The Accurate Reloading Forums
Best caliber choice?
10 April 2010, 01:45
butchlambertBest caliber choice?
I will start searching for my first double later this year. I may never go to the Dark Continent because of back and back related problems. I have bolt rifles in 450 Ackley Magnum, 458 Lott, and am in the process of building a 416 Rigby.
I have not researched this yet and do not have a handle on it.
Thanks Butch
10 April 2010, 01:51
Biebs450 3 1/4" NE. You already have the bullet selection, and IMHO it's the best combination of power, gun weight, and moderate recoil (read "huntability") there is. Steeped in "Old African" tradition, as well.
10 April 2010, 02:04
butchlambertThanks,
I believe that you are probably right. With 3 neck surgeries, and 2 back surgeries, I probably don't need any more recoil than that.
Butch
10 April 2010, 02:08
AkshooterIf you ever do make it to Africa I'm with biebs on the 450 but if not a 9.3x74 will handle anything on NA and especially since you live in TX the 9.3 is a hog killing machine.
DRSS
NRA life
AK Master Guide 124
Even though the flavor of the month club is promoting the 450 there still are several orders of magnitude more 470's than 450's and always will be. The 450 offers nothing the 470 can't do better.
A 470 can be made just as light as a 450, but no one makes a lightweight 470 or 450. My one pound Glock 9mm operates at a higher pressure than my 470 but somehow the 470 still needs to weigh ten plus pounds. It's insanity!
Dies, brass, and ammunition will be easier to find for a 470 but the 450's .458 bullets wins one for the flavor club!
-------------------------------
Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.
---------------------------------------
and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR
_________________________
"Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped.
“Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped.
red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com
_________________________
If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go.
10 April 2010, 02:24
butchlambertI should have my 9.3X62 bolt gun real soon. It is being rust blued at this time so I'm kinda covered there.
Butch
10 April 2010, 02:35
465H&HIt is hard to select the best caliber for a double unless you know it's intended purpose. What is yours?
465H&H
10 April 2010, 02:38
SnowwolfePower wise not sure if there is any difference between a .470 and .450. They both toss out 500 grain slugs at about 2,100 fps.
.470's are certaintly more popular but with the "reintroduction" of the .450 I think sales will continue to climb due to many bullets for sale.
My money went for the .450 but I was very tempted to go with the .450/400 but it didnt seem a big enough step up from my 9,3x74R.
My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
10 April 2010, 03:02
butchlambert465H&H,
I have a tremendous "want", but not a need for any of my big calibers. I shoot them at the range and sometime for hogs. They are more for my satisfaction only.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from.
Butch
10 April 2010, 03:17
Hog KillerButch, 450-400 3". gets my first vote.
Ifr you hust want to kull deer and pigs, 30-40 Krag, w/220s.

Keith
IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!!
------------------------------------
We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club
10 April 2010, 05:14
RustyButch,
Most 9.3X74Rs are light weight and have a sharp recoil to them.
Since I have a 450/400 3 inch I am biased.
Using RL-15 in these NE loads will help reduce the recoil.
Rusty
We Band of Brothers!
DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member
"I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends."
----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836
"I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841
"for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson
Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”
10 April 2010, 05:25
Peter500/416!
Peter.
Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
10 April 2010, 06:16
bigfatsDitto 450/400 NE
Jim
Yeah, if you are just dinking around with it, go the 450/400 route. Nostalgia in spades. And a heck of a lot less recoil.
-------------------------------
Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.
---------------------------------------
and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR
_________________________
"Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped.
“Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped.
red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com
_________________________
If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go.
10 April 2010, 20:46
465H&Hquote:
Originally posted by butchlambert:
465H&H,
I have a tremendous "want", but not a need for any of my big calibers. I shoot them at the range and sometime for hogs. They are more for my satisfaction only.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from.
Butch
Then get what ever caliber you "want". Only you can decide that.
465H&H
10 April 2010, 21:04
fourboreThis maybe a dumb thought but for the cost and time involved would anyone suggest Butch buy a Ruger No1 in 450/400 just to play with. Are these offered in 450 NE? Could sell them later and still only be out chicken feed compared to a double.
10 April 2010, 21:26
Mike BrooksI understand that the bodinton series just came out in 450 NE.. It's going to be very popular especially when the regular ones come out sans the name ect.
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Today's Quote:
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10 April 2010, 22:04
Jim C. <><.458 Win.
Plenty of power, easily loaded down.
Factory ammo will be available any place that needs such power. Anyone buying or inheriting it later will appreciate that.
450 and 458 doubles seem harder to find in the "lower" price range doubles. (and you know what I mean; the term lower is relative. If you are trying to avoid recoil, get the 450-400; it doesn't kick a bit in a Krieghoff since they are so heavy, and John Taylor says they have the most penetration of all the Nitros. I know from hog hunting, it will literally BLOW them down with any body hit. Of course so would other nitros with soft noses, but again, recoil is nil. But, the availability of .458 bullets is better than .410s....Get several Ruger #1s in each caliber.
11 April 2010, 12:52
N E 450 No2450/400 3".
Works great on deer, wild pigs, caribou, black bear, zebra, and baboons.
Also, if you do get to Africa, it will handle the big stuff,cape buff lion and elephant.
DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY
11 April 2010, 18:46
MikeBurkeButch,
The 450-400 is tough to beat. Mine is a 3 1/4" and is a blast to shoot. Not much recoil.
11 April 2010, 20:27
butchlambertI could change my mind, but it looks like it wil be a variation of the 450-400.
Thanks
12 April 2010, 04:42
Use Enough GunYep, the 450-400 3" is my vote!
12 April 2010, 05:56
BigFiveJackbutchlambert,
Are you decided on NEW or USED and NEWER vs. VINTAGE? My caliber is ballistically
equal or better to the 3" version as an FYI. Enjoy the selection process.
Jack
OH GOD! {Seriously, we need the help.}
12 April 2010, 06:35
butchlambertOne of our forum members will be making from scratch double rifles. It will probably be a year before the first prototype is available.
Butch
12 April 2010, 07:19
Snowwolfe450/400 will be my next rifle as well and plan on ordering it within a few months.
Can't decide on who will build it yet as I am still waiting on delivery of my Searcy 450 NE and want to judge it in person for a few months before considering another. Have narrowed it down to Searcy, Heym, or VC.
My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
12 April 2010, 16:39
RustyButch order your rifle with 26 inch barrels. YOu will never regret it!
Rusty
We Band of Brothers!
DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member
"I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends."
----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836
"I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841
"for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson
Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”
With the limitations you face and the stateside use you outline, I would have the double rifle made in 303 and equiped with a good set of QD mounts.
Editted to add: Or maybe in 30-30, with a set of good QD mounts.
And 26" barrels!
JPK

Free 500grains
12 April 2010, 19:04
tendramsIf Africa/DG is not in the plans, I think it would be tough to beat a 9,3x74 Chapuis. Great calibre for anything in the US and a fine rifle. If Africa happens, the same rifle will work in a pinch and be much more practical stateside than a .450 or bigger.
12 April 2010, 21:45
505ED450/400 3" for my first vote, 450 3 1/4 for my second vote.
Ed
DRSS Member
12 April 2010, 22:34
Dave BushThe 450/400 is a great round but it has been eclipsed by the more modern .500/.416. The .500/.416 is the very definition of what a modern double rifle caliber should be. It has a nearly 15 degree shoulder and it regulates at around 2330 fps with a 400-410 grain bullet which exceeds traditional double rifle velocity by 9%. The .500/.416 is the
PERFECT DOUBLE RIFLE CARTRIDGE!. Get a .500/.416. It won't let you down and if you are already shooting a .458 Lott and a .450 Ackley Magnum, the recoil will be no problem.

Dave
DRSS
Chapuis 9.3X74
Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL
Krieghoff 500/.416 NE
Krieghoff 500 NE
"Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer"
"If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition).
13 April 2010, 06:00
fourboreButch will probably not hunt Africa. This is my situation as well so this is something I understand.
The 500/416 seems to approximate the 416Rigby in a double. That would make the 500/416 an ideal african big game round. It is a new design and lacks that old romance, but I believe Dave is right in that this really appears to nail the ballistic sweet spot in killing vs handling. Proven by years of 416 Rigby use. No Hornady ammo though.
I also believe, the old 404Jeffrey 2100fps loading and the 450/400 while appropriate for much if not all African hunting is ideal for biggest baddest game in North America. If you dont plan to hunt Africa this would be a more traditional and practical choice. Hornady ammo available.
Or, if it was me, and I had the bucks, I might go as big as I could handle just for fun, even considering a 500NE (Hornady loaded) or 577NE ($$$ ammo).
14 April 2010, 19:18
eezridrI received a monthly e-mail from Heym NA last week. They have a nice 88 PH 450 / 400 (3") with what appears to be upgraded wood and 26" tubes. If I recall about $17K.
Click on their web site.
EZ
14 April 2010, 19:53
Rustyquote:
Originally posted by Dave Bush:
The 450/400 is a great round but it has been eclipsed by the more modern .500/.416. The .500/.416 is the very definition of what a modern double rifle caliber should be. It has a nearly 15 degree shoulder and it regulates at around 2330 fps with a 400-410 grain bullet which exceeds traditional double rifle velocity by 9%. The .500/.416 is the
PERFECT DOUBLE RIFLE CARTRIDGE!. Get a .500/.416. It won't let you down and if you are already shooting a .458 Lott and a .450 Ackley Magnum, the recoil will be no problem.
I agree that the 500/416 is a great round. It will some day be a standard as the 470 is today. For me the trade up from my 450/400 isn't worth the extra recoil. I bought a 450/400 instead of a 470 because of recoil issues. If recoil isn't an issue then by all means get the 500/416.
Rusty
We Band of Brothers!
DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member
"I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends."
----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836
"I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841
"for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson
Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”
14 April 2010, 20:00
cal pappasI'd recommend the .600 NE. My rifle works so great with everything including down loaded ammo that still regulated I may sell all of my other doubles and just have a .600 or two or three. (But then again I'm a bit one-sided on the caliber). The bigger the bore the more forgiving as to regulation so the .600 will make a fine deer rifle!
Keep smiling, all.
Cal
_______________________________
Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.comwww.CalPappas.blogspot.com1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
14 April 2010, 20:02
cal pappasHow does one edit typos in our posts?
Cal
_______________________________
Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.comwww.CalPappas.blogspot.com1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
14 April 2010, 20:15
butchlambertRecoil is an issue with me. I've grown past the macho stage. I only have to satisfy myself. I had rather shoot something that is second hand to me. If it were to be a safe queen the 500-416 would be great.
Butch
14 April 2010, 20:47
Mike BrooksCal, in the bottom right of your posts box theres a folder with a pencil eraser on the right of it. Click there.
NRA Life
ASSRA Life
DRSS
Today's Quote:
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
15 April 2010, 06:03
Joe A.First, let me say I've never owned or fired a double rifle. But that doesn't stop me from enjoying learning about them.
After reading all of Butch's posts, about the only caliber he isn't covered by is the 375 H&H. Either the flanged or the belted would seem to fit the requirements you're looking for.
Joe A.