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Anyone out their shooting a clark custom guns double? What do you think of the clark and what caliber are you shooting one in? I am looking to buy my first double rifle and I am hoping that the clarck is better rifle than the sabatti at about the same price range. | ||
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With all the great knowledge on this sight about double rifles know one has shoot a clark double. Has anyone seen one in person? What did you think? | |||
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I don't believe I've ever heard of them. Where are they from? Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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I believe Texas they are well known for building high end 1911 pistols and parts for 1911's and ruger 10/22's | |||
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This isn't a very good answer to your question, as I haven't seen one of their rifles. Their website shows a number of pics of sleeved Huglu shotguns. Double trigger Bobwhite and sideplated single trigger guns. I've seen a number of them (in shotgun form) and while they may be perfectly serviceable guns, I don't think they come close to the Sabatti in terms of attractiveness. Some of the Sabs have the ground muzzles, but the most common complaints seems to be cheap recoil pads and heavy trigger pulls. I doubt that a rifle based on a $600 or $800 Huglu will be much different and they certainly aren't very attractive. You might consider looking for a Sabatti without the ground muzzles and having a qualified person re-regulate the barrels if needed. Add a good recoil pad and a trigger job and you'd end up with a nice rifle. | |||
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I talked to JJ at champlin firearms and he told me that it was not possible To reregulate a sabatti, if you have heard otherwise then what gunsmith is doing it? | |||
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I have to jump in here and ask exactly why cannot a Sabatti be re-regulated? It was soldered together in the first place and why can't that solder be melted and the barrels moved a second time? (I know for a fact that it is soft solder; not brazed or silver soldered.) Sorry I am not contributing to your original question. | |||
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No problem at least you are trying to help. That was just what JJ told me, if they can be regulated then I would be interested in a sabatti in a 470, | |||
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I think that it's soldered with a high temp solder (silver solder or brazed) unlike most. It'd take a lot more heat causing more problems than it's worth. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Go back a few pages to the thread "Sabatti - Current Issues/Problems" and look at Doubleriflejack's post. He has taken several Sabatti barrel sets apart and resoldered/re-regulated them. He doesn't want to do any more gunsmithing but states that a good smith should be able to re-regulate the Sabatti barrels. It seems to be a rumor that the Sabs are silver soldered. | |||
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I believe DoubleRifleJack has re regulated his and did not find them to be hard soldered. _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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I just took a piece of brass shim stock and easily cut a line in the solder on my Sabatti and have used lots of solder in my life; it's definitely not silver or brass. | |||
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For what its worth, a Sabatti can be re-regulated. On a bad one the cost to correct most of the issues is about $2000.00 give or take. I am not saying they will ever be a H&H but they can be serviceable. However, the Clark is a very poor excuse for a double rifle. I have no problem with "SOME" shotguns being converted to rifles if it is done correctly. But the Clarks are very poorly executed! They don't even re-stock them. Building 1911's, and 10-22's simply does not qualify anyone to build a double. Clark should stick to what they know. I agree with MACD, the Sabatti is the better choice in this case. Dirk Schimmel D Schimmel LLC Dirk@DoubleRifles.Us 1-307-257-9447 Double rifles make Africa safe enough for bolt guns! | |||
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$5500 For the sabatti and $2000 to fix it, hum I think I would be better off looking for a used merkel. Maybe I should just save up and buy a searcy, what do you all think? | |||
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So 5000.00 for a Sabatti + 2000 for re-regulation=7000,at the DSC show I saw and handled several o/u DR's for around 7000,VC's,A Zoli to name a few,they were well built rifles,for my money I would rather have a 450/400 O/U in that price range than deal with a gun that is questionable  DRSS | |||
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460, This is where the fun starts. Not every Sabatti need 2k worth of work to become serviceable. Some are better than others and would need much less work. The question is how lucky will you be when you buy one. But if you have a choice between them and a Searcy or Merkel then either is the better choice in my opinion. And the Searcy would be the better of these two in my opinion. Bill73 has a good point. There are several other choices as well in the 7k range. Just depends on what you like. If it is possible handle the rifle before you buy and better yet shoot it. Dirk Schimmel D Schimmel LLC Dirk@DoubleRifles.Us 1-307-257-9447 Double rifles make Africa safe enough for bolt guns! | |||
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460 I agree with Bill73! The Zoli 450-400NE if an O/U is what you want it is as good as it gets in that price point. However I would far rather have a side by side and I think you would be far better served with a clean used Merkel, or Chapuis for just a little more that either Sabatti, or the Clark. Why buy a double rifle that is of questioable quality when you know that with the Merkel or Chapuis you will have a dependable double rifle that will hold it's value, and outlast your grand kids. I simply do not understand the mind set of folks who buy sub quality rifles hoping they will get one of the good ones. A brand that you have to keep your fingers crossed that it will hit someplace in the same county with both barrels is not a well thought out purchase,IMO!! ...............................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Thanks for all the info, I think I will keep saving and get a field grade searcy in 470. The searcy is the double i've been lusting for, but that means I will not be able to go to africa for another 5 years but at least I will have the double of my dreams when I go. | |||
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Good advice. The 9.3x74R is a caliber that can be used in the USA. Buy one, shoot it, hunt with it. It can be used for non DG in Africa, and, in fact, with the right bullets, has been used on Buff. See posts by others. Also you can get the caliber in an O/U eg. Tikka which is much cheaper. BTW Clark is one of the top 1911 gunsmiths, but I know nothing about his double rifles. Why not talk to him? Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Thank all of you for your input, I already own more than enough rifles to hunt any big game animal in north america, I want my double to be a true african dgr! I have decided to save the money and buy a searcy field grade. | |||
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l would be keen to hear a little more about Clark double rifles from those who know about DR's. l spoke with Clark a little the other month about his doubles. He seamed very passionate about his build quality and regulation. Cheers Jack | |||
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460 Wby shooter "I talked to JJ at champlin firearms and he told me that it was not possible To re-regulate a sabatti, if you have heard otherwise then what gunsmith is doing it?" I also contacted JJ Perodeau in an effort to understand exactly what he is saying, and why. This is the answer he gave me: "I twice tried to regulate Sabatti double rifles, and failed, because I believe that they did not have a mid- point regulation wedge, and they often have muzzle filing, a factory attempt to regulate (fine tune) them." "Because of this, I stay away from them." JJ is, of course, 100% correct in what he said. He did not say that they cannot be re-regulated; he did say that he stays away from them for the two reasons he gave above. Notice too, though, that he said nothing at all about Sabatti double barrels being silver soldered or brazed together, as some have claimed; THEY ARE NOT. JJ said that Sabatti doubles DO NOT have the mid- point regulation wedge, and is correct, but several other modern double rifles do not have one either, and I have in past years worked on several other classic European doubles that did not have one as well. That issue, no mid- point regulation wedge, is easily solved; one simply needs to make a mid-point regulation wedge and install it, eventually soldering it in place, all normal practice for anyone regulating a double rifle. For those who want a detailed explanation for all this process, it is explained in understandable detail in W. Ellis Brown's book, now in 2nd edition, converting or making double rifles from shotgun actions. | |||
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I must have misunderstood what JJ was saying, I am no expert when it comes to doubles but I am willing to learn. I am going to buy the searcy and I will need to learn the fine points of loading for doubles and hope learn form the experts on this sight. | |||
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Maybe JJ is trying to tell us to not expect, say, Heym type performance from a Sabatti any more than one could expect a Volkswagon to perform on equal terms with a BMW. It could possibly be done but it is not worth the effort. | |||
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DRJ, I realize $5k is considered a cheap price for a New S/S double rifle, but $5,000.00 USD is not a small amount no matter what kind of rifle one is buying, and it should at least certainly be regulated at that price. Just one question here! How does that price justify not properly regulating their rifles? With that thought in mind, how does one justify buying a rifle that there is a great possibility that it will need to be re-regulated before it will shoot properly, that is, if it was ever regulated in the first place? IMO, it matters not why the regulation was not done properly at the makers,because cost cutting doesn't justify it simply not being done properly, and the fact that it wasn't done says volumes about this particular double rifle maker. Sir I have some 54 years experience with double rifles of just about every maker,since I bought my first double rifle in 1958, and there is only one other brand that has the same low level of reputation consistency in the most important area of quality being REGULATION as does Sabatti. That is the Winchester Grand European O/U double rifle. A double rifle that is not regulated properly is not worth any price, much less $5,000! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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And there are some here that just replaced the recoil pad with a $30 one from limbsaver and are very happy with how their Sabattis shoot. Some have even taken elephants and buffalo with them!  If the muzzle is not ground on the newer ones, buy it and shoot it. Cabelas is quick to refund if there is a problem. "The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation." "The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln | |||
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From what I understand they were. Are they still? How long will they be that easy to work with? _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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Call them and ask! NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Jack, Thanks for going to the source and clarifying for all of us.  While no one (including you) is making excuses for the manner in which Sabatti "regulates" their doubles, the information you just provided gives those who have a Sabatti and otherwise happy with it, the option of having it properly regulated. I have no idea what that would cost but if not exorbitant might still make it cost effective.  NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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You just cannot get a good double on the cheap. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I wasn't really asking. More just making the observation that they may not always be so accommodating. Although, that said, they'd probably have a hard time not making good on it in the long run. By supplying the target with it they are pretty much making a claim that A: It has been regulated and B: it will shoot at least this good. Might be a lot of trouble to get to that point though. Also, how does the fore end hook not act as a mid wedge? Clarification: BY NO MEANS do I mean to sound like I'm questioning JJ. I just don't see how the hook mounting wouldn't be sturdy enough to provide that effect and want to learn. _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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Their web site lists $600.00 (plus ammo) for regulating a double. I think that's just working up a proper load to make it work though. Sounds like a good opportunity for a good gunsmith to figure out the trick to it and be the guru for tweaking Sabattis. _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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If JJ won't work on it...I don't want it. I think Tony's view cuts to the heart of the issue. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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Mac, "However I would far rather have a side by side" Just hold it on it's side shoot it gangster fashion Bill Member DSC,DRSS,NRA,TSRA A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. -Mark Twain There ought to be one day - just one – when there is open season on Congressmen. ~Will Rogers~ | |||
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I spoke with JJ too and that is not quite exactly what he said, at least not to me. What he told me is if the barrels had the dremel treatment he could not regulate. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Jorge, How long ago was that? If that's the case then, to me, that changes the game a bit. If everything else on the Sabatti is decent quality then, even with the added money for re regulating (assuming you even get one that is crap), it still seems like a decent deal. _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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It seems that there is a fair amount of interest in the Sabatti re-regulation issue. It might be a good idea for someone who is seriously interested to speak to JJ and get a definitive statement as to what he will or will not do. (Or maybe can or cannot) I've read on this forum that the Winchester O/U double rifles couldn't be re-regulated because they are silver soldered. However, JJ re-regulated my 7x57 for me several years ago. It cost me about $100 above the regular price because more work was involved, but he did it. Not trying to speak for JJ, but my guess is that the muzzle ground rifle barrels point so far off that they would require a lot of bending to be properly aligned. Otherwise they would not have required grinding! At a minimum, I think they would have to be shortened to remove the ground portion and them properly regulated. That's why I suggested earlier that if I wanted a big bore Sabatti I would only buy a rifle that had not been ground. My own .45/70 has been ground, but it shoots so well that I decided to leave it as is. JJ's regulation price actual is for actual regulation, not load development. When I sent him my Winchester he asked for several boxes of the ammo of my choice to regulate it with. He returned the unused ammo and the brass. Again, maybe someone could get a clear statement from JJ or perhaps he could post it if he reads this forum. | |||
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Back in October I think and yes I definitively agree they are a great value if you get a good one. Mine shot very well but like I've said many times, I just could not live with that grounded left crown. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Thanks, so it wasn't that long ago really. I've been also seriously considering one as the basic model would fit my styles of hunting perfectly I think. I've e mail the Gun Library manager at one location in particular and have assurances, in writing, that the muzzles and rifling are intact and unground. In any case the first thing to check when the gun arrives is whether or not there's grinding. If there is put it back in the box and send it back. _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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Supercracker, I also recommend you look at the test target. Cabelas has been outstanding in standing by the product and gave me a full refund even after a few hundred rounds of firing, as I never even noticed the grinding until one of our members pointe it out to me and all of us. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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