

It's hard to improve on perfection.. (Her words)

Cal,
You may or may not be aware that RCBS make a Cowboy Action Die Set specifically for brass shotshells. I bought one a few years back. They make de-priming, re-sizing, and crimping, much, much easier. You just remove the reducer bushing from your metallic press and this die screws into the larger threads. Actually, I like mine so much that last week I spent a day machining a shell holder, sizer ring, and crimping sleeve for it in 16 gauge as well. Why not, it's been WAAAAY too damned cold outside to do anything else!!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ron vella:
Cal,
You may or may not be aware that RCBS make a Cowboy Action Die Set specifically for brass shotshells. I bought one a few years back. They make de-priming, re-sizing, and crimping, much, much easier. You just remove the reducer bushing from your metallic press and this die screws into the larger threads. Actually, I like mine so much that last week I spent a day machining a shell holder, sizer ring, and crimping sleeve for it in 16 gauge as well. Why not, it's been WAAAAY too
damned cold outside to do anything else!!![/QU

I have the single aluminum die from RCBS. Is this the one?
As to the sizer for the balls CH tells me it will be May until they can begin the order.
cal