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Here is an interesting article in a recent issue of Sporting Classics newsletter...Jim Carmichael, Outdoor Life Gun Editor for years on Shooting the 700 NE- http://sportingclassicsdaily.c...ing-the-700-express/ Enjoy, Cheers, 470EDDY | ||
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I really don't know where this hairy-chested he-man stuff originated from as to recoil. Many factors come into play in transmitting felt recoil. Pressure, velocity, bullet weight, rifle weight, stock shape, the size and physique of the shooter, square inches of butt (on the rifle, not the shooter), and many more. When the .700 nitro express was introduced in the 1980's it was determined to have the felt recoil of the .600 the rifle had to weigh 19 pounds. This was done as it was believed the .600 was at the threshold of recoil tolerance. I will take this a step further. I would guess when the .600 was introduced in 1899 it was determined the rifle should weigh in the 15-16 pounds range to equal the felt recoil of a .577 at 13 pounds. Years ago I did a short article in the African Hunter magazine about felt recoil with all factors begin equal, rifles from 450-400, .470, .500, .577, .600, .700 would all have the same felt recoil if their weights were adjusted--i.e. if a .450-400 weighted say 7 pounds the recoil would be like a 12 pound .500 ne. Many are amazed I shoot the .600, 8 and 4-bores on a regular basis but it is nothing special. Anyone can teach themselves to accept recoil--just start light and slowly work up avoiding flinch. Twice in two years two different gents (one from New Zealand, and the other an Anchorage MD) had my .600 Wilkes double. That is 1800 grains of lead and 320 grains of IMR 4831. Yes, it rocked their world but they held on to the rifle and the muzzle rise was less than 18 inches. (Compare that to Boddington and Elmer shooting the big ones with the muzzle pointing to the sky--just BS hype for the camera). The big bores are great as they are a part of history that will never be relived as to their actual and needed use, but they are also greatly stretched as to the truth. Having shot them for 20 years and now being just shy of 61, I am leaning towards the smaller double rifles--.280 to .350 no2, and the black powder expresses. I guess that is why I will never be a well known and popular writer as I avoid the hype and stick to the facts. And, the facts to recoil and the big double rifle calibers, are not as astounding as they have been written about. Actually, it is rather mundane. Many at the Alaska double shoots handle the .577, .600, 8-, 4-bores for the first time and do it well. No, I have never shot a .700 and have not desire to do so. But I know at 19 pound it will feel about what my 16-pound .600 does. Excuse my rambling. Cheers, all. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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I think Buckstix write up--a couple threads down--on building the rifle, making brass, and shooting the 700 Nitro is an outstanding description. While Carmichael is an excellent writer, I think Buckstix gives us a much more in depth view of the 700. | |||
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I always think articles like this are hilariously arrogant. As if the 700 was never shot until (fill in the blank) shot it. | |||
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My dear friend Cal. As much as I respect you, your writings and admire your extensive collection, I must disagree. Becoming tolerant of that thing you call a "Rifle" is like telling someone, "Don't worry, we pull teeth without the use of Novocain all the time, you'll get accustomed to it" As you know, I love DR's as much as the next guy, I just don't desire to get hit in the side of the face with a 2 x 4 voluntarily. My beautiful Armeria de Madarid (LARM), 500NE is a scant 10 pounds. The recoil of it, is MY LIMIT. My rifle was built and stocked to me. Even so, I desire (and need) nothing more. However, I do admire the men who seek these things out. Your still teaching, so I must assume your brain is still somewhat intact? Respectfully, Steve  Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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I agree. Recoil tolerance is an acquired taste. Like almost anything, the more you are exposed to something the greater your tolerance. That is why I have never really understood practicing with reduced velocity loads. I also think you have to be prudent in your practice. Trying to shoot twenty full power loads in a .577 at a sitting is going to do more harm than good for most people in my view. Regular practice is the key. Just like exercise, start low and work your way up . . . recoil is something most folks can master with a little effort. Mike | |||
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I don't see any parallel between pulling teeth and practicing with rifles to tolerate recoil. Steve, your .500 may be your limit. My .600 at 16 pounds is approximately the same in felt recoil as your lighter .500. I remember a gent on the lever action forum saying a .44 magnum in a Marlin lever carbine kicked the hell out of him! I bet he had to sit down to pee. When shooting .22s at summer camp we kids watched the instructor shoot a .30-30 and how we marveled at the power and thought the recoil would flatten us. Recoil tolerance can be learned. Just ask any Marine from the 1940-50s who began shooting with a .30-06 M1. I bet, Steve, you shoot your .500 better now than when you first got it. Practice makes perfect. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Cut the poor guy a break Cal, he lives where it never gets below 50 degrees. Geez, what do you expect?  ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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perhaps Cal, but you have to be able to shoot them accurately for two quick (like Boom-Boom) shots or risk spending hours chasing a wounded animal like a Cape Buffalo that might just decide to kill you instead... | |||
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Good memory! Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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50? It was 104 here on Friday, a bit early. I was moving some stuff around in my garage yesterday, killed 2 bark scorpions. One had a load of little ones on her back. Still rather live around this stuff, than potentially stepping on a Grizzly bear. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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While it might be fun to shoot one, I have zero desire to lug one around hunting. | |||
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The thing that struck me about the link was that it was an excerpt from a new book. Their choice of passage to sell the book read like it was getting close to nap time. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Shooting the 700 NE Jim Carmichael-
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