I will start searching for my first double later this year. I may never go to the Dark Continent because of back and back related problems. I have bolt rifles in 450 Ackley Magnum, 458 Lott, and am in the process of building a 416 Rigby.
I have not researched this yet and do not have a handle on it.
Thanks Butch

450 3 1/4" NE. You already have the bullet selection, and IMHO it's the best combination of power, gun weight, and moderate recoil (read "huntability") there is. Steeped in "Old African" tradition, as well.

Thanks,
I believe that you are probably right. With 3 neck surgeries, and 2 back surgeries, I probably don't need any more recoil than that.
Butch

If you ever do make it to Africa I'm with biebs on the 450 but if not a 9.3x74 will handle anything on NA and especially since you live in TX the 9.3 is a hog killing machine.

Even though the flavor of the month club is promoting the 450 there still are several orders of magnitude more 470's than 450's and always will be. The 450 offers nothing the 470 can't do better.

A 470 can be made just as light as a 450, but no one makes a lightweight 470 or 450. My one pound Glock 9mm operates at a higher pressure than my 470 but somehow the 470 still needs to weigh ten plus pounds. It's insanity!

Dies, brass, and ammunition will be easier to find for a 470 but the 450's .458 bullets wins one for the flavor club!

I should have my 9.3X62 bolt gun real soon. It is being rust blued at this time so I'm kinda covered there.
Butch

It is hard to select the best caliber for a double unless you know it's intended purpose. What is yours?

465H&H

Power wise not sure if there is any difference between a .470 and .450. They both toss out 500 grain slugs at about 2,100 fps.
.470's are certaintly more popular but with the "reintroduction" of the .450 I think sales will continue to climb due to many bullets for sale.
My money went for the .450 but I was very tempted to go with the .450/400 but it didnt seem a big enough step up from my 9,3x74R.

465H&H,
I have a tremendous "want", but not a need for any of my big calibers. I shoot them at the range and sometime for hogs. They are more for my satisfaction only.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from.
Butch

Butch, 450-400 3". gets my first vote.

Ifr you hust want to kull deer and pigs, 30-40 Krag, w/220s.

Keith

Butch,
Most 9.3X74Rs are light weight and have a sharp recoil to them.

Since I have a 450/400 3 inch I am biased.
Using RL-15 in these NE loads will help reduce the recoil.

500/416!
Peter.

Ditto 450/400 NE

Yeah, if you are just dinking around with it, go the 450/400 route. Nostalgia in spades. And a heck of a lot less recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
465H&H,
I have a tremendous "want", but not a need for any of my big calibers. I shoot them at the range and sometime for hogs. They are more for my satisfaction only.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from.
Butch

Then get what ever caliber you "want". Only you can decide that.

465H&H

This maybe a dumb thought but for the cost and time involved would anyone suggest Butch buy a Ruger No1 in 450/400 just to play with. Are these offered in 450 NE? Could sell them later and still only be out chicken feed compared to a double.

I understand that the bodinton series just came out in 450 NE.. It's going to be very popular especially when the regular ones come out sans the name ect.

.458 Win.

Plenty of power, easily loaded down.

Factory ammo will be available any place that needs such power. Anyone buying or inheriting it later will appreciate that.

450 and 458 doubles seem harder to find in the "lower" price range doubles. (and you know what I mean; the term lower is relative. If you are trying to avoid recoil, get the 450-400; it doesn't kick a bit in a Krieghoff since they are so heavy, and John Taylor says they have the most penetration of all the Nitros. I know from hog hunting, it will literally BLOW them down with any body hit. Of course so would other nitros with soft noses, but again, recoil is nil. But, the availability of .458 bullets is better than .410s....Get several Ruger #1s in each caliber.

450/400 3".

Works great on deer, wild pigs, caribou, black bear, zebra, and baboons.

Also, if you do get to Africa, it will handle the big stuff,cape buff lion and elephant.

Butch,

The 450-400 is tough to beat. Mine is a 3 1/4" and is a blast to shoot. Not much recoil.

I could change my mind, but it looks like it wil be a variation of the 450-400.
Thanks

Yep, the 450-400 3" is my vote!

butchlambert,

Are you decided on NEW or USED and NEWER vs. VINTAGE? My caliber is ballistically

equal or better to the 3" version as an FYI. Enjoy the selection process.

One of our forum members will be making from scratch double rifles. It will probably be a year before the first prototype is available.
Butch

450/400 will be my next rifle as well and plan on ordering it within a few months.
Can't decide on who will build it yet as I am still waiting on delivery of my Searcy 450 NE and want to judge it in person for a few months before considering another. Have narrowed it down to Searcy, Heym, or VC.

Butch order your rifle with 26 inch barrels. YOu will never regret it!

With the limitations you face and the stateside use you outline, I would have the double rifle made in 303 and equiped with a good set of QD mounts.

Editted to add: Or maybe in 30-30, with a set of good QD mounts.

And 26" barrels!

JPK

If Africa/DG is not in the plans, I think it would be tough to beat a 9,3x74 Chapuis. Great calibre for anything in the US and a fine rifle. If Africa happens, the same rifle will work in a pinch and be much more practical stateside than a .450 or bigger.

450/400 3" for my first vote, 450 3 1/4 for my second vote.

Ed

The 450/400 is a great round but it has been eclipsed by the more modern .500/.416. The .500/.416 is the very definition of what a modern double rifle caliber should be. It has a nearly 15 degree shoulder and it regulates at around 2330 fps with a 400-410 grain bullet which exceeds traditional double rifle velocity by 9%. The .500/.416 is the PERFECT DOUBLE RIFLE CARTRIDGE!. Get a .500/.416. It won't let you down and if you are already shooting a .458 Lott and a .450 Ackley Magnum, the recoil will be no problem.

Butch will probably not hunt Africa. This is my situation as well so this is something I understand.

The 500/416 seems to approximate the 416Rigby in a double. That would make the 500/416 an ideal african big game round. It is a new design and lacks that old romance, but I believe Dave is right in that this really appears to nail the ballistic sweet spot in killing vs handling. Proven by years of 416 Rigby use. No Hornady ammo though.

I also believe, the old 404Jeffrey 2100fps loading and the 450/400 while appropriate for much if not all African hunting is ideal for biggest baddest game in North America. If you dont plan to hunt Africa this would be a more traditional and practical choice. Hornady ammo available.

Or, if it was me, and I had the bucks, I might go as big as I could handle just for fun, even considering a 500NE (Hornady loaded) or 577NE ($$$ ammo).

I received a monthly e-mail from Heym NA last week. They have a nice 88 PH 450 / 400 (3") with what appears to be upgraded wood and 26" tubes. If I recall about $17K.
Click on their web site.

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
The 450/400 is a great round but it has been eclipsed by the more modern .500/.416. The .500/.416 is the very definition of what a modern double rifle caliber should be. It has a nearly 15 degree shoulder and it regulates at around 2330 fps with a 400-410 grain bullet which exceeds traditional double rifle velocity by 9%. The .500/.416 is the PERFECT DOUBLE RIFLE CARTRIDGE!. Get a .500/.416. It won't let you down and if you are already shooting a .458 Lott and a .450 Ackley Magnum, the recoil will be no problem.

I agree that the 500/416 is a great round. It will some day be a standard as the 470 is today. For me the trade up from my 450/400 isn't worth the extra recoil. I bought a 450/400 instead of a 470 because of recoil issues. If recoil isn't an issue then by all means get the 500/416.

I'd recommend the .600 NE. My rifle works so great with everything including down loaded ammo that still regulated I may sell all of my other doubles and just have a .600 or two or three. (But then again I'm a bit one-sided on the caliber). The bigger the bore the more forgiving as to regulation so the .600 will make a fine deer rifle!
Keep smiling, all.
Cal

How does one edit typos in our posts?
Cal

Recoil is an issue with me. I've grown past the macho stage. I only have to satisfy myself. I had rather shoot something that is second hand to me. If it were to be a safe queen the 500-416 would be great.
Butch

Cal, in the bottom right of your posts box theres a folder with a pencil eraser on the right of it. Click there.

First, let me say I've never owned or fired a double rifle. But that doesn't stop me from enjoying learning about them.

After reading all of Butch's posts, about the only caliber he isn't covered by is the 375 H&H. Either the flanged or the belted would seem to fit the requirements you're looking for.

Joe A.