quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
Did you happen to pull the triggers when it was disassembled / broken down?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
Ok did you recock it before you put the barrels back on the frame?

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Good question from Mike.
Look at your brass and notice the primers. They will tell you if the pins were broken by the indentations.
If you pulled the triggers on a disassembled rifle you can used the for end to recock the cocking levers. It is hard to do but must be done to reassemble the rifle.
I don't know about Butch, his rifles, or his warranty. My interest is only in vintage doubles from the UK. And, I must state in all the posts and threads here on AR about problems with new rifles, I really don't see many complaints of the old timers.
Bottom line is this: if Butch won't take care of the problem send the rifle to Griffin and Howe or JJ at Champlins. They, and Keith Kearcher are the only 'smiths who I would trust with a vintage double (although there are more). The pins can be replaced and this is not a difficult job for an experienced gun smith.
Good luck.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by 505ED:
If you need a good smith on double guns...send it to H2Oboy...Dirk is a great smith.

Ed

quote:

I emailed Butch and he said the only thing he can think of is that, when putting the gun back together (from being broken down)....if the pins are relaxed forward, it is possible for the ejectors to hit the pins when closing the action and break them.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
I hope you have learned. NEVER drop the hammers on a double unless you have a loaded cartridge in the chambers. Don't use snap caps to play with your gun. Snap caps are for a just in case someone pulls the trigger on an empty gun. Don't pull the triggers when closing the gun to release the springs, this ain't a bolt gun. If springs are properly made they can stay loaded for ever. Never pull trigger with the barrels removed unless you are going the disassemble the action. No reason to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
I hope you have learned. NEVER drop the hammers on a double unless you have a loaded cartridge in the chambers. Don't use snap caps to play with your gun. Snap caps are for a just in case someone pulls the trigger on an empty gun. Don't pull the triggers when closing the gun to release the springs, this ain't a bolt gun. If springs are properly made they can stay loaded for ever. Never pull trigger with the barrels removed unless you are going the disassemble the action. No reason to do it.

This is the first I've ever heard of this. Interesting.

I've read countless posts here of guys practicing with their snap caps, and I've never heard any of them say they broke their firing pins by doing this.

I appreciate all the input guys, keep it coming.

And regarding re-cocking prior to reassembly....I do not understand how to do this. I tried Cal's method of using the fore end....but it seems impossible. There does not seem to be anything for the cocking levers to grab onto.

quote:

Originally posted by JDA-CO:
I've used snap-caps for literally years and practice shouldering my DR's and pulling both triggers. I've also used bone method when my DR's are disassembled and never had to re-cock prior to putting the thing back together.

I've never had an issue whatsoever!

I'm not experienced enough to add on the technical side, but I've never had problem one with a 2-trigger DR and shooting them with caps or bone.

This gun isn't that old, and based on the condition, it could not have been fired that much. Then consider the other issues this gun has, wouldn't it stand to reason that this is a quality issue?

Please don't misunderstand my post here, I'm not trying to stir the pot (not aspiring to be like Shootacow).

EDIT: I think Searcy owes it to the owner to support his product (especially when his wares are thousands of dollars and the issue could be related to quality) Very disappointing that you have to deal with this.

quote:

Originally posted by JDA-CO:
New Guy: I'm curious how you would handle this issue if the gun in question was a Heym and ES was not the original owner? AND, I'm referring to both the opening lever being off center and the broken firing pins?

Again, not trying to stir the pot, I'm just curious how you guy's would handle this situation.

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by JDA-CO:
New Guy: I'm curious how you would handle this issue if the gun in question was a Heym and ES was not the original owner? AND, I'm referring to both the opening lever being off center and the broken firing pins?

Again, not trying to stir the pot, I'm just curious how you guy's would handle this situation.

Thanks!

I find your questions to be strange. The opening lever being off center is caused by wear. It will happen to any double rifle used enough over the years. Why would it be the obligation of the builder to fix something that is due to normal wear and tear? Is it the builder's obligation to refinish the stock too if it becomes worn through use? To reblack the barrels? Same on the firing pins. Firing pins break. Hence the reason why many rifles have a grip cap that can store replacements. Why would a maker take on a lifetime obligation to address wear and tear items like that? I think you protest to much, seems like you are in fact trying to stir up controversy. Take your ten year old car into the dealer and tell him the tires are worn out and ask him to replace them and make the situation right . . .

quote:

Originally posted by BLS:
Wade,
I told you what I thought was the problem and agreed to fix it for you, So why the hell are you on here asking for answers, if you want my help then send the rifle to me. No one here is going to make the situation go away.

quote:

Originally posted by BLS:
Wade,
I told you what I thought was the problem and agreed to fix it for you, So why the hell are you on here asking for answers, if you want my help then send the rifle to me. No one here is going to make the situation go away.

quote:

Originally posted by JDA-CO:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by JDA-CO:
New Guy: I'm curious how you would handle this issue if the gun in question was a Heym and ES was not the original owner? AND, I'm referring to both the opening lever being off center and the broken firing pins?

Again, not trying to stir the pot, I'm just curious how you guy's would handle this situation.

Thanks!

I find your questions to be strange. The opening lever being off center is caused by wear. It will happen to any double rifle used enough over the years. Why would it be the obligation of the builder to fix something that is due to normal wear and tear? Is it the builder's obligation to refinish the stock too if it becomes worn through use? To reblack the barrels? Same on the firing pins. Firing pins break. Hence the reason why many rifles have a grip cap that can store replacements. Why would a maker take on a lifetime obligation to address wear and tear items like that? I think you protest to much, seems like you are in fact trying to stir up controversy. Take your ten year old car into the dealer and tell him the tires are worn out and ask him to replace them and make the situation right . . .

Hey Mike - If I've said something here that appears to be stoking controversy, It is certainly not my intent and I apologize.

The thing that bugs me is that this seems like a "young" gun to be having these sorts of issues.

The only example I can think of is our own business that manufactures heavy construction equipment. Over the years we receive metal that is too brittle or combed in some manner and breaks. It doesn't matter to us how old the machine is, we guarantee quality for lifetime against defects. We fix it. Period.

All I'm saying is that I think Searcy has an obligation to look at the gun and determine if this quality issue or a "usage/wear" issue. no more, no less.

quote:

Originally posted by JDA-CO:

quote:

Originally posted by BLS:
Wade,
I told you what I thought was the problem and agreed to fix it for you, So why the hell are you on here asking for answers, if you want my help then send the rifle to me. No one here is going to make the situation go away.

If this is true - Then I owe an apology to Butch and I'll keep my mouth shut. Sorry for swallowing one side of the story Butch.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by JDA-CO:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by JDA-CO:
New Guy: I'm curious how you would handle this issue if the gun in question was a Heym and ES was not the original owner? AND, I'm referring to both the opening lever being off center and the broken firing pins?

Again, not trying to stir the pot, I'm just curious how you guy's would handle this situation.

Thanks!

I find your questions to be strange. The opening lever being off center is caused by wear. It will happen to any double rifle used enough over the years. Why would it be the obligation of the builder to fix something that is due to normal wear and tear? Is it the builder's obligation to refinish the stock too if it becomes worn through use? To reblack the barrels? Same on the firing pins. Firing pins break. Hence the reason why many rifles have a grip cap that can store replacements. Why would a maker take on a lifetime obligation to address wear and tear items like that? I think you protest to much, seems like you are in fact trying to stir up controversy. Take your ten year old car into the dealer and tell him the tires are worn out and ask him to replace them and make the situation right . . .

Hey Mike - If I've said something here that appears to be stoking controversy, It is certainly not my intent and I apologize.

The thing that bugs me is that this seems like a "young" gun to be having these sorts of issues.

The only example I can think of is our own business that manufactures heavy construction equipment. Over the years we receive metal that is too brittle or combed in some manner and breaks. It doesn't matter to us how old the machine is, we guarantee quality for lifetime against defects. We fix it. Period.

All I'm saying is that I think Searcy has an obligation to look at the gun and determine if this quality issue or a "usage/wear" issue. no more, no less.

Why do you say this is a "young" rifle? I have no clue when it was manufactured, and even if I knew that, I have no clue how it has been used and by whom since it was manufactured. There just seems to be an insinuation that in some way this is Butch's fault or responsibility and I am not sure the basis on which that insinuation is being made.

quote:

Originally posted by JDA-CO:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by JDA-CO:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by JDA-CO:
New Guy: I'm curious how you would handle this issue if the gun in question was a Heym and ES was not the original owner? AND, I'm referring to both the opening lever being off center and the broken firing pins?

Again, not trying to stir the pot, I'm just curious how you guy's would handle this situation.

Thanks!

I find your questions to be strange. The opening lever being off center is caused by wear. It will happen to any double rifle used enough over the years. Why would it be the obligation of the builder to fix something that is due to normal wear and tear? Is it the builder's obligation to refinish the stock too if it becomes worn through use? To reblack the barrels? Same on the firing pins. Firing pins break. Hence the reason why many rifles have a grip cap that can store replacements. Why would a maker take on a lifetime obligation to address wear and tear items like that? I think you protest to much, seems like you are in fact trying to stir up controversy. Take your ten year old car into the dealer and tell him the tires are worn out and ask him to replace them and make the situation right . . .

Hey Mike - If I've said something here that appears to be stoking controversy, It is certainly not my intent and I apologize.

The thing that bugs me is that this seems like a "young" gun to be having these sorts of issues.

The only example I can think of is our own business that manufactures heavy construction equipment. Over the years we receive metal that is too brittle or combed in some manner and breaks. It doesn't matter to us how old the machine is, we guarantee quality for lifetime against defects. We fix it. Period.

All I'm saying is that I think Searcy has an obligation to look at the gun and determine if this quality issue or a "usage/wear" issue. no more, no less.

Why do you say this is a "young" rifle? I have no clue when it was manufactured, and even if I knew that, I have no clue how it has been used and by whom since it was manufactured. There just seems to be an insinuation that in some way this is Butch's fault or responsibility and I am not sure the basis on which that insinuation is being made.

Mike: Relatively speaking, Butch hasn't been building rifles that long. As such, I assumed this gun was not that old.

There are a ton of things that can cause wear; soft metal, abuse, etc. My only point was that Searcy should look at the rifle and determine what caused the issues.

Then I read that he had agreed to do that and I apologized to him for understanding (from another thread) that he wasn't warranting used rifles.

In my mind the issue is moot - I didn't have all the facts and ran my mouth... All I can do is say sorry...

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
Okay....so I have run into a hiccup with my new-to-me Searcy .500 NE. Some of you saw the thread I started a couple weeks ago about the firing pins sticking. I purchased a bushing tool last week and was able remove the bushings and get to the firing pins....where I discovered my problem.

BOTH firing pins are broken!! They are both broken in exactly the same place.....at the base of the stem/nipple (or whatever it's called) where it attaches to the fatter base (rear portion) of the pin. Both appear to have broken where this piece was soldered. As a result, both pins still remain functional. When the bushings are screwed in, you cannot tell anything is wrong. There is no damage to the front of the pins. The pins will not fall out the front, due to a slight "rim" around the broken area (I'm assuming this is solder build up).

I emailed Butch and he said the only thing he can think of is that, when putting the gun back together (from being broken down)....if the pins are relaxed forward, it is possible for the ejectors to hit the pins when closing the action and break them. I don't know if that is what occurred or not. I shot 10 rounds through the rifle 2 weeks ago without any problems, and honestly, I'm not sure if the pins were broken at that time or not. I did not notice the "sticking pins" until after that. I suspect they might have been broken all along. I had the rifle inspected by Dustin Mount immediately after purchase, but he did not remove the firing pins (I was present for the entire inspection).

Does anyone have any idea how this happened? Has anyone else encountered a similar problem? This has me baffled and very frustrated. I am a very careful gun owner, and have never broken a firing pin on any firearm I have ever owned....but I also have never owned a double.

Since I bought this rifle, I have not dry fired it at all without snap caps. The rifle came with some nice brass snap caps, but I also purchased four of the A-zoom snap caps. Also, when breaking the rifle down to put in the case, I use a horn block (which came with the rifle) to snap the firing pins on.

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated. Obviously I have to get this fixed, but before I spend many hundreds of dollars doing that, I'd like to find out what the problem is so it doesn't happen again. I stretched pretty far financially just to buy the rifle, so I cannot afford to just dump money into it.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
Okay....so I have run into a hiccup with my new-to-me Searcy .500 NE. Some of you saw the thread I started a couple weeks ago about the firing pins sticking. I purchased a bushing tool last week and was able remove the bushings and get to the firing pins....where I discovered my problem.

BOTH firing pins are broken!! They are both broken in exactly the same place.....at the base of the stem/nipple (or whatever it's called) where it attaches to the fatter base (rear portion) of the pin. Both appear to have broken where this piece was soldered. As a result, both pins still remain functional. When the bushings are screwed in, you cannot tell anything is wrong. There is no damage to the front of the pins. The pins will not fall out the front, due to a slight "rim" around the broken area (I'm assuming this is solder build up).

I emailed Butch and he said the only thing he can think of is that, when putting the gun back together (from being broken down)....if the pins are relaxed forward, it is possible for the ejectors to hit the pins when closing the action and break them. I don't know if that is what occurred or not. I shot 10 rounds through the rifle 2 weeks ago without any problems, and honestly, I'm not sure if the pins were broken at that time or not. I did not notice the "sticking pins" until after that. I suspect they might have been broken all along. I had the rifle inspected by Dustin Mount immediately after purchase, but he did not remove the firing pins (I was present for the entire inspection).

Does anyone have any idea how this happened? Has anyone else encountered a similar problem? This has me baffled and very frustrated. I am a very careful gun owner, and have never broken a firing pin on any firearm I have ever owned....but I also have never owned a double.

Since I bought this rifle, I have not dry fired it at all without snap caps. The rifle came with some nice brass snap caps, but I also purchased four of the A-zoom snap caps. Also, when breaking the rifle down to put in the case, I use a horn block (which came with the rifle) to snap the firing pins on.

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated. Obviously I have to get this fixed, but before I spend many hundreds of dollars doing that, I'd like to find out what the problem is so it doesn't happen again. I stretched pretty far financially just to buy the rifle, so I cannot afford to just dump money into it.

IMO,if you have never broken a firing pin you really dont have that much experience with rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
There is a difference between shooting a rifle and SHOOTING a rifle.Shootaway is a above anything a serious rifle shooter!

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Wade

I would send the rifle back to Butch.

Have him check over the whole rifle, and if it needs it tighten up the locking areas, ie put it back on face if necessary.

It will be money well spent, in the long run.

quote:

Yes, but only while using the horn block for the firing pins to hit....and I was sure to apply some pressure as well before dropping the pins.