If you were going to have a rifle made, say a 470 or 500 NE, what features would you have build into the rifle to make it more accurate, usable and not kick the hell out of you?

I am thinking of the following:
1-Proper weight.
2-Excellent recoil pad
3-Slightly lessen the drop.
4-Highly visible front sight.
5-Rear sights with contrast.
6-Built to my measurements.
7-Low light bead.


Any others?

8-proper balance.

9-Scope option.

10.Rib cuts for a red dot sight base.

Knowing what ALL I know NOW...

If I was buying a new made double rifle, it would be a Heym, in the calibre of my choice.

It would be set up for a Swarovski 1.5 to 6x in claw mounts, with a Docter Optic sight mounted in front of the scope.

I would recommend a 450/400 3" unless you were going to hunt a BUNCH of elephants.

If Elephants are your thing, as they are mine, then a 450 or a 470 is a little better choice if you can handle the extra recoil...

I like the 450 Bore, personally...

But I have killed cape buff and bull elephant with a 450/400 with no problems. And the recoil from a 450/400 is quite a bit less than the larger bores.

For the client hunter the 450/400 is a hard choice to beat...

Let me confess my ignorance. What is a red dot base? How about a Doctor Optic sight?

The red dot base is a Docter Optic base....it's basically a standard at this time as all the mfrs of open red dot sights use the same mounting dimensions as Docter Optic.

I'd make sure it was made to fit me properly!
(but you already covered that...)


Cheers
Tinker

Manual safety, double triggers set to 4 - 4.5 pounds, 26" barrels, no cheek piece, leather recoil pad, extended tang (just because).

Scope mounts? Red dot sights? What is double rifle shooting coming to?

Some good comments here. But after owning a rifle with 26 inch barrels would not order that length again.
Make mine 24.

26 seems to be the flavor of the week but for me it is just 2 extra wasted inches of rifle.

MJ

As some of us get older we cannot use iron sights very good. A Docter Optic red dot enables one to shoot very good.

Even Ivan Carter has had his long time 450 3 1/4" Heym double AND his 600 Nitro Heym Double fitted for a red dot.
He chose the Trijicon Red dot.

And if you know anything about Ivan, he gets close, REAL CLOSE, but he still knows the advantages of the red dot sight...

Trijicon, Aimpoint, and Docter are your reflex sight options right now (Burris may have one too). They should have all three at SCI, and they will have the Docter version at the Heym booth. For my money, I can see and aim the Aimpoint better than either of the others. The Aimpoint is, however, the least attractive option.

If it was my rifle, in addition to what has already been listed and added, I would want extended tangs.

Enough weight so you do not get hammered with the recoil. Start at 11 lbs., 24 in. barrels, manual safety, A premium recoil pad, get professionally fitted for your double. I like three lb triggers.
Balanced at the hinge.

Mike

I second that

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Some good comments here. But after owning a rifle with 26 inch barrels would not order that length again.
Make mine 24.

26 seems to be the flavor of the week but for me it is just 2 extra wasted inches of rifle.

I have recently ordered a Verney-Carron in 470 that is to weigh between 10.2 to 10.5lbs, 25" Barrel and Recknagel single V rear sight with silver line and properly filled bead with pop up night sight.
Hope this provides the items you have mentioned.

1. Ghost sight from the very start.
2. 26" barrels.
3. If not ghost sight - I'd like to have a rear like Heym offers on their 88B:

The history of double rifles and cartridges can be ignored but when all is said and done it always comes back to the .470 NE.

It's relatively mild recoil in a lightweight gun, it's excellent penetration, and Taylor's (and mine!) knockout value put it at the top of the list. It has been the standard for a hundred years and still is the best single choice for a double.

If I had your bucks I'd fly to London and drop the $200K to get H&H or WR to build me an 8 1/2 pound single trigger svelte double with a straight stock, ejectors, a big white round bead front sight, and a shallow V rear sight.

This is the same old stuff of the best of stuff for a hundred years. Go figger. You'd already know this stuff had you bought my book!

And if you know where to shoot 'em the 470 NE will get it done. Shooting a 500 NE will not make up for operator error. (That's just to get the 500 boys riled up. )

Good luck with your decision.

I read some of the above comments and would add that I agree with the absurdity of having barrels greater than 24 inches.

I love hate mail!

What MJines said.

Will,
Unless that double was initially made with 26 inch tubes, as mine were, and balanced accordingly.

Dutch

I'm considering 28" barrels on my Bradshaw falling block DR. So put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Will:


when all is said and done it always comes back to the .470 NE.

Good choice but about anything from 450NE 3 1/4" to 500NE will do if you know how to shoot it, and where to place the bullets!

quote:

get H&H or WR to build me an 8 1/2 pound single trigger svelte double with a straight stock, ejectors, a big white round bead front sight, and a shallow V rear sight.

Will you have a gut for punishment! I have an 11 pound 470NE double, and in some hunting positions it will get your undevided attention vey quickly! I don't think I'd want a 470NE double 8 1/2 pounds. Will no wonder you like a single trigger! when you fire that 8 1/2 pound 470NE double rifle there's no feeling left in your arm and fingers so you can find another trigger! I have a 9.3X74R double that weighs 8.3 pounds, and that is just about right for that chambering!

quote:

This is the same old stuff of the best of stuff for a hundred years. Go figger. You'd already know this stuff had you bought my book!

Good luck with your decision.

Folks you have to be properly dressed when you read Will's books! The print is invisable till you cut the sleeves off your shirt, and put your feet in sandles, then disregard about half of the print once it is visible! Just kidding you will, and to all others I haven't read Will second book, but if it is as good as his first it will be PASSABLE at least

Sorry folks for the previous post! I just couldn't pass the chance to hekkle Will a little bit!

In regard to haveing a double built to my likeing, I would want the following:

#1 I want box lock with double triggers PERIOD!

#2 If I were an elephant hunter my caliber choice would simply be an 11 pound 500NE, for everything else My choice would likely be a 9 pound 450/400NE 3", or a 450NE 3 1/4".

#3 I want facility for mounting a low powered illuminated scope on all but the 500NE. Irons being a standing wide "V" rear with whiteline,cut to be dead on at 25 yds and a flip up rear sight cut for 125 yds! A Warthog front standing bead, with a 3-.32s" flip up white night bead.

#4 24" barrels are fine IMO if the ballance point was just 1" ahead of the hinge pin.

#5 A manual safety!

#6 Enough money too hunt Africa 30 days per year till I die! HUMMMMM that will likely not be long at this point!

I shoot a 7 1/2 pound 416. Why an 8 1/2 pound double will cause paralysis I am not sure.

If heavy doubles are the thing, why not take a 12 pound 12 gauge quail hunting?

Man nobody has mentioned the following which are very important on any big bore double.

1.The most gorgeous exhibition grade wood money can buy
2.Lavish Deep cut engraving with gold inlay

Larry
P.S As Biebs would say with curb feelers

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

Scope mounts? Red dot sights? What is double rifle shooting coming to?

+1

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
MJ

As some of us get older we cannot use iron sights very good. A Docter Optic red dot enables one to shoot very good.

Even Ivan Carter has had his long time 450 3 1/4" Heym double AND his 600 Nitro Heym Double fitted for a red dot.
He chose the Trijicon Red dot.

And if you know anything about Ivan, he gets close, REAL CLOSE, but he still knows the advantages of the red dot sight...

N E 450 No2:

I don't mean to bust your chops but double rifles were never designed for scopes, especially guns like the 450/400, 450, 470, 500, etc all of which push heavy bullets at modest velocity. IMHO, none of these guns are for longe range shooting. That's why you carry a back up bolt rifle with a scope in a flatter shooting cartridge. We Americans seem to have forgotten how to use iron sights. Practice with your irons until you can consistently break a gallon milk jug filled with water at 50 meters and you will be good to go. Besides, scopes look butt ugly on a double!

Yes
When I shoot a rifle with iron sites I see two front beads must have been born to shoot a double.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
MJ

As some of us get older we cannot use iron sights very good. A Docter Optic red dot enables one to shoot very good.

Even Ivan Carter has had his long time 450 3 1/4" Heym double AND his 600 Nitro Heym Double fitted for a red dot.
He chose the Trijicon Red dot.

And if you know anything about Ivan, he gets close, REAL CLOSE, but he still knows the advantages of the red dot sight...

N E 450 No2:

I don't mean to bust your chops but double rifles were never designed for scopes, especially guns like the 450/400, 450, 470, 500, etc all of which push heavy bullets at modest velocity. IMHO, none of these guns are for longe range shooting. That's why you carry a back up bolt rifle with a scope in a flatter shooting cartridge. We Americans seem to have forgotten how to use iron sights. Practice with your irons until you can consistently break a gallon milk jug filled with water at 50 meters and you will be good to go. Besides, scopes look butt ugly on a double!

dave

just a small correction, the above statement is not correct, the earlist double rifle in my collection with factory mounts for a scope is a daniel fraser barrel set with black powder proof marks only, which puts us around 1900, it was not an option that was used alot but that was because of the quality of scopes availeble to the costomers at the time.

weather one likes the looks of a double with a scope or not, wont change the historic facts.

best

peter

Many interesting comments. A few I had not thought of. Thank you all.

Would you all care to expound on the merits of a 24 inch barrels versus 26 inch barrels? To me, my thoughts are that the 24 inch barrels would be faster yet lighter.

Also you thoughts on the perfect weight for either a 470 NE or a 500 NE? Personally, I would rather carry an extra pound or two to reduce recoil. In training last year for an elephant hunt, I routinely carried a 22 pound bar over my shoulder for several miles 3 or 4 times a week.

Larry
Last comment have Bailey Bradshaw build you the most unique Double in a Falling Block.
I am.

Larry

quote:

I routinely carried a 22 pound bar over my shoulder for several miles 3 or 4 times a week

Larry, that's nothing! I've had a "Ball & Chain" on for 30 years...she weighs almost 110 lbs!!!

quote:

Originally posted by elk88101:
Larry
Last comment have Bailey Bradshaw build you the most unique Double in a Falling Block.
I am.

Larry

that sounds like a good plan.

larry

the difference between 24" and 26" is mostly optical, there is not much difference in the weight.
i like the 24" as the shorter lenght seems to be better for crawling through bush, but honestly what can 2" do, get what rocks your boat, that is the idea of these things.

best

peter

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Many interesting comments. A few I had not thought of. Thank you all.

Would you all care to expound on the merits of a 24 inch barrels versus 26 inch barrels? To me, my thoughts are that the 24 inch barrels would be faster yet lighter.

Also you thoughts on the perfect weight for either a 470 NE or a 500 NE? Personally, I would rather carry an extra pound or two to reduce recoil. In training last year for an elephant hunt, I routinely carried a 22 pound bar over my shoulder for several miles 3 or 4 times a week.

Well, then, get a 22 pound 700 NE.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
The history of double rifles and cartridges can be ignored but when all is said and done it always comes back to the .470 NE.

insert .500 NE

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Scope mounts? Red dot sights? What is double rifle shooting coming to?

I've got a Docter Optic red dot on my Chapuis 470 (JJ did the work) and love it. My 53 year old eyes don't focus too well on iron sights. Granted its only been used to poke holes is paper but Reno is only a week away and I'm looking for a buffalo and tuskless.

I think I need to look into this red dot thing. I am sure I have seen it. I never knew what it was called.

My 55 year old eyes don't focus like they once did.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

Would you all care to expound on the merits of a 24 inch barrels versus 26 inch barrels? To me, my thoughts are that the 24 inch barrels would be faster yet lighter.

Also you thoughts on the perfect weight for either a 470 NE or a 500 NE?

The longest barrels on my doubles is 26" and the shortest is 23". When shooting at game I really don't notice much difference.
The important thing is that each double must be balanced correctly.
If I had to pick an ideal barrel length it would be 25".
A short person might prefer shorter barrels than a tall person.

For the 470 NE, I like it to weigh around 10 pounds, and the 500 NE around 10.5 pounds.

Dave Bush

I have a Westley richards Catalog from 1912, that shows double rifles with scopes.
Scopes of 2 1/2x, 3 1/2x and 5x.

Even in the information on their 577 Nitro Express, they state:
Telescope Sights accurately sighted and adusted 12 12 0 extra. [with the British pound sign in front of the first 12.

I have used my scoped 9,3x74R, and my scoped 450/400 3 1/4" with great effect.

While many people may accept a scope on a medoum bore double, scoping my 450/400 was on of the best things I have done.

Anything I could do with a 40 cal. scoped bolt rifle I can do with a scoped 450/400 double.

And I much prefer to hunt with a double, most of the time.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I shoot a 7 1/2 pound 416. Why an 8 1/2 pound double will cause paralysis I am not sure.

Will, have you ever done any shooting with an 8.5 pound 470 NE?

Also let me add that I have taken 2 caribou in AK with my iron sighted 450/400 one at 175 yards and I killed a giraffe with my 450 No2, iron sights, at 188 yards, I hit him with a right and a left.

And I spun rapidly walking elephant at 120 yards with a right and a left also with iron sights and the 450 No2, so I can shoot iron sights at a distance when necessary.

I do however prefer to shoots elephants at 6 yards or less.

But some people cannot use iron sights as well as they used to, so if the object is to make a good shot then I say use a red dot or a scope, whether your rifle is a double, bolt or whatever... Have it in a quality QD mount, and put it on/take it off as the need arises.