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Gotta 9,3x74r O/U - Updated Info
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted
The ammo it was regulated for is non existent.

Top and bottom bbls shoot consistently but about 7 1/2 inches of vertical separation at 100 yards.

Can I expect to close that but using two different powder charges?

If so hotter charge in lower bll lighter charge in upper bbl?


Mike

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10138 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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try 65 gr h4831 w/286 or 300 gr bullet - that load has worked well for me several times
 
Posts: 13462 | Location: faribault mn | Registered: 16 November 2004Reply With Quote
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Mike, are you reloading for it now? Sounds like a bit more velocity is needed to close that gap. This is provided that you're still within safe levels when you up the powder charge. Make sure first that the top barrel is the one shooting high, and vise versa.....that they're not crossing.
 
Posts: 20165 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
Not reloading now...this was factory ammo


Mike

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10138 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Andre Mertens
posted Hide Post
Agreed, between H 4831 /65.0-68.0 (= primer sensitive) behind a 286 bullet.


Norma Plastic Point / H 4831 / 68.0 (Norma primer)




Norma Oryx / H 4831 / 65.0 (WLR primer)


Norma Plastic Point / H 4831 / WLR primer)


André
DRSS
---------

3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group.
 
Posts: 2420 | Location: Belgium | Registered: 25 August 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of MacD37
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
The ammo it was regulated for is non existent.

Top and bottom bbls shoot consistently but about 7 1/2 inches of vertical separation at 100 yards.

Can I expect to close that but using two different powder charges?

If so hotter charge in lower bll lighter charge in upper bbl?



quote:
Originally posted by Biebs:
Mike, are you reloading for it now? Sounds like a bit more velocity is needed to close that gap. This is provided that you're still within safe levels when you up the powder charge. Make sure first that the top barrel is the one shooting high, and vise versa.....that they're not crossing.


The quote above in BOLD print is the first thing needed! If Biebs’ guess is correct and they are crossing, more speed is needed!
........................................................................ coffee


....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

 
Posts: 14634 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: 08 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Mac, I checked the Verney Caron website...that model has adjustable muzzles. Mike should be able to bring the points of impact together with the adjustment. That way he can shoot whatever factory ammunition he has.
 
Posts: 20165 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of MacD37
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In that case his problem is solved!

I have one of the Winchester Grand European O/U 9.3X74R doubles that I'm taking to Aaron Little this week for a much needed regulation. Winchester had these things made by the same Japenese company that made the win 101 shotgun which are all reight but the rifle regulated the same way the shotgun was regulated was a disaster! Nice little rifle but it shoots like a Win 101 shotgun, it shoots patterns not groups!

................................................................... jumping


....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

 
Posts: 14634 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: 08 June 2000Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
Mac, I had 2 of them and neither one was regulated well.
 
Posts: 20165 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post
Mike
Congrats! - and you have some great advice presented here ..


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 39719 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of dpcd
posted Hide Post
I submit that it will never regulate by changing loads; O/Us do not respond to that like S/Ss do. The recoil/muzzle flip and jump results in a completely different shot placement geometry.
 
Posts: 17291 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of Andre Mertens
posted Hide Post
I beg to disagree. The targets I posted above were shot with an O/U (FN-Browning CCS25, anno 1982)...


André
DRSS
---------

3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group.
 
Posts: 2420 | Location: Belgium | Registered: 25 August 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of Todd Williams
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
I submit that it will never regulate by changing loads; O/Us do not respond to that like S/Ss do. The recoil/muzzle flip and jump results in a completely different shot placement geometry.



I suspected as much but refrained from comment on this thread as O/U double rifles are a subject I know NOTHING about ... a condition I intend to preserve BTW!!

barf
 
Posts: 8523 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
Has anyone had experience with "floating" or "bedding" an o/u?
This thread is of particular interest, as I recently purchased a 9.3x74 Fabarm o/u. My bottom barrell was actually shooting 2" high at 50 yds! After trying multiple loads, similar to what I have done with my sxs doubles, I noticed the fit of the forearm to the bottom barrel was extremely tight, and actually had created a bit of a shine to the wood. Floating the barrel with a bit of sandpaper did improve the elevation difference some, but now I find the bottom barrel shooting a bit erratic.
I too have now come to the point of where I am not sure if I am grouping or patterning!
 
Posts: 177 | Location: Brooks, Alberta, Canada | Registered: 17 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
OK...Upper bbl is shooting 1 1/4 low at 50 yards and Lower barrel is shooting 2" high at 50 yards

Bullets are crossing.


Mike

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10138 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Andre Mertens
posted Hide Post
Provided you're still within pressure limits, crossing barrels mean you need to slow down barrel time, by:

- going to a heavier/slower bullet ;
- lower your present powder charge to lessen velocity.

If none of these works, then it means that present regulation is worthless and that you must contemplate having the regulation process done all over.

BTW, with a +/- 3 " crossing at 50 yds., I'd bet that it could be solved by judicious load adjustment.


André
DRSS
---------

3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group.
 
Posts: 2420 | Location: Belgium | Registered: 25 August 2001Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
Mike, what make O/U are you shooting? My Tikka 512SD has an adjustment that can be made to the lower barrel to help "regulation". If yours is adjustable then that is the FIRST place I would make adjustments.
Just my 2 cents.
Peter.


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10515 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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