I am interested in hearing comments from Sabatti owners that have been using their rifles. What are your impressions? How does the gun shoot relative to its regulation target from Sabatti? What is the recoil like? Any mechanical or other issues that have surfaced? I know that there are many looking to hear some feedback from users. Thanks!

Mike,

I should have mine in 450 NE in about two weeks. I will post my impressions in answer to all of your questions just about as soon as I have it in hand.

In the meantime, I think there are two or three threads related to working up loads in one of these doubles with answers to some of your questions.

Hi Mike,

I have 12 rounds of Hornady DGS through my 500 NE.

My conclusion is that at the 9.5# it is too light for the cartridge and the recoil is a real thump compared to my Ruger RSM .458Lott. I will likely add a mercury recoil reducer to increase the weight and hopefully that will improve things. It was regulated with Knoch and I have been unable to match the regulation target, but again, adding the weight of the MRR may improve my shooting. The rifle is very "stiff" and as it is my first DR I am not sure if this is normal but assume it will loosen-up with more rounds down range. The wood (hand checkered) and engraving (machined) is really very nice and it is an attractive rifle. The recoil pad could be better and I will also be replacing it.

I have spoken to Cabela's about the weight and recoil pad on these larger caliber Sabatti's, but don't know if they are motivated to order these changes from Sabatti. I am still dealing with them on my rifle. My feeling is that a new DR, even at the Sabatti price of $5,500 w/ejectors, should not require a re-regulation at additional cost to the buyer.

I am very satisfied with the price of these DR's and in the 450 NE calibers they should be an exceptional buy, as 9.5# should be very usable in that caliber range.

If they made the little one in 405 Win, they would already have my money, although I could live with a 45-70. I also like the looks of the "cheaper" model compared to the big bores with all tha scroll work. I'm not much for squiggles whether hand done or machine. If they made the plain jane in a 9 pound 450-400, that would get my money too.

I'm playing with the 500N right now. What powders and bullets have you tried to get your 500 to regulate?

I bought one of the 9.3x74R and love it. Fit and finish is great and it shoots as good or better than the test target. The 15.25 LOP fits me very well and seems to recoil less than I expected. I plan on picking up 450/400 or a 450 NE when I get back from Africa this year, if I have any money left.

I have a 450NE. Beautiful gun, great wood and well built with nice blueing and attractive
scroll work. This gun is just under 10 lbs. I am not recoil sensative and shoot the gun a lot. After over 150 rounds through it I find it a pleasure to shoot and it is becomming my favorite shooter. It is WELL regulated ( a huge concern fore me before buying it ) and from a rest at 50 yards it will shoot a six round group ( 3R-3L ) into about 1 1/2 " x 2 " box with full handloads and 480 gr. Woodliegh bullets. It will also shoot reduced loads to same point of aim with 350 gr. Hornady bullets.
I was hesitatnt to buy as it was my first DR and wondered how they could build a good rifle at that price but when I saw it and handled it at SCI in Reno I bought it on the spot and have not regretted it one minute. Either they have found production methods that others have not OR many other makers are charging so much because they can. On the last issue I am not sure but I can say that the Sabatti is quality and maybe the best buy in the DR market as far as value goes. Don't hesitate - buy one and enjoy it.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Hi Mike,

I have 12 rounds of Hornady DGS through my 500 NE.

My conclusion is that at the 9.5# it is too light for the cartridge and the recoil is a real thump compared to my Ruger RSM .458Lott. I will likely add a mercury recoil reducer to increase the weight and hopefully that will improve things. It was regulated with Knoch and I have been unable to match the regulation target, but again, adding the weight of the MRR may improve my shooting. The rifle is very "stiff" and as it is my first DR I am not sure if this is normal but assume it will loosen-up with more rounds down range. The wood (hand checkered) and engraving (machined) is really very nice and it is an attractive rifle. The recoil pad could be better and I will also be replacing it.

I have spoken to Cabela's about the weight and recoil pad on these larger caliber Sabatti's, but don't know if they are motivated to order these changes from Sabatti. I am still dealing with them on my rifle. My feeling is that a new DR, even at the Sabatti price of $5,500 w/ejectors, should not require a re-regulation at additional cost to the buyer.

I am very satisfied with the price of these DR's and in the 450 NE calibers they should be an exceptional buy, as 9.5# should be very usable in that caliber range.

Mike, this sounds like your kind of 500!

I have a confession to make, I bought a Sabatti but have been struggling with feelings of inadequacy for not paying three times the price for a double rifle. It was bad enough to use a Krieghoff double, then a Blaser bolt action. Now a Sabatti. I may be forced to surrender my DRSS card.

I had not shot the rifle until today. Shot it at 25 yards off sticks with Hornady factory ammo. Target is the first six shots. Functioning is fine, triggers are heavy but not overly so. Accuracy seems to be fine. Next test is to determine dependability.

The nice pics are of my rifle from the Cabelas website. The last picture is the target I shot today. So far the only thing I would tell Sabatti to change is that they should replace the goofy dragon lever release with a real release.

Elephants beware!

quote:

My conclusion is that at the 9.5# it is too light for the cartridge

Ha! They're only getting down to their fighting weight.

Don't let Cabelas ruin them now.

Mike,

Do we need to bring you out back and beat you with a stick for that?

That's almost as bad as "Do these jeans make me look fat?"

Well, the best part is that you answered your own questions AND we got to see pictures of your extremely nice Sabatti Double Rifle.

BTW, I like that little critter on the release lever - looks like a wolverine or badger in the photos but I'll have a better feel in a few weeks.

Congratulations on a fine double!

So is this a 22 hornet or what?

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
So is this a 22 hornet or what?

See the first pic, I realize the print is small for aged and scotch-addled eyes but it says .450 NE.

Just because it's stamped 450 NE don't mean it ain't no hornet.

Mike that test target looks like the one from the Boise store, I called but the rifle was already sold (to you?). I found one at the Post Falls store, put it on hold, drove over, fell in love and brought her home. Fit and finish are great. Balance is just right, and it aligns with my eye everytime I raise the gun.
I am VERY happy with my purchase and the 450NE chambering should handle anything I point it at. Compared to other rifles I looked at prior to purchase, there seems to be a lot of value in these rifles. My buddy just bought one of their 45-70s and he loves it. If the smaller version had express sights instead of plastic hi-viz I might get one of them also.

quote:

Originally posted by JCS271:
Mike that test target looks like the one from the Boise store, I called but the rifle was already sold (to you?).

That is the very one. I was on the fence until I saw the regulation target. I had been looking for a .450 NE. To me, the rifle is too light for a .470 NE or certainly the .500 NE. The weight is perfect for a .450 NE.

quote:

So far the only thing I would tell Sabatti to change is that they should replace the goofy dragon lever release with a real release.

That is Gay looking,

Maybe you could take a file to it and turn it into a gecko.

Looks like a nice shooting rifle.

The "critter" on the top lever is actually a fox, "volpe" in Italian. I was told that by Gabriele Sabatti himself while I ate lunch with him at the EXA 2010 show here in Toronto about a month ago.

quote:

Originally posted by ron vella:
The "critter" on the top lever is actually a fox, "volpe" in Italian. I was told that by Gabriele Sabatti himself while I ate lunch with him at the EXA 2010 show here in Toronto about a month ago.

Cool!
As I said earlier, I like it!
Looking forward to getting mine and heading to Beaver Dam Road outside of Ellenville for some target practice.

quote:

Originally posted by ron vella:
The "critter" on the top lever is actually a fox, "volpe" in Italian. I was told that by Gabriele Sabatti himself while I ate lunch with him at the EXA 2010 show here in Toronto about a month ago.

Very interesting as I have that very same "critter" on one of my 16ga. field guns.


Here is the Volpe as on my Fabio Zanotti de Balogna. A 16 ga. double I absolutely love. Only a few photos













Frank

If you guys can get those 450 Nitro's to regulate with RL 15, your loads will have less recoil than IMR 4831.

I would start with @79gr of RL 15.
Personally I would use a filler, dacron or foam plugs cut out with a 50 BMG case.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
If you guys can get those 450 Nitro's to regulate with RL 15, your loads will have less recoil than IMR 4831.

I would start with @79gr of RL 15.
Personally I would use a filler, dacron or foam plugs cut out with a 50 BMG case.

I'll second that.

It is my understanding that you don't need filler in a straight walled case with RL-15. NO?

465H&H

I think case length dictates use of filler with RL-15. A 3" 500 case might not need one. 470s and 475s do. Wouldn't a 450 as well?

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
If you guys can get those 450 Nitro's to regulate with RL 15, your loads will have less recoil than IMR 4831.

How much less recoil?

I am relatively recoil insensitive I wouldn't do it for that reason alone and I would prefer not to add unnecessary variables when reloading.

On the other hand, if the reduction were significant, when I reload for my dad, my brother and certain others who, for a variety of reasons can't or shouldn't be subjected to a good beating I would do so.

Is the difference significant or all that noticeable in your experience?

Mike: I am still having trouble getting over your target. Please, God, let Cabelas still have one of these left when I finally come up with the $5k for it ...

Just went and looked at and bought the 45-70. Since Im out of state, they have to ship it to a VA FFL, so its going directly to a gunsmith to address the length of pull, trigger pull and sights, but man, for that price, you cant beat it for beating around the swamp and its a good looking piece. I got several Rugers and Savages and Marlins [and others, for that matter] that dont look any better out of the box. Can not wait to bust a cap out of this thing!

On the question of recoil, I ran the numbers through my reloading-balistic program and this is what I got between the 450-400 and the 450 Nitro. Useing a 9lb. rifle and Re 15 powder in both at 2150fps it looks like this. 450-400 400gr bullet and 70gr powder = 46flb @18.1fps The 450 Nitro 500gr bullet and 84gr powder= 70flbs @22.4 fps. Ps: with same rifle in 500 3" and a 570gr bullet W/90gr Vargent (2000fps)= 79.1flb and 23.8fps of recoil vol.

Hey hey hey, Fat_Albert,

Thanks for running those digits. I was wondering about my 9.5# Sabatti in 500 NE, since it kicks like a pissed mule.

A 9.5lb 500N would go down to 75.9flb and 22.6fps

I looked at one of these in 45/70 this weekend. Fit and finish was nice for the price.

I was hoping they did nto shhot worth a darn because now I want one since they seem to shoot.

I want one in 9.3x74R.

This is one of the more interesting threads I've seen online, so I can't help but jump in. My background in DB rifles goes back a long way, but suffice to say I've got a lot of experience with a particular English 470, in reloading and shooting it. My neighbor just acquired a Sabbati 450/400 (400 Jeffery) which I will test for a publication if we can get some ammo, currently out of stock everywhere. (Help!) The gun looks great, and though it's too tight as it is, it'll surely loosen up a bit with use. The engraving appears to be machine done, but is quite nice. I always wanted a 400 Jeff DB rifle but never owned one. The cost of these rifles is extremely low for what you get, I think. I've owned many English db rifles over the years and the Sabbati has all the really nice bells & whistles. The Sabbati even has the undercut muzzles, which my 470 had, which effectively cuts kick. I wonder how good these rifles look inside. Anyone open one up yet?

My 470 weighed 10.5 pounds and was just right. A 450 Nitro has about the same power and recoil (recoil energy is maybe 5 percent less for the 480-gr. bullet) but at 9.5 pounds they are a good pound too light. Thing is, you can't just add weight to a db rifle and expect it to still regulate. If LionHunter adds mercury, I'd be surprised if his rifle will put two anywhere near each other.

I can second N E 450 No 2's comment about using RL-15 over 4831. If you use 103 grains of 4831 (in a 470) the recoil goes up to 65.6 ft-lb from 59.7 ft-lb when using 86 grains of RL-15. Yes, I used Dacron filler over the powder to keep it against the primer (Fed 215 only) for consistent ignition. With my 360 No.2 db rifle, adding the Dacron made a significant improvement in accuracy. For the 470 I settled on Woodleigh bullets for all serious work, but also had good results on a caribou in Alaska with paper-patched lead out of the 470.

I can second Clayman 216's results with lighter bullets. By all means try these rifles with lighter bullets. My 470 would work with 400 and 350 grainers. On some calibers it might be hard to get lighter bullets, but there are other options like casting and/or paper patching.

I'm very eager to try my neighbor's 400 Jeff -- if we can get some AMMO!!

......Ray

Ray O

What do you mean by this ? Both the "undercut" comment and the "effectively cuts kick"

"even has the undercut muzzles, which my 470 had, which effectively cuts kick."


.

quote:

A 450 Nitro has about the same power and recoil (recoil energy is maybe 5 percent less for the 480-gr. bullet) but at 9.5 pounds they are a good pound too light.

Welcome to argument central!

At 9.5 lbs. it's a pound too heavy!

I have 19 loose .450/.400 Hornady factory rounds, 9 solids and 10 softs, or vice versa. $95 shipped if you're interested.

Hi, 500N. If you look at the ends of the muzzles from the side, they are cut so the bottom edges of the barrels are effectively a touch longer than the upper edges. If you put a square against the muzzles you'll see this. My 470 had it, but it took me a decade of ownership to notice it. Kinda like your lower jaw juts out in front of your upper one. Any gas you blow out your mouth is deflected upward. (I do that a lot.)

Will, I'm interested, but still waiting to hear from one source out there. I'd prefer all the same "flavor" if possible, preferrably softs. I'll let you know in a day or two. Thanks a bunch.

.......Ray

Will, you're a lot tougher than I am if you like the rifle that light. Of course, I have a 458 that is right at 8 pounds, so who am I to talk.

The worst kicker I've fired was Ross Seyfried's 577, at 13 pounds. This was quite a few years ago, but I still remember it painfully.

......R

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I have 19 loose .450/.400 Hornady factory rounds, 9 solids and 10 softs, or vice versa. $95 shipped if you're interested.

Hi, Will,

Yes, I'll take what you offered. Nine solids and ten softs will work just fine. Please let me know how to pay you.

........Ray

Send a check.