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Outstanding. If they'll stand behind it to that degree, even if you have to show your ass a bit, then it's not a bad deal at all. No real risk in the grand scheme of things. If you were really determined you could just keep exchanging guns til you get a good one. lol _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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For information, My .450 Sabatti is ground exactly 3/8th of an inch back, so it would need to be trimmed that amount to get clean muzzles from which to start proper re-regulation. I might just do it. Front sight will need to be shortened but it will still fit in the slot. | |||
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If you look through the Cabelas Gun Library probably a third of the Sabattis listed have 23 5/8" listed as barrel length. _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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Super, the forend hanger is in the wrong place for what a mid-barrel wedge plays. All double rifles do not require a mid-barrel wedge to be regulated properly. The mid-barrel wedge is used by makers who like to regulate with no ribs between the barrels. The mid-barrel wedge takes the place of the of the ribs to avoid excess harmonics that is dampened by the ribs tying the barrels together. This is likely the reason JJ made that statement about the Sabatti! To properly regulate a double that has had it’s muzzles ground will require shortening of the barrels, and would also require the removal of the front sight ramp, and shortening of the ribs, this also requires the removal of the ribs as well. Then the mid-barrel wedge would be installed so the rifle could be regulated then all this re-installed and likely re-blacked. This would be a very expensive operation, and by the time all this was paid for you could have bought a double rifle that was regulated in the first place!
JJ will not re-regulate a double rifle with hard brazed wedges in the barrels, regardless of who made it! I’m not saying he has never done it, just that he told me that he wouldn’t do my Winchester Grand European 9.3X74R O/U double rifle! That being said, That Winchester can be re-regulated but it requires a lot of work to avoid destroying the barrels from high heat. This can be avoided by removing the barrel ribs and cutting the front wedge length wise down the middle on a band saw, leaving half of the brazed wedge on each barrel, then installing a thin tapered wedge between both halves of the wedge and soft solder it in place. The heat required to soft solder this new wedge between the halves of the old wedge will not harm the very thin barrels, and the trial and error regulation can begin. After the regulation is finished the side ribs are re-installed and sights re-cut for the new regulation.
Jorge, as we have seen with the rifle that started this thread and many others on this double rifle, the test target means absolutely nothing in many cases. Even with very expensive, properly regulated double rifles the test target only means the rifle fire two shot there once, nothing more and is simply a customer pleaser. A true test target should show the individual barrel four shot groups with the center of each barrels group indicated in relation to the other barrel, the sight hold on the target. The reason the two shot test target is placed in the box with very well regulated double rifle for the customer, is because they trust their regulator who signs it. The regulator at Saqbatti is a guy who places the barrels in a jig and solders it together, then two shots are fired each time till they get two that are is the same state, and call it good. A true test target would be an eight shot composite group with all shots fired from a cool barrel, with each bullet hole identified as to the barrel it came from, and with the exact center of each barrel’s individual barrel group marked and the aiming point of the front sight hold on the target indicated. That test target would tell you something. I assure you a true test target will never be supplied with a Sabatti! I might buy a 450NE Sabtti and shorten the barrels to 18 inches, regulated and install large night sights, and a pistol combat light under the barrels to make a “GO INTO THE WEEDS” follow-up gun for black bear and such! ………………………………………………………..  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I've NEVER seen a "true" test target then. All the ones I've seen from H&H on down only had TWO holes and in fact the Sabbati had four shots in the test target and mine shot better than that. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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It seems like this is their biggest selling point.  ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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That's what I said nobody supplies a proper test target! What I am saying is test targets that ARE supplied are useless,and are only customer pleasers, nothing more! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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I have known JJ for years and consider him a friend. He is very capable of regulating a Sabatti or any other DR. He could build a new set of barrels from scratch if needed. There are 2 issues... 1) It would not be cost effective and 2) He is not interested in becoming the "go-to-guy" for regulating Sabatti DRs. JJ stays burried 50-100 guns deep in projects repairing Rigby, Purdey, H&H, Grant, Lang, Boss, Hollis, etc... He has no interest in getting everyone's Sabatti business. This doesn't make him arrogant. He earned this status. He very seldom works on bolt guns anymore, because he said there are plenty of qualified gunbuilders to work on them. He quit building complete guns for sale years ago because he simply doesn't have time. This doesn't make him a bad guy... It's just human nature. Lets say you are an auto mechanic of high reputation for repairing exotic sports cars, and you have 50 cars in your lot waiting for repair(Ferrari, Lambo, Lotus, Bugatti, etc... Your neighbor needs help welding a hole in the muffler of his Kia. You help him out. He tells everyone what a great job you did. Now you have 2000 KIAs in your lot waiting for muffler repair...on your back, rust in your eyes and hair, and not enjoying your work as much as you did before. Not to put words in his mouth, but I know him well. ND  Stephen Grant 500BPE Joseph Harkom 450BPE | |||
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Does his hourly rate change with the value of the rifle he works on? If it doesn't then what's the difference between working on a sabatti or an h&h, I though money is money no matter what you work on.  not trying to be a jerk but I don't see the difference, JJ is a great gunsmith and that is why I asked him abouy the sabatti.  | |||
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460, His rate doesn't change, but his interest level does. A mutual friend left a Parker 16 bore with him for restoration. JJ didn't touch it for 18 months, due to lack of interest. He has all the business he can handle, so he has to pass on some jobs. Under these conditions, he picks the jobs he is interested in. The price one would pay to have a Sabatti regulated by JJ, would push the investment cost past the value. He is not being arrogant...just practical. ND Stephen Grant 500BPE Joseph Harkom 450BPE | |||
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A very fine description of the man, and his abilities! .........................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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JJ he has through his hard work and dedication to excellence has earned the kind of reputation many makers wish they had. I don’t know for sure but I would bet he has at least 2 years backlog maybe more. He has earned the right to work on what interest him. I am sure if we did a search we can find some one who can and wants to work on a Sabatti. Bill Member DSC,DRSS,NRA,TSRA A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. -Mark Twain There ought to be one day - just one – when there is open season on Congressmen. ~Will Rogers~ | |||
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