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I was surprised at how negative Boddington was on doubles in this book, especially since I have seen so many pics of him using one. Reading between the lines he seems to think the compact size, quick handling, and fast 2nd shot are more or less not needed. He goes on to say it is the first one that really matters and leads the reader to believe doubles are seriously inferior to bolts in terms of accuracy. He also doesn't believe in scoped doubles. I walked away thinking Boddington thinks they are too heavy, two expensive, not good with scopes, and not accurate. Any insight into these comments? | ||
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Maybe it has something to do with the fact that most of the people who sign his pay checks are in the bolt rifle business? No one will disagree that the first shot counts. But in the field, a branch, the wind or the sudden movement of an animal, to name a few variables, can leave that first shot off the mark. That may not be much of an issue for things that tend to run away from the hunter. But if you are in close with something that may charge, stomp, gore, bite or claw you, that quick second shot sure is nice insurance. And there are many hunting situations were the terrain and cover make it necessary to get in close. The other consideration is that even with a perfect heart shot, some animals tend to forget they should be dead. SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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That's weird? I've spoken with him on several occasions and he still rues the day he sold his favorite double rifle the 450/400 3 inch. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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Too heavy? Ha!  Not sure why a 458 WM is acceptable at 8 and a half lbs. but a 470 NE "needs" to weigh 10 and a half!  There is very little "need" for a double, but they do have the cool factor. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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You have to forgive Boddington somewhat, because he started off with a disadvantage! He is left handed, and when he was young, the only rifle made in even decent chamberings, in a left had model, was the Rimington mod 700. That rifle tainted his view of all rifles, because that was all he could use, so it became the rifle to judge all rifles by! Left hand double rifles on the used market are as scarce as hen's teeth, so he had little choice of well fitting double rifles from the start. Now that there are many NEW double rifles, that can be had made to fit, it is too late for Crieg, he's already been brain washed. Does one NEED a double rifle to hunt dangerous game? NO! Is the double rifle as easy to make shots at 300 yds as it is with a good bolt rifle? Not generally, by most shooters. Are Double rifles as accurate as a bolt rifle? YES, if the bolt rifle is the average hunting rifle. The Double rifle that has had proper loads worked up for it, and the owner knows how to shoot, the double is as accurate at long range as any iron sighted hunting rifle, fired under hunting conditions. Still, where the big bore double rifle is at it's absolute best is off the front sight, with animals that hook, bite & scratch, and for those type animals, it takes away from the experience to snipe them from 150 yds. The whole idea of dangerous game hunting is, they are dangerous, and take exception to being molested. Dangerous game ceases to be dangerous at 150 yds, so what is the point, of shooting them at that range, no matter what type rifle you are useing?  Like Rusty, I've had some fairly long conversations with Crieg, and though I admit the double is not his all round favorite type of rifle, he doesn't dislike them, or down grade their effectiveness in the place where the double rifle excells! The difference between him, and me is, my first double rifle was a Daisey mod 12 double barreled BB gun at the tender age of 4 yrs, and I have been useing doubles of one type or another ever since. Crieg's was at the age of about 25, and it was a no name, used, RIGHT HAND double rifle, that he had to put some effort into learning to shoot. By that time he was already very effecient with his bolt rifles, and the double didn't have the built in HEART of Africa for him that it did for me. If experience in Africa is the only criteria for judgeing the double rifle, against the bolt rifle, then Bodd is 100% correct, but if use of the double as much as the use of bolt rifles, in years of hunting, then My take makes some tracks in the woods as well! I can shoot either effectively, in the hunting field, and if I can, so can others. The rifle is not the problem, it is the shooter, 99% of the time!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Craig is writing his book with the average 20 round a year deer hunter, going to Africa one time in his life, tourist adventurer in mind. A brand new double isn't a good idea for that individual. As we all know a bit of dedication and practice make those "inaccurate" doubles pretty damned usable. | |||
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My read was that he compared the + and - of each. Most shooters would not be happy with a double. You have to be a serious gun nut or serious hunter to invest the money. You have to put up with the recoil,then jumb though hoops to reload for it. You would be lucky with a 2 moa rifle. There is no such thing as a fair fight, If you are going toe to toe with one of the big five at spitin distance there is nothing better! They feel right, hit hard, and can be counted on when the chips or down. I am finding they are harder to shoot well than a scoped bolt gun. If you can master one you will have a right like the hand of Thor, and just as good a left. I am starting to like mine a lot. JD JD DRSS 9.3X74 tika 512 9.3X74 SXS Merkel 140 in 470 Nitro | |||
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He spoke very highly of doubles in his "Boddington on Buffalo" video. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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Jim is spot on IMO. I rarely consume Boddington anyhow. | |||
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I find Boddington's writing to be about the most lack luster dull material ever produced. Just like the majority of gun rag writers today. As a group they are nothing more than mouth pieces for whom ever is paying them to write about their guns. There is nothing exciting or griping in ANY of the commercial gun/hunting material being produced in this country today. I do however find Boddington's material to be correct in fact and of good advice for the most part. If you can stay awake long enough to get through a whole article. | |||
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Surestrike, Boddington is not the spell binder that some of the old time writers were, but there are few, even amoung PHs today, who have more experience with the different rifles on big game. No matter what folks think about his writeing, positively, about every gun he uses for a hunt, I don't think you can catch him in any lie! The fact is, Bodd's style is governed, by the fact that he is a rifleman, and he seems to love any one he uses. He is a "GALSS IS HALF FULL" type of guy, and simply doesn't dwell on minor design flaws, that really do not matter, but preferes a positive tack! I'm sure you have spoken to him at shows, and his personality is evident, to anyone who cares to think about it, that he is simply a positive guy! I've been reading Boddington, since he started, and I've never found him to be a panderor, but is simply a guy who loves hunting and guns, one as much as the other! I've watched Boddington grow up, and I can't think of a more honest, and credable writer, among all the ones I,ve read over 64 yrs since I learned to read! I find the flowers some writers garnish their stories with, to make them eye openers, are for the most part, just that, FLOWERS, where none should grow! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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As concerning most matters, Boddington is sensible and correct regarding the bolt vs. double debate. And GeoffM24, I believe you have misconstrued him. He is quite an aficionado of doubles. He just does not think, as some do, that they are somehow necessary or overwhelmingly superior to bolt actions. Experience and good sense, rather than romance and braggadocio, are the common currency of his writing. One may disagree with him, but he is seldom wrong. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I never said Boddington wasn't a writer of correct information. Rather that his material reads like an instruction manual rather than a story. To each their own. | |||
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I certainly may have read more into some of this writing then was there. The things that stuck out for me was his talk about scoped rifles being far superior in almost any situation, the lower cost of bolts, the better accuracy, and his down playing of the second shot, handiness, and feel of a nice double. He certianly pointed out the advantages of a double but really didn't seem to think they added all that much value and certainly not enough to out way the negatives. All that said I'm watching him on TV right now hunting elephants with an iron sighted .470 double. Maybe he needs to read his own comments again about scopeless rifles and doubles  | |||
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I think his statements are true for in regards to the majority of hunters. What he doesn't take into account is the 2% of us nuts who spend the time and the money to learn the art of the double. And once you've caught the double bug there is no cure. I've noticed that Craig uses his .470 quit a bit in all of his videos. I think he must have the bug. | |||
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I have to agree with surestrike. I think that Boddington does write for the majority of hunters. Most people are not willing to invest the capital nor the time for a double rifle. He represents the average hunter these days.  Dirk Schimmel D Schimmel LLC Dirk@DoubleRifles.Us 1-307-257-9447 Double rifles make Africa safe enough for bolt guns! | |||
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It is also fair to remember that Safari Rifles was written in late the 1980's (printed in 91). When he wrote SR, he said that it was very rare to see a DR in a Safari camp and the ones that were seen were older British guns that were expensive and ammo was scarce. The market for DR has changed drastically sense 1991. | |||
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When writing SAFARI RIFLES, a book about African big game rifles, one was not writeing about the average hunter in 1991.
My opinion as well! The number of double rifles one saw in the field of Africa in 1980s, were very few, and far between. That doesn't mean there weren't lots of double rifles in Africa, it only means the ammo for them wasn't easy to come by! The market for big bore big game rifle to be used in Africa today, is far different than it was in the late 80s. One hardly sees a game picture of an elephant, or buffalo, that there isn't atleast one double rifle in the picture, sometimes two, because if the client hunter isn't hunting with one the PH usually is, or vice-versa! Still, h2oboy is right, because when talking about hunting in Africa, for anything other than plains game, we are usually not talking about the AVERAGE hunter. Most average American hunters are preocupied with deer hunting, and an ocasional elk hunt. And that usually is done with an off the shelf Remington mod 700, 7mm mag or 30-06, with a TASCO 3-9X40 scope on it. There are thousands of them, and most will not invest more than $700, or $800 on any kind of rifle! That is, till he gets a taste of one African hunt! Boddington has a very nice Rigby 470NE today, the he can place two rounds in a 1.5" composite group, on paper with. So I think you would find he has a whole different opinion on double rifles today, than he did back in the 1980s! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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There are too many here that think your taking your life into your hands if you hunt with a bolt rifle instead of a double for elephant or buff. I have used both on elephants and never felt underarmed with either. In some charge situations a double may prove a life saver and in the next the bolt rifle may save your bacon. Unfortunately you don't know which will occur until it happens. I have read a lot of CB's writings and never got the opinion that he preferred a bolt rifle over a double for DG. In the Tanzania elephant hunt that was on today they said he was using a Rigby rifle in 450 3 1/4" loaded with factory Hornady ammo using Hornady's 500 grain solid bullet. I had to run it a couple of times to be sure I heard it correctly. Anyone know if Hornady is going to make 450 3 1/4" ammo? 465H&H | |||
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The narator just had it wrong! The Rigby is a 470NE! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Bolddington may not write as colorful as say Capstick, but one thing is for sure he has been there and done it, not telling others stories with much embelishment. Don't get me wrong Capstick did much for Africian hunting, but call a spade a spade. | |||
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It's probably because no DR maker has given him a free rifle. If on had his articles would read: My magnificant Westley Richards/H&H/etc. rose to my shoulder, as I watched the animal through the excellent Khales scope I slowly squeezd the trigger. My Danner boots swiftley brought me to the downed animal where I saw the 470 grain Federal solid had broken it's shoulder....yada yada. I'm so tired of the new generation commercial writers! | |||
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I agree with MacD37 The world DR market didn't really start to take off until Mid - Late 1980's and the US was behind the rest of the world in this by a few years so IMHO, anything written before 1992 - 1995 would probably not mention DR's a lot. | |||
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Just got an e-mail from CB and he says the Rigby was a 450 3 1/4". The ammo was made by Superior and loaded with Hornady solids. Hornady does not plan to make 450 nitro ammo but Craig is trying to talk them into it. 465H&H | |||
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465 you are surley right, as confirmed by Boddington himself. I must learn to read more closely, I didn't realize you were talking about the Tanzania ele hunt, and assumed you were speaking about the Rigby he was shooting in his video called "BODDINGTON on BUFFALO" whic is a Rigby 470NE, and I wasn't aware he had two Rigbys!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Mac, You seem to have a lot of knowledge about Craig. Isn't he or wasn't he some how involved with the California Rigby's? Part owner possibly at one time?? there is a dim spark in the dark recesses of my calloused and aged memory but I'm not sure if that was true or not.. | |||
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I was talking to Boddington about my .450 nme ruger nr 1 and he liked the rifle and caliber so much that he got that Rigby in ,.450 to try it out on elephant, he liked it very much and is working to get it made with new Factory loaded ammo in USA now . I hope he will get it done, cause new brass is always welcome here. | |||
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surestrike, I only know what I read in the papers! I believe you're right about the relationship with Rigby, at least, as far as doing an article about them, and tagging along on a regulation trip to the range with them. I know he's around their shop a lot, but that doesn't mean any financial partnership. I do know that Mark Watts has baught into Rigby, at least, according to him! What I can't fathom is, any other athlete can get endorcments for all sorts of products related to his sport, and everyone thinks that is the cat's meow,and understand that is part of how he makes a liveing, but if a hunting/gun writer does commercial for anything he is pandering! Maybe I' a little dence, but I simply do not see the difference.  I don't enjoy the commercials in hunting films, and shows, but I do understand them. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Mac, IMO there's a difference between an athlete that is reported ON and the reporter himself. The athlete has no expectation of impartiality and can endorse a product even if he doesn't like or use it. This is a long held no-no in journalism and the answer to your question depends on whether you think CB is a journalist or an athlete.... -UtahLefty | |||
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Whether you like Craig's writing or not is a mute point. If that sorry SOB is going to get Hornandy to produce .450 NE rounds and cases he needs to get them to to the .47NE0s first,, damn it!! There are more of us and we DEMAND cheaper brass. | |||
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I didn't get the impression that he was anti double rifle, in fact I thought he pretty well spelled it out as to their good points and bad points. I thought Safari Rifles was one of the better books on African Rifles to be published in the last hundred years. He quoted a lot of PHs, and that was informative. It wasn't a Capstick novel, just a well written book on rifles to use in Africa and one that all should read that intend on going to Africa. I don't know him real well, but have talked to him on several ocassions at my table in Dallas, and found him very well informed and certainly has enough experience to have credibility, you will realize right off the bat if you talk to him. A nice guy. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I agree with Ray. I have read the Boddington book and Woods book finding both worth the time and price. Also, Will's (Bill Stewart) book is has a good section that cuts to the chase on rifles and calibers. | |||
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Ahem. FYI, this month's Peterson's Hunting has an article by CB where he's hunting elephant with a Rigby 450 3 1/4. Took place last October. Guess that pretty much sums up his position on double rifles... | |||
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Yeh, Utah, the media, both in print, and airwaves, is surely the gold standard of journalism, with their unbiased, and truthful utterings! IMO, if it isn't happening they will simply make something up! Example: DAN RATHER,who reported, as true, on the phony documents, after he knew they were phony, because of HIS BIAS, ........or the Canadian PETER JENNINGS, who when giveing a speech on the constitution of the United Satates,at a collage, when asked why he had skipped over the 2nd amendment, told a studant that the 2nd amendment no longer applied! These are the people you are judging Boddington by? NO Bias there! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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I have read his book several times, and the imprssion I got was he told it the way it is, you either agreee or you don't I love double rifles, I use them, but what he said is simply a fact. They are not as accurate as a bolt gun, they are too heavy, they are too expensive, I doubt that they are 'needed" since most African game is not shot with them, and in todays Africa you always have plenty of backup... That said they are a nostalgic rifle, much like muzzle loaders or bows..They are fun to hunt with and a thing of beauty, I love them, I will always hunt with one but a good bolt gun is just as good. If you believe otherwise, you probably go to Disneyland 5 or 6 times a year. I have to go along with my old buddy (and I mean old) Will and Craig Boddington. Craig hunts a lot with a double btw. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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always remember craig can be had at a price. remember when he was the staunch advocate for the rogue river rifle company ?? as long as you pay for his ego ( and his bs ) you can own him. what a guy. and people actually believe what he writes. TOMO577 DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I've only met CB once, and was impressed with his positive attitude and straight forward manner. Did not seem to be full of himself and bull like many writers and journalists that I have known and worked with. Most of them were good story tellers, but like more like barflies who told other people's stories with a little color added. I did notice that he didn't wax melancholic over the past or old stuff, but was fully focused on the here and now, not the way things used to be, or for that matter how things used to be done. That I found to be insight into how he writes. I think that those of us that like African hunting rifles and like to hunt Africa should be appreciative of his efforts to bring a number of cartridges to popular attention, so we can buy ammo. There are a number of bigger bores that are available because he has written enough about them, done some videos and TV shows so that we can buy ammo here in the states. Just a few years ago, it was almost impossible to find 9.3x74 ammo for may old drilling, and, now, my new to me express rifle,in my part of the world. Now I can actually find it in gun shops, sometimes. A lot of that has been because he and writers like him have done all this scribbling that has spurred discussion and motivated many to go past the dreaming to the doing. This was my perspective from only one conversation, but MHO. Bfly Work hard and be nice, you never have enough time or friends. | |||
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Mac, You pretty much confirmed my point with that post! You don't have any problem with Michael Jordan saying whatever the heck he wants because he has no expectation of impartiality. OTOH, when the media does this (Rather & Jennings in your example) they get rightly reamed because they DO have an expectation of impartiality by the public. Further, such antics by the media are constantly eroding our confidence in anything you see in print. -UtahLefty | |||
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black fly ..... you give credit for the 9,3 ammo where little is due. the reason you can find it now is that the germans, merkel, heym & krieghoff, are selling a lot of rifles in that caliber in usa, also the chapuis. the makers, not the writers created the market for the ammo. without new rifles to put it into there would be little interest by any ammo maker to supply ammo for calibers not in production. TOMO577 DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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You gringos are tiring me always complaining about Boddington, if he said this if he said that...just don't read him and end of the problem. I will continue buying and reading his stuff beacause I enjoy it, just that. L | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Just read Boddingtons Safari rifles, Craig doesn't like doubles?
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