I was curious after reading the other thread, wha manufacturers used them in their rifles? Obviously heym, searcy offers them as an option.

I also can’t help but to think of the lessons I learned as a young boy about breaking actions open when crossing streams and fences.

VC offers them as an option also.

Colin;

If it is inappropriate to place this into this post of yours, please indicate so and I will start a new post with it. Kindest Regards;
Steve

I do not own a double rifle with maker installed intercepting sears, so I cannot test to determine if the following issue that could happen during the shooting of dangerous game has been considered by double rifle makers and incorporated into their intercepting sear design and function. So here is the "WHAT IF":

African hunter has aimed his .450 #2 NE double rifle at a charging Cape buffalo and pulls the first trigger as the "buff" is 30 yards away; recoil from this firing of the first barrel of the double rifle with worn chipped surfaces of the primary sear releases the tumbler (hammer)and the intercepting sears stops the tumbler from moving forward and firing the second barrel. African hunter does not know that the tumbler for the second barrel is being held by the intercepting sears and he is going to attempt to pull the second trigger to fire the second barrel at the still charging "buff" that is now 10 yards away.

What is going to happen when African hunter pulls the trigger of the second barrel?

Some of you please test your unloaded double rifles and tell us what happens. See the procedure in last paragraph to test a SLE.

Note:

When I built an intercepting sear system for a SLE double rifle a couple of years ago, I designed and built the intercepting sear and the primary sear where if such a event happened above, very hard pulling of the second trigger (about 9lbs pull) would release the intercepting sear and allow the unfired barrel to fire.

With a SLE double rifle this test is easy to do as you can remove say the right lockplate and with a very small tool reach trough the trigger hole in the buttstock and release the primary trigger sear of the left action lock and the tumbler will move forward (about .020" or so); and you can then pull the left trigger (with rifle unloaded and using snap caps) and determine if the trigger pull will release the left hand tumbler from the intercepting sear.

Thank you for the info.

And please feel free to contribute to any of my threads. You are one of a very few doing this kind of work and I really appreciate the expertise.

quote:

Originally posted by Transvaal:
Colin;

If it is inappropriate to place this into this post of yours, please indicate so and I will start a new post with it. Kindest Regards;
Steve

I do not own a double rifle with maker installed intercepting sears, so I cannot test to determine if the following issue that could happen during the shooting of dangerous game has been considered by double rifle makers and incorporated into their intercepting sear design and function. So here is the "WHAT IF":

African hunter has aimed his .450 #2 NE double rifle at a charging Cape buffalo and pulls the first trigger as the "buff" is 30 yards away; recoil from this firing of the first barrel of the double rifle with worn chipped surfaces of the primary sear releases the tumbler (hammer)and the intercepting sears stops the tumbler from moving forward and firing the second barrel. African hunter does not know that the tumbler for the second barrel is being held by the intercepting sears and he is going to attempt to pull the second trigger to fire the second barrel at the still charging "buff" that is now 10 yards away.

What is going to happen when African hunter pulls the trigger of the second barrel?

Some of you please test your unloaded double rifles and tell us what happens. See the procedure in last paragraph to test a SLE.

Note:

When I built an intercepting sear system for a SLE double rifle a couple of years ago, I designed and built the intercepting sear and the primary sear where if such a event happened above, very hard pulling of the second trigger (about 9lbs pull) would release the intercepting sear and allow the unfired barrel to fire.

With a SLE double rifle this test is easy to do as you can remove say the right lockplate and with a very small tool reach trough the trigger hole in the buttstock and release the primary trigger sear of the left action lock and the tumbler will move forward (about .020" or so); and you can then pull the left trigger (with rifle unloaded and using snap caps) and determine if the trigger pull will release the left hand tumbler from the intercepting sear.

I;m intrigued by your comment. Are you saying that if the intercepting sear is put into use (by an inadvertent firing through recoil), that the rifle becomes 'locked' and unusable? I don;t know exactly how a the interrupting sear system works, so i'm looking to understand. Thanks.

It is my understanding that there are "Interceptors" and "intercepting Sears"
The "Interceptors" will stop the forward progress of the hammer but you will have to open and re-cock the gun to put the gun back into battery. This is evident in many shotguns with "Interceptors".
"Intercepting Sears" which maybe found on Dangerous Game Guns, H&H comes to mind will stop the forward progress of the hammer but, with a second trigger pull (much Harder) will let the hammer continue and hit the striker.

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:
It is my understanding that there are "Interceptors" and "intercepting Sears"
The "Interceptors" will stop the forward progress of the hammer but you will have to open and re-cock the gun to put the gun back into battery. This is evident in many shotguns with "Interceptors".
"Intercepting Sears" which maybe found on Dangerous Game Guns, H&H comes to mind will stop the forward progress of the hammer but, with a second trigger pull (much Harder) will let the hammer continue and hit the striker.

That’s interesting. How disconcerting it would be if that happened during a charge.

I know that some makers charge $2000 extra for intercepting seers.

Is it possible to change them on my VC / Demas 470 made in 2006?

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:
It is my understanding that there are "Interceptors" and "intercepting Sears"
The "Interceptors" will stop the forward progress of the hammer but you will have to open and re-cock the gun to put the gun back into battery. This is evident in many shotguns with "Interceptors".
"Intercepting Sears" which maybe found on Dangerous Game Guns, H&H comes to mind will stop the forward progress of the hammer but, with a second trigger pull (much Harder) will let the hammer continue and hit the striker.

The "interceptor" is the forward portion (nose) of the "intercepting sear" that contacts the tumbler.
They are not two different parts. If you would like to see a photo illustrating this go to Hallowell & Co. website and click on the firearms dictionary, then click on "I" of the alphabet list and scroll down to Intercepting sears and then click on the photo. You will see a photo of the H&H style back lock action used on double rifles as well as a photo of the Purdey lock and it's different type of intercepting sear.

So far we have:

Purdey
Holland and Holland
Heym
Verney Carron (optional)

I believe my Webley Box Lock built Army Navy has them.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

Originally posted by Transvaal:
Colin;

If it is inappropriate to place this into this post of yours, please indicate so and I will start a new post with it. Kindest Regards;
Steve

I do not own a double rifle with maker installed intercepting sears, so I cannot test to determine if the following issue that could happen during the shooting of dangerous game has been considered by double rifle makers and incorporated into their intercepting sear design and function. So here is the "WHAT IF":

African hunter has aimed his .450 #2 NE double rifle at a charging Cape buffalo and pulls the first trigger as the "buff" is 30 yards away; recoil from this firing of the first barrel of the double rifle with worn chipped surfaces of the primary sear releases the tumbler (hammer)and the intercepting sears stops the tumbler from moving forward and firing the second barrel. African hunter does not know that the tumbler for the second barrel is being held by the intercepting sears and he is going to attempt to pull the second trigger to fire the second barrel at the still charging "buff" that is now 10 yards away.

What is going to happen when African hunter pulls the trigger of the second barrel?

Some of you please test your unloaded double rifles and tell us what happens. See the procedure in last paragraph to test a SLE.

Note:

When I built an intercepting sear system for a SLE double rifle a couple of years ago, I designed and built the intercepting sear and the primary sear where if such a event happened above, very hard pulling of the second trigger (about 9lbs pull) would release the intercepting sear and allow the unfired barrel to fire.

With a SLE double rifle this test is easy to do as you can remove say the right lockplate and with a very small tool reach trough the trigger hole in the buttstock and release the primary trigger sear of the left action lock and the tumbler will move forward (about .020" or so); and you can then pull the left trigger (with rifle unloaded and using snap caps) and determine if the trigger pull will release the left hand tumbler from the intercepting sear.

I;m intrigued by your comment. Are you saying that if the intercepting sear is put into use (by an inadvertent firing through recoil), that the rifle becomes 'locked' and unusable? I don;t know exactly how a the interrupting sear system works, so i'm looking to understand. Thanks.

The above would not happen with a properly made intercepting sear.

The intercepting sear only move forward under the recoil inertia of the first barrel fired, but retracts when the recoil is over. If the sear blocks the barrel from firing then it is not worth the effort in the making or installing in a double rifle /shotgun.
……………………………………………….

Thanks. Yes, it seemed off that it would lock the second barrel, but needed more clarification on exactly how the system worked.

The differences in the nomenclature between intercepting safeties, interceptors and intercepting sears is a worry. Strangely, Burrard didn't mention the latter-named types or describe anything like the last - outside his subject, perhaps.

Did double rifles have the intercepting sears MacD and Zephyr mention in 1931 or 1950? If so, did these also catch a tumbler that may have been dislodged by a bump, rather than recoil (a concern as well in a safari conga line)?

A human being under stress can be a strange animal. Even if the hunter has time to open and close the rifle, he may not realise what has happened and just keep trying to pull the trigger - an obvious application for the heavy-trigger answers mentioned above.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
The differences in the nomenclature between intercepting safeties, interceptors and intercepting sears is a worry. Strangely, Burrard didn't mention the latter-named types or describe anything like the last - outside his subject, perhaps.

Did double rifles have the intercepting sears MacD and Zephyr mention in 1931 or 1950? If so, did these also catch a tumbler that may have been dislodged by a bump, rather than recoil (a concern as well in a safari conga line)?

A human being under stress can be a strange animal. Even if the hunter has time to open and close the rifle, he may not realise what has happened and just keep trying to pull the trigger - an obvious application for the heavy-trigger answers mentioned above.

Intercepting Sear - A second sear, poised just behind a second notch in the hammer. It is possible that when a cocked firearm is dropped or sharply jarred, a single sear could jump out of its notch and the hammer could fall, firing the gun accidentally. In this event, an intercepting sear would engage before the hammer could fall completely, preventing an accidental discharge. On a gun with intercepting sears, only by pulling the trigger are both sears moved out of the way simultaneously, allowing the gun to fire. Intercepting sears are usually found on better sidelock actions. They are sometimes found on best boxlocks, and can be recognized by an extra screw behind the action fences, in addition to the usual two screws (or pins) along the lower rear of the receiver.

………………………………….

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Thanks. Yes, it seemed off that it would lock the second barrel, but needed more clarification on exactly how the system worked.

I am not certain that there is/was full understanding of my hypothetical "African hunter" scenario, considering the questions that have been posed. So I edited any areas of the scenario to try to imitate the "Queen's English" language and sent the question off to two of my friends in the United Kingdom, one of which now works in the shop of one of the London big three (Boss, Purdey and Holland & Holland), and the other who began working at Purdey's as a teenager and now builds double rifles for the London big three and other well known UK gunmakers in his own shop--as a gunmaker to the trade with 40 years experience. This gentleman is well known in the UK guntrade and the trade sends him the components and he converts it all into a double rifle ready for proof, engraving and finishing.

So I posed this question to the two gunmakers:

"African hunter has aimed his Holland & Holland SLE .450 #2 NE double rife at a charging Cape Buffalo and pulls the first trigger as the buff is 30 yards away; recoil from the firing of the first barrel of the double rifle (which has a worn and chipped sear surface of the other (second barrel)lock's primary sear (unknown to the African hunter) releases the second lock's tumbler (hammer) and the second lock's intercepting sear stops and holds the second lock's tumbler from moving forward and and firing the second barrel. African hunter does not know that the tumbler of the second lock is being held by the intercepting sear and he is going to attempt to pull the second trigger to fire the second barrel as the still charging buss that is now 10 yards away.

What is going to happen when African hunter pulls the trigger of the lock of the second barrel? Is the African hunter going to be able to pull the trigger hard enough so that the intercepting sear will release the tumbler and fire the second barrel?"

HERE is what my friend with 40 years of building best quality double rifles says:

My initial reaction to the question is that the hunter needs to start running. Hopefully he can run fast enough. I have found that when these sort(double trigger) of double rifles go on (tumbler goes on) to the intercepting sear it's impossible to pull the trigger and the only way to sort it out is to recock the rifle. The depth of the intercepting block on the tumbler is so deep, the sear drop's right in and also the contact angle is such that with the mainspring pressure, the only way to get out of it is to move the tumbler backwards and release the sear by recocking the rifle.

My other friend who works at one of the London big three best quality gun and rifle makers says:

YOU raise a good point about intercepting sear design and no second shot ability in this scenario. That would be start of a very bad day. I personally do not know of any intercepting sear arrangement that is designed on purpose to operate on the failure of the main sear as you described.

Now after writing all of this about British double rifle intercepting sear design, I must say I do not know how the intercepting sear design works on the Heym, V-C, Merkel and other European BOX LOCK type double rifles and how they would perform under this scenario.

HERE is what my friend who is gunmaker to the trade says about the Boss turret style single trigger double rifles.

On the Boss single trigger double rifles the second barrel has what's called a choker. This is an intercepting sear that works on the safety underslide. As you push the safety forward it moves the interceptor out of the way of the tumbler. It's OK to do this with a Boss single trigger because if it is all working correctly then there should be no chance of a double discharge as the main sear is held in place by the turret.

So the intercepting sear system on a British double, will, after the hammer of the second barrel is inadvertently dropped due to X-factor, hold the hammer in such a way as to make it necessary to recock the rifle to shoot the second barrel?

That’s what I meant by “lock the second barrel” in my comment.

Your first friend’s comment seems to confirm that, correct?

My friends confirm that if without the trigger being pulled the primary sear releases the tumbler and that tumbler moves forward and then stopped, caught and held by the intercepting sear for that tumbler, then the trigger for that tumbler and lock cannot be pulled to release that tumbler.

Interesting. I’d love to hear how the other makers (Heym, VC, et. al) do theirs.

Verney Carron:

Without intercepting sears



WITH Interceptin Sears

Interesting. Sounds like it’s a better idea just to unload when doing a risky thing with rifle where it may be subject to a hard jolt. And keep pointed in safe direction. Now if you are run over by a buff or an elephant and lose the gun not sure it will matter but re cocking would be your option. Looks overly complicated and perhaps lawyer driven. How many times has a double fired without pulling the trigger? I’m guessing very rare like other guns if the safety is on? If the safety is off well then.....the only excuse should be run over by an elephant ?

quote:

Originally posted by Transvaal:
My friends confirm that if without the trigger being pulled the primary sear releases the tumbler and that tumbler moves forward and then stopped, caught and held by the intercepting sear for that tumbler, then the trigger for that tumbler and lock cannot be pulled to release that tumbler.

Is this to prevent inertia driven double firing? Or as a general “safety” like a firing pin block?

quote:

Originally posted by Transvaal:
My friends confirm that if without the trigger being pulled the primary sear releases the tumbler and that tumbler moves forward and then stopped, caught and held by the intercepting sear for that tumbler, then the trigger for that tumbler and lock cannot be pulled to release that tumbler.

NO! The intercepting Sear only stops the rifle firing under recoil of firing the other barrel by catching a second notch on the tumbler. When the trigger for that barrel is pulled it moves the intercepter out of the second catch notch firing that barrel.

In other words each tumbler has TWO notches, so that when one barrel is fired or the rifle is dropped so that the sear is disengaged from either barrel the interceptor catches the second notch, but the trigger for that barrel will still fire that barrel when the trigger is pulled for that barrel.
Some makers recommend always firing the right barrel first, because they only have an interceptor on the left barrel, which is not ideal. Properly, both tumblers should has an interceptor to avoid any recoil or strong jar from being dropped causing either barrel being accidentally fired! However even when a double has interceptors it will not stop either barrel being fired accidently if that trigger is strummed because that means the shooter has accidently tripped the second trigger with his finger slipping off the front trigger. A full 99% of all double discharges are caused by strumming.

…………………………………………..Hope that is, at least, as clear as Mississippi mud!

………………………………………………………………...

No, MacD, your explanation is clear and I'm glad to hear the intercepting sear also guards against jarring from knocks.

Do you know any of the particular makes that use it, beyond H&H? Does Heym, for instance, use it on their boxlocks?

My understanding is both the Hyme 88B and 89B boxlocks have intercepting sears that prevent a barrel from jarring off if dropped.

My interceptors can be overridden with a harder trigger pull. No need to recock the hammer before being allowed to fire.

Yesterday, I wrote to one of the Directors of Holland & Holland and posed the scenario that I outlined above.

This morning he replied:

Dear Stephen;

Nice to hear from you. The short answer to you question is that if the intercepting sear has prevented the 2nd hammer dropping it will not fire regardless of how many time or what force the trigger is pulled.

So Holland themselves agree with what I was told by two current double rifle builders in the UK about Holland double rifles.

That settles it for me. As to other makers of double rifles I do not know and will talk to some of them.

Aaron, I suspected that your own design would fire under any circumstances.

Maybe I’ll start calling them secondary sears then!

For the record, or maybe to muddy the waters, my 1970's made Simson 12ga and my between the wars JP Sauer 12ga both have interceptors and you can pull through them if they engage. It takes some effort, but they will release. The Simson is more or less a Merkel model 8. Both shotguns have very similar interceptor setups.

On an AYA sidelock I worked on (I made a mainspring), which is supposed to mirror an H&H, the interceptor was in parallel with the sear and on the same axle pin. It contacted a lug on the tumbler and due to the nose angle of the interceptor would wedge the tumbler. No way you could pull the trigger the way that system is set up.

I suspect you will find variations on the theme across the makers. Similar to third fasteners and any other place where someone had their innovation.


Jeremy

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
No, MacD, your explanation is clear and I'm glad to hear the intercepting sear also guards against jarring from knocks.

Do you know any of the particular makes that use it, beyond H&H? Does Heym, for instance, use it on their boxlocks?

Almost all makes will install them at extra cost. Very few will have them as a standard item. I have seven double rifles, and none are fitted with interceptors, though all the hammerless double I own interceptors were available as an add on in price. Several of my doubles are exposed hammer sidelocks, and those don't need them, but none of ones I bought new have them either.
………………………………………………………………..
PS: I don't have a Holland & Holland double rifle, and it isn't likely I will have one in the future, but I don't like the sound of not being able to fire the second barrel without breaking it open with a wounded cape buffalo closing in while I get the second barrel in action!
Almost all makes will install them at extra cost.

I am trying to think of a scenario that would lead to the above issue. Only if the firing mechanism on second barrel was defective in some way. In which case the whole rifle would be suspect. If you just dropped it with safety off on a rock and picked it up maybe...still trying to figure out the idea behind the concept. It’s not meant to replace the safety is it?

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
I am trying to think of a scenario that would lead to the above issue. Only if the firing mechanism on second barrel was defective in some way. In which case the whole rifle would be suspect. If you just dropped it with safety off on a rock and picked it up maybe...still trying to figure out the idea behind the concept. It’s not meant to replace the safety is it?

Designed to prevent firing of the second barrel without pulling he second barrels trigger. Doubling, or I guess jarred off somehow.


To add...what trigger pull weights are typical on doubles? And is the front less than the rear?

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gunslinger55:
I am trying to think of a scenario that would lead to the above issue. Only if the firing mechanism on second barrel was defective in some way. In which case the whole rifle would be suspect. If you just dropped it with safety off on a rock and picked it up maybe...still trying to figure out the idea behind the concept. It’s not meant to replace the safety is it?

The interceptor is designed to secure the one barrel from firing when the shooter fire the first barrel, which means the SAFETY in not in the on position. However it is also there to back up the safety in case of a drop.

quote:

Designed to prevent firing of the second barrel without pulling he second barrels trigger. Doubling, or I guess jarred off somehow.


To add...what trigger pull weights are typical on doubles? And is the front less than the rear?

BAX My 140-2 Merkel 470NE has about four pounds pull on the right barrel, and about seven pounds on the left barrel. My 141E-1 9.3X74R has a set trigger on the right barrel that allows a 2 pound let off when applied, and a 4 pound when not. Merkel will not install a set trigger on the big bores.

………………………………………………………….

True intercepting sears are designed so the gun cannot discharge through a bump or from recoil in heavy calibers. The design provides that, when the trigger is pulled the intercepting sear is lifted by the trigger movement and the tumbler is allowed to fall without interference.

A past concern in hunting with heavy recoiling 'hammerless' double guns and rifles was that the recoil from the first shot would jar the sear of the second barrel tumbler and release it for an almost instantaneous discharge - doubling in effect. This is one of the reasons that African hunters stayed with hammer guns so long after hammerless guns were available - the second barrel hammer was carried at half cock and not set to fire until after the first shot - effectively preventing doubling.

Most better quality British guns built in the 20th century featured intercepting sears, even better quality boxlocks. My Lindner Daly has intercepting sears, as does my Henry Atkin spring opener and Dickson's redesigned their round action gun about the turn of the century to include an intercepting sear. . I have never heard of an intercepting sear causing a gun to jam and refuse to fire. The tumbler, when the intercepting sear is set, is just at the start of its travel. Pulling the trigger will release the tumbler, allowing it to fall as normal. If H&H does not build their guns to this design, then I would not have one. I think the H&H 'Director' is mistaken or their design is flawed.

quote:

Originally posted by Alec Torres:
True intercepting sears are designed so the gun cannot discharge through a bump or from recoil in heavy calibers. The design provides that, when the trigger is pulled the intercepting sear is lifted by the trigger movement and the tumbler is allowed to fall without interference.

A past concern in hunting with heavy recoiling 'hammerless' double guns and rifles was that the recoil from the first shot would jar the sear of the second barrel tumbler and release it for an almost instantaneous discharge - doubling in effect. This is one of the reasons that African hunters stayed with hammer guns so long after hammerless guns were available - the second barrel hammer was carried at half cock and not set to fire until after the first shot - effectively preventing doubling.

Most better quality British guns built in the 20th century featured intercepting sears, even better quality boxlocks. My Lindner Daly has intercepting sears, as does my Henry Atkin spring opener and Dickson's redesigned their round action gun about the turn of the century to include an intercepting sear. . I have never heard of an intercepting sear causing a gun to jam and refuse to fire. The tumbler, when the intercepting sear is set, is just at the start of its travel. Pulling the trigger will release the tumbler, allowing it to fall as normal. If H&H does not build their guns to this design, then I would not have one. I think the H&H 'Director' is mistaken or their design is flawed.

The passage in bold above is my opinion as well! I have never seen a double rifle or shotgun with interceptors that locked the barrel from firing with the trigger for that barrel because the interceptor stopped a recoil induced doubling. Like the poster above I believe the H&H poster is simply mistaken. I don't believe H&H would design an interceptor that worked like he described.


…………………………………………………….

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37
I have never seen a double rifle or shotgun with interceptors that locked the barrel from firing with the trigger for that barrel because the interceptor stopped a recoil induced doubling. Like the poster above I believe the H&H poster is simply mistaken. I don't believe H&H would design an interceptor that worked like he described.

From 'The Hammerless Double Rifle' by Alexander Gray concerning Holland Sidelock Actions. Page 68


"The only manner in which the rifle can be fired, should the intercepting safety lever be engaged, is to bring the rifle lock to the fully cocked position again."

quote:

Originally posted by 5seventy:

From 'The Hammerless Double Rifle' by Alexander Gray concerning Holland Sidelock Actions. Page 68


"The only manner in which the rifle can be fired, should the intercepting safety lever be engaged, is to bring the rifle lock to the fully cocked position again."

If this is correct, why on earth would H&H design it this way? Make absolutely no sense!

Other makers do not have this limitation.

AT

Regarding the VC interceptors shown in the photos in a post above …………

That type of interceptor can prevent an accidental discharge from one or both barrels resulting from a bump jar or drop.
However it will do nothing to prevent a double discharge caused by the second barrel's lock being released when the first barrel is fired.

That type of interceptor is engaged and disengaged by a linkage connected to the thumb safety slide.

When the rifle is ON SAFE, the interceptor blocks the tumblers from reaching the strikers if the gun is dropped or jarred in some way.

When the rifle is OFF SAFE the interceptors are lifted clear, (by the thumb safety mechanism) to allow one or both tumblers to impact the strikers when the trigger/s are pulled, or if the trigger sear/s were jarred out of engagement.

When the rifle is OFF SAFE, that type of interceptor has NO WAY of catching or blocking the tumblers to prevent either an accidental discharge if the rifle was dropped, or a double discharge if the second barrel's sear lets go when the first barrel is fired.

I'm not meaning to be critical of this system or of the VC rifles, but just wanting to highlight the way that this type of interceptor functions.

I have Alexander Gray's book and you are correct in stating that his book says that about H&H side lock H&H rifles. My question is, do the H&H box-lock rifle also have that same type interceptor?

I have read that that book has some real mistakes in it. One of the well known double rifle collectors bought that book and gave it away stating that there was a lot of misinformation in it!
I'm not saying that is the case, and I wouldn't know if this is true, or bunk, but this seems a little over designed by H&H if true.
…………………………………………………...

I had them on a browning superposed at one time, and I like them on the shotgun..

On a double rifle I want no part of auto saftys, automatic ejectors, intercepting sears, I prefer to keep is simple, Give me two triggers as that equals two guns, give me extractors so I can break down the gun to load without having to bend it over my freaking knee, I will be the one who puts my safety on and off..

I feel safer that way.