Cabelas in Hamburg Pa has a nice Searcy 470 NE DR in their gun library. Go to cabelas.com to get their phone # if interested. The price is $9200 which is not bad at all as it is in nice condition. It is a little heavier and beefier than a Kreighoff though. Just thought I would pass this along here.

twice the gun a Kreighoff is.

Crap!

I called, sounds like an ealry BSS action Searcy.

GG375

quote:

Originally posted by GG375:
Crap!

And your oh so intelligent response is based on....???

Please explain....Thank you.

GG375,
Please tell me you are not disagreeing with me that a Searcy, which is an Anson and Deeley action utilizing steel and no alloys is better than a Kreighoff which does use alloys and various other designs in an effort to cut manufacturing costs.
Please say that is not the case.

I have a friend that has a Browning actioned Searcy in 470.

This rifle is nicely engraved with some gold animals on it.

I have shot it. It handles and shoots just fine.

His new classic is the best of all of his doubles IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by fivebigbores:
GeoffM24 what about the early BBS action makes it crap ! tell us what you know on this thanks frank

I didn't say it was crap, just that it was an early BSS actioned gun.

Personally I don't like the looks as much and they are bigger and heavier guns. If it was a newer one, I'd have bought it. I have seen a value of roughly $4-5,000 quoted for these converted shotguns on this forum.

I don't think there is a better using rifle out there than the new Classic by Searcy..I have owned many doubles, both American and English guns, The Searcys I have owned are the most accurate and I believe them to be stronger than any other double. My latest one is a Classic 450-400-3", my last one was a .470 N.E. that shot one hole every time at 50 yards, and Butch won the Nationls with it.

Searcys are using rifles, English doubles are a great investment.

Second only to the "Deluxe" which has Double intercepting sears among other fine attributes...

...The "Classic" is the best looking one for sure!

JW

quote:

Searcys are using rifles, English doubles are a great investment.

I agree Ray, but from what I've seen lately, Searcys are a good investment as well...

IMHO,

Not to interupt the roast of GG375, But Searcy does not only build USING guns. True that this is what he is best known for. But the company does build higher end rifles, Sidelocks, Underlevers, Multiple barrel sets as well.

If someone claims that the Searcy is "twice the gun a Krieghoff is" I too might be tempted to say "Crap"! Now if your criteria is "good old American made steel stuff", then the debate ends!
Peter.

I looked at the rifle and it is not built on a BSS but is a Field Grade model. I compared the actions so I believe this to be correct. As I stated, its not a bad price and it may even be a little bit negotiable too. Damn, wish I had the greenbacks.

Factually speaking the Kreighoff, like other double rifles on the market today such as Blaser's, are made starting from a draftsman's board with the direction of cost to produce as the number one guideline. Man hours even in today's world of computer controlled machinery in expensive.

Too, these guns are utilizing cheaper alloys where applicable in an effort to cut costs, similar to pot metal floor plates on bolt actions.

If I for one was in the business of guns and wanted to make a double rifle I would probably start with a boxlock and the boxlock I would probably start with would be an Anson and Deeley design. It has worked great for over a century. It is a strong design that places the tumblers where they will not weaken the gun by removing too much metal. It uses the guns inertia to cock itself. It has a positive intercepting safety...That Kreighoff design is ridiculous.

Guns like the Kreighoff double rifle and the Blasers will run their course, and it will be a FAR shorter course than the A&D actions simply because they are in fact, inferior. If either of those manufacturers wanted to stamp their name on the legacy of double rifles they would start with a great design that is proven.


I can see, and even like to see manufacturers work on improvements on existing actions. The Greener Facile Princeps design is another fantastic boxlock design.
Further while I am speaking about action choices, perhaps the strongest action out there for big guns is the back action sidelock.

By the way, i apologize for the statement that started this...a Kreighoff is still a fun gun.

Fivebigbores.
I was simply commenting on the fact that most people associate Searcy with the lower grade rifles, the Field grade or the newer PH model. As you well know the company does produce high grade rifles as well, but you never hear much about them. In my opinion a Searcy is as good of an investment as any rifle can be. What other can be purchased, used for several years and then be sold for more than the original price? I have owned several higher grade Searcys, they are in my opinion the only rifle to own.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
I looked at the rifle and it is not built on a BSS but is a Field Grade model. I compared the actions so I believe this to be correct. As I stated, its not a bad price and it may even be a little bit negotiable too. Damn, wish I had the greenbacks.

Woodrow,
Did it look like this

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun...700751_searcy470.jsp

or this

http://www.searcyent.com/new_dr.htm

Jeez guys, if you are going to rip my double to pieces, at least spell Krieghoff right

No one was trying to rip...LOL
seriously, they are still a fun gun no matter how we spell it! haha no pun intended.

As for the Searcy's being an investment I will second that. It is a risky maneuver to buy a gun for an investment but I see those Searcy's doing well in the future. I think they are a LOT of gun for the money and the not-to-distant future will see a rise in the second-hand prices.
I for one feel that the idea of them being a cheaper gun was founded on a cheap price. Cheaper than it should have been perhaps.

I do not own a Searcy but that is only because I am an anglophile, or so I am told, but I have had the opportunity to shoot and inspect them. In doing so I have compared them to some of my English guns. For what the Searcy's cost they are a LOT of gun.

Oh well! All's well with the world! No one is knocking the Searcy. It is wonderful to have a modern double rifle, and the wood on some of these is just beautiful. Having said that, I am happy with my Kreighoff in 500/416!
Peter.

fivebigbores, I have not killed anything with the 500/416 (yet). It is awaiting my next Africa trip which is awaiting my wife's approval! Sorry I know nothing about the Florida Ranch buff hunt. In the mean time, I practice. I enjoy shooting just as much as I do hunting.
Peter.

I have never shot a 470, but do also own a 450 x 3 1/4 which is also awaiting Africa. The 450 is a heavier gun, so perceived recoil is about the same to me.
Peter.

Geoff,
It is a Field Grade model. The one I am referring to is in Hamburg, Pa. which is 15 miles from my house. The action was a good 1/3" wider than the Kreighoff so I doubt it was based on a BSS. I will look at it again if someone is interested in it just to make sure. BTW, the Searcy in Rogers, Mn is built on a BSS.

quote:

Originally posted by Gun toter:


If I for one was in the business of guns and wanted to make a double rifle I would probably start with a boxlock and the boxlock I would probably start with would be an Anson and Deeley design. It has worked great for over a century. It is a strong design that places the tumblers where they will not weaken the gun by removing too much metal. It uses the guns inertia to cock itself. It has a positive intercepting safety...That Kreighoff design is ridiculous.
.

Sorry Gun Toter, but you are incorrect! The Anson & Deeley actions, for rifles, do not use the rifle's enertia to cock the rifle. It uses cocking levers that are operated by the barrels being levered down for loading. A double rifle that depends on Inertia to cock the second barrel is dangerous to anyone useing it to hunt anyt6hing that bites back. If you have misfire on the first barrel then it must be removed from the shoulder and rapped smartly on the heel of the hand to cock the other barrel, not an activity I'd be interested in whith a cape Buffalo bearing down on my butt! Evey S/S double I know of either barrel can be fired by simply useing the correct trigger.

You are correct, however, in you opinion that an A&D action has worked flawlessly for well over a century. The only place you find inertia cocked second barrels is in most single trigger O/U double shotguns, and double rifles, and is not well suited to defending yourself!

quote:

Originally posted by GeoffM24:

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
I looked at the rifle and it is not built on a BSS but is a Field Grade model. I compared the actions so I believe this to be correct. As I stated, its not a bad price and it may even be a little bit negotiable too. Damn, wish I had the greenbacks.

Woodrow,
Did it look like this

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun...700751_searcy470.jsp

The rifle in this case is a BSS actioned rifle made many years ago. It even has the orgenal Browning engraveing on the action, and barrel butts, and cost $3000 new. They were strong guns, and were very reliable, but didn't handle well. The actions were re-heat treated, and had a third fastener installed in th upper rib. There is no way this rifle is unfired, and I can tell you it has been reblued. The stock also looks like a fair re-stock, with fairly decent wood, but that rifle is in no way worth $15K. Some one may pay that for it, however, but for 15K you can touch a fair British double, or come close to afording a "NEW" Clasic Searcy, which is head & shoulders above the old BSS models in quality, ballance, and value! That rifle would be serviceable in the $8K range, if it checks out to be a shooter that someone hasn't screwed up!

quote:

Originally posted by fivebigbores:
wifes approval this I understand however unlike every other subject on earth of which I know almost every thing wife approval I know nothing of --that is predictable or repeatable-- hidin and lien won't even work for me -- how do you like the 500-416 compared to say a .470 ? there is a ranch run cape buff hunt $4,ooo down your way thought I might check it out will look for it and send you the link

The ranch you are speaking of is owned by Joe & Liz O'banion, and there are no "CAPE" buffalo there! The buffalo he has are the Phillapino "WATER" buffalo, and the cost is $4K+ lodging, and processing, and a $100 per day guide fee!

quote:

Originally posted by fivebigbores:
thought I saw in the SCI rag [i'll cach hell for that] an add for a J.D. somthin Ranch indian town FL that had a cape buff herd gess not

Unless he got them in the last couple of months, which I doubt, they are "WATER" buffalo, but I'll go read that article, maybe he did some how get some through customs embargo. Just read the article, and the third paragraph plainly states, "These were Aisian water buffalo, not cape Buffalo, and are no longer hunted in their home range!"

Joe O'Banion is a licensed PH in Tanzania,Botswana, and Zambia, and he and his wife Liz own the the ranch near Indian Town, FL

Wish he did have cape buffalo,especially at that price, I'd be there in a flash.

All
My comment of "Crap" was in answer to Gun toters equally rash implication that the Searcy is "twice the gun a Krieghoff is." I own a Deluxe Searcy .470 and a Krieghoff Classic in 9.3 x 74R. While I love my Searcy, my Krieghoff is a better finished rifle. It is also just as accurate as the Searcy. So........if I have misunderstood your comment Gun toter I apologise for my ststement. But if that is what you meant, then I still say "Crap".

Cheers.

GG

h20boy

you ask what other rifle can you buy, use and have it increase in value besides your searcy ?

have you ever heard of the real double rifles, as made in england ??

check them out. you might be quite amazed at what you learn. many have been built for 100+ years. their appreciation in value has been nothing short of spectacular...... far outstripping anything else.

and when butch goes on his last safari, who is going to repair your rifle.... or continue making them ???

he is the only one who regulates them as far as i am aware.

we hate to talk about it, but some things are inevitable.

krieghoff, merkel and blaser will be around

they may not make "an american style double rifle " but they will be making double rifles as long as they are in business. and supplying repair parts and service too.

just a few things to think about

hey macd37

have you ever hunted water buffalo ?

i don't know anything about hunting them but at the price someone from A R might check it out.

do they charge if wounded.... or run off like the cape buff does ??

one can probably get a $500 or less flight to florida vs a $1,700 flight to south africa then onward to the buff in whatever country.

at $4k you can take two for what one costs in africa. and it will probably have bigger horns too.

maybe one of you golden tongued buff shooters can talk the ranch into a discount water buff hunt for a comprehensive write up and promotion on the A R forum..... worth a try.

ps mac - it was good to meet you at drss, tomo

this thread originally started out about the value or cost of searcy rifles

consider this : in 1999 you could buy a searcy 470 made on his own action for $7,500. i did

a year or 2 later the price moved to $8,500 - still a good value for the money.

now what has his basic rifle price moved up to ???? hold your breath.

and how is that increase justified ?

what more do you get for the extra money please ??

any answers ???

tomo577.
Your post is interesting to me. You have a point about longevity and large companies. I have something for you to think about. B Searcy and Co has been in business since 1971. The company has grown steadily ever since. They have a shop in Boron Ca, and they have expanded to Sturgis SD as well. There are some very skilled craftsman working for the company. There are also some very skilled gunsmiths in this country who repair and maintain doubles. The price of Butch's rifles has steadily increased over the years this is true. My point exactly!!! They will continue to increase. As far as what you get for the money. Lets see, there are now three new models and the PH model has been dropped. Notice anything here? Only 64 years to go. Even Holland & Holland, Purdey and Westley Richards started small. As far as my experience with "Real Double Rifles", as made in England, Germany, ect. I have 21 years of experience in the "trade". I am an actioner, If you are not familiar with the term I can explain it. These are my own personal observations. There are a lot of fine rifle's out there, keep on shooting them!!

OK, to clarify what the action is on the Searcy 470 Nitro that started this post...it is in fact a FieldGrade Model. I looked again and compared it to the one on Butch's website, which by the way sold very quickly for $9500 + shipping. This one is priced at $9200 and is very nice too. Perhaps the price may be somewhat negotiable as I have gotten them to reduce the price several times on other guns. The wood is pretty nice for a field grade anything. It does not take a genius to figure out the better deal with this one sitting next to a Kreighoff Big Five ...for $12,900. Remember, this one is at Cabelas in Hamburg, Pennsylvania. I don't believe it is on their web yet but when it does it will probably go pretty quick, since the one that is on the main web page is built on a BSS and priced HIGHER. I thought of every combination in the book to put that 470 in my gun safe but it is just not worth the trip to the dogbox...for good.

H20BOY

yes, i know what an actioner is - where did you learn your trade ?

when i visited butch some years ago he had one worker. how many does he have now ?

do you know ?

i have had good luck with his rifles except for the one that doubled in africa and he told me where to take it to get it fixed - no problem and it worked fine after correction.

I don't think H2oBoy knows shit from shinola about double rifles and especially not them Searcy rifles.

I heard that he does most of his gun smithing with a crayon, a string and a 4lb hammer.

Goll durn moron from what I hear..

He definitely ain't nearly as double rifle educated as the group experts he's mixing wits with in on this thread. THAT'S for sure!

surestrike.
How do you know about the hammer and string You will be happy to learn that I am no longer allowed to use crayons(something about scribbling on the walls)

The hidden camera at the institution tells all.

OK, I was not going to go any further with my comments on this, least i incite someone to arguing. Somehow i cannot stay away. H2Oboy, you are partly to blame.

My original post stating that the Searcy gun was twice the gun the K gun is in fact, well factual. Kreighoff like some other gun manufacturers have tried to cut manufacturing costs. Searcy started with a great design. Do not be blinded by all the bling and shine from other makers. I am not trying to denigrate other makers such as Kreighoff, they are still a fine gun. BUT THEY COST LESS TO PRODUCE AND THE ACTION IS NOT PROOVEN!! I can care less about how long the company has been here compared to Searcy….the action has proven itself for over 100 years! Searcy or his company do NOT have to be here 10, 30 or 100 years from now to get work done on the actions/guns he is building. Any trained gunsmith that can work on a gun with out screwing it up will be able to work on Searcy’s.

H2Oboy, you are simply mistaken if you do not think the Searcy will be regarded highly down the road. For Goodness sake it is an ANSON AND DEELEY action...just like MOST English gunmakers STILL USE TODAY!!!

Woodrow
As for the rise in cost of the Searcy's and how that is justified....REAL SIMPLE. SUPPLY AND DEMAND. Butch in all likelihood probably wants to make X number of guns per year and currently he is getting more orders than he wants.....so what do you do? You do not have to be a genius to figure that out. RAISE your prices! duh.
Further, though I doubt this plays into his thinking, Searcy’s guns are getting nicer. The fit, finish and wood continue to increase in skill and quality.

Gun toter
I think that you have misunderstood my postings. I was saying that I felt Searcy will be highly respected in the future! Personally I have a high regard for them now, as do a lot of folks!! I think the company will grow, and continue to introduce superior models to their credit.
By the way, they had some really beautiful single shot rifles at Reno this year. Looks like they are involved in the single shot market as well.

guntoter,

Where in any of my posts did I question anything about the quality or costs of Butch's doubles? Please read my posts a little slower, then think...then hit the keyboard. I know who "is not" the genius here. duh!