Has anyone had experience with the claim that these shoot to the same POI and can be used interchangeably?
Looking to start reloading for my 500 and like the idea of having a single powder/weight, with multiple bullets.
The next step would be finding them. Quick search on web yielded no results for in stock????

I have used them in my .375 H & H, .416 Rigby, .458 Lott and .470 NE. In the .375 H & H, the Rigby and the .470 they shot pretty much to the same place (within an inch at 100 yards for the .375 and .416, and about 2" at 40 yards in the .470). I like them and wish I could find some 450 gr banded solids for my .458.

Karl

Given lack of availability of Barnes solids, would one recommend CEBs? Just started looking at their website and it looks like they offer solutions although the solids and non are different weights.

What gun and caliber are you writing about?

They shoot same POI in my Searcy 470NE double - the CEB solids also shoot to the same POI with the same powder load of IMR 4831

Have a look at North Forks.

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:
What gun and caliber are you writing about?

My Merkel 500 NE

I'm using the CEB's in my Searcy .500 NE and they do a fine job.

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
I'm using the CEB's in my Searcy .500 NE and they do a fine job.

Same loads for solids/non cons and same POI?

BATFE is giving Barnes the run-around over their Banded Solids. ATF changed its mind and decided that the Barnes solids are "armor piercing bullets" and so far isn't giving Barnes an exception letter. Even the guys at CEB say Barnes is getting a raw deal. I asked the Barnes folks if they have given up but didn't hear back from them.

quote:

Originally posted by hunteratheart:
Has anyone had experience with the claim that these shoot to the same POI and can be used interchangeably?

At least in my 378 Weatherby they shoot to the same POI at 100 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by hunteratheart:

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
I'm using the CEB's in my Searcy .500 NE and they do a fine job.

Same loads for solids/non cons and same POI?

Hunter.......

I can't answer for Pagosa, but I am pretty sure that the solid/noncon are same POI in his guns......

When we were working on this, it was one of the very most important issues to me personally, bolt gun or double, did not matter. I had a sneaking suspicion that bearing surface and length of bullet was more important than WEIGHT for POI with both trauma inflicting bullet, and solid matchup, regardless of action type. So when I had Dan make the first NonCons, now the Safari Raptors, I told him to take our Solid, same bullet, put a .400 deep cavity, six sided, and forget about the weight. The NonCon or Raptor, is the same bullet as the Solid, just with the HP. Dan tweaked a few grains here and there to get weight to even number for the most part, but essentially the Solid/NonCon are the same bullet. My theory was that with the same load, they would be in the same hole, bearing surface and length being the same. On this, in 98% of the rifles I have ever worked with, double, bolt, lever, singles, this has been true. I have had a few lever guns that want to be slightly apart for whatever reason, but never more than an inch at 50 yards......

With the NonCon or Raptor being lighter, weight equals pressure.... Normally the HP is 5000-7000 PSI less than the solid. In my bolt guns I run another grain of powder or sometimes two, raise velocity 100-150 fps with the HP. This normally puts the NonCon or HP from 1/2 to 1 inch higher than the solid at 50 yards, windage good to go......

If using the same load, most of the time, most rifles, the NonCon will only be 25-40 fps faster, sometimes not that much, than the solid.....

Maybe that helps some.....

Michael

Thanks Michael. Pagosa and I hooked up thru PM as he is getting me some load info for his 500. Glad to hear some forethought went into the CEB making as you expressed. Looks like I'm going to have to give them a try. So would it be the 570 grain solid and 530 grain raptor that I would pair together? Is the CEB site typically the best place to buy from a price standpoint?
Thanks again.
Steve

Steve.....

Excellent..... Pagosa will have some good stuff for you.... In addition, Sam and I did a LOT of load data, with pressure data on the 500 Nitro with CEB bullets as a primary. You can find that data here on my website if you want.....

http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...a-Barrel-Strain.html

Yes, the 570Solid/530 Noncon or Raptor is the pair. However, saying that, Sam downsized the .510s, the same as I did a lot of the bolt gun B&Ms.... By that I mean, the performance is so good, that you do not have to have traditional weight bullets to get the terminal performance required, and in many many cases, you get superior performance with some of the lighter bullets at higher velocity. For the .510s, Sam did a 510 Solid paired with a 475 NonCon. The 510 solid has been proven many times now on elephant/buffalo, and Sam worked with the 475 NonCon on Australian buffalo and it was IMPRESSIVE beyond belief on them, including big brawny bulls. Fact of the matter, the 475 NonCon out performed the 530 on all counts.

Now this will blow you out I am sure, Sam and I were able in several Double Rifles to get 2350-2400 fps out of the 475 NonCon in 500 Nitro, and under max pressure. 2280-2300 fps with the 510 Solid under Max Pressures. Buffalo cannot handle that 475 NoNCon at anything like those velocities...........

These might also be worth checking out............ I can pretty much guarantee you that it will turn your 500 into something else all together.......... I have seen these at work......... and I have seen buffalo reactions to taking them, it's pretty awesome......... Pretty much like they are in shock and have taken something they can't handle...

Just FYI.... Not trying to convince you of anything.......... Just trying to assist.......

Michael

On my old .600 Wilkes the Barnes, Woodleighs, and 900-grain lead all shot to an equal target. But, a large caliber double with open sights is not the best judge of comparative accuracy.
Cal

I have shot the 400 TSX and 400 BBS in my Heym, the rifle was requested to be regulated with the TSX. Both shoot so close as to not be able to tell which is which.

As far a buying said projectiles, good luck. I did buy loaded Barnes Vortex ammo in 416 Rigby, in both TSX and BBS. I have an order in at Brownells, for the Federal Premium Capeshok stuff, but I think Federal is not loading the Barnes anymore.

Could not find any 375 BBS solids, due to the mentioned ATF BS. Bought 300 grain TSX, Vortex, worked very well. Brought handfull of BBS solids I already had loaded, shot same as Vortex.

Interestingly, got a couple boxes of Norma 375 in Namibia, loaded with 300 BBS. Shot a little higher than the TSX, but as is usaully the case, I think it is because Norma loads ammo a little bit hotter than US makers. Was no issues at the short ranges I needed that for, but kept my supply of "normal" rounds for the longer shots. I did not want to have to do a new workup for a new round, with only 40 rounds to play with.

You may have to look at buying loaded ammo and just shoot that. Save brass, bring home.

I also think you might be able to buy BBS overseas, and bring it back with you, not sure.


Post edit - Sinclair Reloading has 500 grain TSX in stock right now. No BBS.