I'm trying to do some early research into the feasibility of importing a line of new SXS double rifles. I would like to have input from the knowledgeable here. I need some answers to a few questions and any other input on what would sell here in the U.S. not in Europe.

Please keep in mind that I'm trying to keep overall costs down to the affordable range not the dream gun.


Two options below.


A.

1. What would you pay for a basic off the shelf boxlock double rifle with full length ribs and express sights?

2. I need a list of top three rimmed calibers wanted and expected weight for each one.

3. Barrel length?

4. What is the least amount of and what kind of engraving would you expect it to have standard?

5. What options interest you? i.e. scope mounts, ejectors, more engraving, auto safety, upgraded wood and so on.

6. If scope mount what kind?

7. Stock dimensions for off the shelf?

8. Style of butt pad?

9. Any other info that you want to add.



B.

Just describe your idea of an inexpensive off the shelf double rifle. What you would expect and what you would pay for.

1. What would you pay for a basic off the shelf boxlock double rifle with full length ribs and express sights? I'd love to see one for less than $6k

2. I need a list of top three rimmed calibers wanted and expected weight for each one. .450/400 (Jeffery) at 8.5lbs; .450 N.E at 9.5 lbs; .470 N.E. at 9.5 lbs (I'd carry a double much more than shoot it

3. Barrel length? 25" is a good compromise

4. What is the least amount of and what kind of engraving would you expect it to have standard?
no engraving necessary and for sure, no lazered crap

5. What options interest you? i.e. scope mounts, ejectors, more engraving, auto safety, upgraded wood and so on. ejectors

6. If scope mount what kind? claw is best, but a modified Talley like on the Searcy is slick and strong

7. Stock dimensions for off the shelf? I like the standard Merkel dimensions (whatever the hell they are?)if fit to order is not available (My 141(e) fits me like a glove) and 140's aren't too bad either

8. Style of butt pad? While Silvers is nicest looking, on a working gun a Pachmayr Decelerator is not bad and inexpensive (if that's your focus)

9. Any other info that you want to add.



B.

Just describe your idea of an inexpensive off the shelf double rifle. What you would expect and what you would pay for. This is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but I once had a Westley-Richards .450/400 3 1/4" that was plain as white bread. It weighted right at 10 lbs, but felt like 6.5. It had only one fixed rear sight, no fancy engraving (just a simple lion on one side and a buff on the other with minimum scroll and shot 400 grain .411 Woodleighs into 4" at 100 yards. I'd pay $6K for a reproduction of the stock shape and accuracy anyday and give up some of the frills and fit (but who wouldn't?)

what Ernest said, but no ejectors, and the stock should be 14" no pad, to all for a fully grown male to have it properly fitted

+1 on what Ernest said.

Plus I would like to see a left handed stock offered (even if you charged a premium simliar to a wood upgrade) even if the triggers were not reversed.

As far as scope mounts, I would like to see any mount that uses some off the shelf (rather than proprietary) rings.

Not to differ a bit here as I agree with almost everything said. I'd consider .375 flanged, .470 NE and .500 NE. Color case hardened receiver, no engraving. Agree on the buttstock -- I'm still shooting my Merkel with the plastic buttstock -- go long and let everyone fit length and pad. Would love to see a good quality "working gun" for $6k or so. (Wouldn't want "Made in China" stamped on it).

Make the stock 14.5" (of wood) and then it will fit even those of us who prefer longer than hell stocks witha 1" pad.

A red Pachmeyer would be fine, and if a fellow really preferred a Silvers, he could change it out.

To keep costs down, the Talley comatible milling in the base, but only on 400's or less.

Skip the full length rib and go with a proper quarter rib.

Good case colors, a light border engraving.

The rest as JudgeG states, except offer 375H&H and 500NE.

JPK

Color case or french grey the action, keep the lines english, barrels at 24 to 25 in like the good judges says, I like what JPK says and go with a quater-rib!

Calibers 450/400 3"/ 450 3 1/4 and 500. For 6K to 7K

9.3x74R for 4K

Ed

Casper,

I'm not an expert, and don't play one on TV, but it seems to me that what's currently missing from the market is a solid unadorned double that the owner can make suit them after buying it. Several companies make wonderful guns that are custom-made, but at $15k+. If you could offer just a basic, solid rifle at around a third of the price of a Heym or Searcy, that allowed the owner the option of upgrading/customizing a step at a time as desired, you'd have a winner. Ship it with the stock a little longer than most will want in the end, because that's an easy modification, limit calibers to something like 9.3X74/.375 Flanged-- .450/400-- .470 NE, and where possible make it easy (or at least practical) for the customer to do "set-up" to suit them, as they want to do it, and they'll move.

Something to think about when considering importing/pricing/demand:

As the dollar flucuates, one can buy a very serviceable Merkel 141 or Chapuis in 9.3x74 for +- $5K (or least I've been able to do so). Both are quality guns and are available with scope bases milled in. The Merkel even has adjustable regulation and ejectors. I think that market is not very assailable???

But, .375 H&H Flanged and up is an open market if you can sell them inexpensively.

Another consideration: Butch has his "plain Jane" double for sale $10,000.00. He has already sold out his production for this year. With his rifles you get U.S. based service, a lifetime warranty (Butch's life, perhaps?) and a resale value of 100% or close thereto. So, what service will you be able to offer? Sending rifles back to Europe is costly, time consuming and a pain in the butt. Don't Merkel and Chapuis have authorized repair here in the States?

As to the responses after mine, I agree with the 14.5" stock without pad. One can trim a little wood and add a Pachmayr if lesser is better or add one up to 1.5" if a gorilla, either at a minimal cost.

Ejectors are a wish, not a necessary. Case coloring should be inexpensive and a cheap eye candy.

As a favor to you, I will gladly accept a gratis sample and take it ( a .450 N.E. please)to Africa to try the "new" double out. Regulate it to Hornady ammo. I'll expect it by next week?

A good bit more informative set of replies than the other board.

Believe the Judge has got it right. Your market is .375 flanged and up into the big bores. Plenty of entry level (Chapuis, Merkel) in the 9.3x74R already. Service is a good point, too.

Might also need a sensible gimmick for sales. Maybe look at pricing a droplock boxlock action (similar to Westley Richards), and even include intercepting sears (which Butch Searcy adds to his high end boxlock).

Just a speculation, but .375 flanged or 470 NE guns at around $7.5K should readily sell. Again, not sure you can make a dangerous game double for that.

Regards