Finally got to the range today. Shot 20 rounds of Hornady DGS to determine where it was shooting and mount the EOTech holographic sight and then zero same. Separation is 3.5" at 25 yards. Vertical separation is minimal. I wore a medium PAST pad and shot off sticks. The mercury recoil reducers and Pachmayer pad have really done their job well. What was a brute at 9.5# is now pleasant to shoot. I hope to get out again tomorrow and make some minor adjustments and put some more rounds downrange to ensure it doesn't shift POI.

What do you all think about the 3.5" barrel separation? It is more than I'd like but certainly good enough for Ele, IMO, however, I like accurate firearms.

I have an agreement with Cabela's to exchange or refund because of the manner of regulation. Both barrels have the muzzles cut where they are joined, like this ")-(". Since I have a .416Rem and a .458Lott that both shoot very well and have taken DG with both, I am inclined to seek a refund if it comes to that.

I will not spend more for another brand of DR, although I could but I simply won't do it. So please, no repeat of the posts to purchase a Merkel, VC, Chapuis, et. al., because that's not going to happen. I'll have to eat the $600+ I had JJ put into it if I go for the refund.

3.5 inches. IMHO, just on the border of maximum acceptability.

However, you said no vertical sep so it could just be velocity.

Did you chrony the load ?

If you do, try some reloads that are a bit faster and
see if that closes up the group a bit.

3.5 at 25 is 7 inches at 50, add a bit of wobble, I'd like a tighter group.

Well done anyway.

Could have been the hold/sticks too.


Have fun with your new rifle!



Cheers
Tinker

quote:

Originally posted by a.tinkerer:
Could have been the hold/sticks too.

Cheers
Tinker

Agreed.

I'd use a standing rest to make sure.


Also, Where are you aiming on the Target ?

Centre of the circle or 6 or 12 o clock ?
It can make a difference to consistent sight picture.


.

Sticks weren't 100% stabile as I had to put them on a bench. I don't reload, so cannot play with the speed - no chrony either. If it continues to shoot well I'll move to 50 yards and see what it does there. I am aiming center of bull with a 1 moa dot - very accurate. Thanks for the input.

What's the MOA size of your dot? Is it covering up the bull area? A 4 MOA is pretty big at that range.

Try holding the holo dot under your target but centered.

I can't wait to see what your results are at 50m because for me,3.5inches at 25m is really bad!I can only hope that it is less because if its more and you are not going to reload then get ride of it.

Lionhunter.

I hate to say this, but your gun is NOT "shooting well" as you say.

Sorry, but I don't know many DR users who would find that acceptable.

.

lion hunter

how big were the individual groups ?

3,5" spread at 25 yards is not as it should be, if the individual groups are good then it can be an easy fix, by getting costum ammo for your gun, but they need to be a bit faster to regulate as it should.

best

peter

At 25 yards you should have a ragged hole. Like Peter said up the speed.

Did it come with a regulation target? What was that like? Come to Florida and I will reload for you!
Peter.

Is the rifle crossing its bullets? Or is the right barrel going right and the left bullet also on the left on the target? I certainly wouldn't find 3.5" groups at 25 yards acceptable.

465H&H

I really hate that your Sabatti doesn't shoot as close as it should.


I remember reading somewhere that a custom ammo firm (superior I think) would work-up a load for one's DR, and after that one would be able to get ammo for YOUR specific rifle.


I know it's spendy, but have you tried Federal's .500NE ammo? Or maybe even Kynoch?

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. After thinking about the 3.5" spread overnight, I realized that is not acceptable. And for the record, I never meant it was shooting well, only that the MRC and Pachmayer were doing their job well, as recoil is totally manageable, and that it was behaving as it should mechanically. Each barrel is grouping very well on its' own - holes are touching. I will have Larry at Superior load some at a faster speed and give them a try.

Any other suggestions? Sounds like this would be an excellent 500NE for someone who reloads. Horizontal POI is same for both barrels.

mike

get larry to cook you up some loads with ½ to 1 grains increments and please see if you have the possibillity to borrow a crono, as it is very importent to know the velocity while you tinker with the gun.

glad to hear you are still considering the gun

best

peter

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:
mike, please see if you have the possibillity to borrow a crono, as it is very importent to know the velocity while you tinker with the gun.

+1, must have a chony, the lot of ammo you have might be a little slow which if you can bump it up they would come together. Change your POA to 12 or 6 o'clock you will get a finer hold on target.

I agree with the rest of the guys here, 3.5 is unacceptable and marginal (at least to me at 50 yards). You need to try a steady rest and shoot of a bench in order to see if it's you or the rifle. It has been my experience that Hornady ammo, at least in the 450NE is loaded slower than published specs. +1 on the 6'Oclock hold. jorge

Lionhunter


The good thing is - and subject to the fact the DR's can have a mind of their own !!! LOL

Your gun is really only a whisker away from being a ripper shooter - AND, subject to confirmation of velocities of the ammo,
it could be one of the easiest to fix.

To find a gun that really does shoot SxS
is great, even if slightly apart.

.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
To find a gun that really does shoot SxS
is great, even if slightly apart.

Amen, parallel shots are the holy grail of DR's the rest is usually an easy fix.

Lion hunter:
I have been waiting for a while to read something about your rifle and the outcome of the work that you had JJ do to it. Glad to hear that his work brought about good results as usual. According to some reports on other posts about the subject of adding recoil reducers to doubles, that it will change the POI of the rifle and that it will affect some rifles more than others. I am glad to read that it did not affect yours that much, if any at all.
You stated that the shooting sticks that you used at the time were not stable. Right there part of the problem might lie; on the other hand it might not, since your individual barrels are shooting tight groups "touching". But it shoots parallel and horizontal spread that is good. Although 3.5 groups at 25 yards are not acceptable, but it could be fixed easily by playing with the loads a bit. I think the general consensus around here lean toward that.
INHO I think that you have a rifle with great potentials, you have invested a good amount in it already, it is pleasant to shoot. I would say shoot it few more times with different loads and see what the outcome is. I would like to see some pictures of targets and rifle and hopefully read some very good positive repots.

Good luck and God’s best.

Malek

Sounds like a bit of load tuning is needed. All else working OK with the rifle?

More trouble. The left ejector has failed, around 25 rounds. I have 10 rounds coming from Superior with increased velocity - should be here next week. I will be calling Cabela's tomorrow. Damn, I wanted this one to work!

Which Cabelas did you get it from? I assume all these dogs are not coming from the same one. I got mine from Dundee and it is perfect. (Not ejector, though).

Makes no difference which store the rifle comes from. They all go to the Nebraska store and are sent out to local stores from there. Some are exceptional, some not so.

LionHunter, I feel your pain my friend.

Good thing you played it safe by getting an agreement with Cabelas.


Best wishes,
Nemo.

Can we agree on this Lionhunter that me and 500 had not been trying to be snobs just sending a friendly warning??

Its a shame to hear of more problems showing up with these guns. I had high hopes for them after seeing a couple at the SCI show. Sure you can get a lemon but only time will tell. I wonder if many more will start having problems. It surely doesn't look good at this point.

Mike, don't give up. Perhaps they can fix or replace it? Schedule a weekend trip to Florida and we can work up some loads!
Peter.

We've had reports here recently of other makes having ejectors fail, poor groups, bad triggers, out of round chambers, etc.

I can't recall the time when a single manufacturer has been subjected to the level of scrutiny Sabbatis have, even though the likes of JJ at Champlin, Peterdk and others have said good things about them.

That said, had I seen or known about the crown issues I would not have purchased the rifle. jorge

Jorge,
The scrutiny is not about being a snob or trying to trash a specific gun….its more about informing folks that these guns are not without problems. While it is true that they cost less than half the price of a Merkel, they are only 10% of the gun IMO. Half Ass regulation is the tip of the iceberg. If they are willing to cut corners in that area I can only imagine what else is faulty. An unregulated, unreliable double rifle is worthless IMO. You should not have to handload to make it shoot….especially if you have to reduce velocity.

I think many of us with the more expensive double guns were hopeful that the Sabatti would be the “Double Rifle Bargin” that they were made out to be. Yet again, this dream appears to be out of reach. If enough folks take return their guns to Cabelas and request a refund…maybe they will fix the problems and offer a product that works.

Roscoe: Please don't misunderstand, nowhere on my post did I refer to this as trashing or snob appeal if it came across that way it was not my intention. That said, I've been around this forum for close to ten years now and my comment on the level of scrutiny Sabbati has received is not without merit. my rifle does work-so far, anyway. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
We've had reports here recently of other makes having ejectors fail, poor groups, bad triggers, out of round chambers, etc.

I can't recall the time when a single manufacturer has been subjected to the level of scrutiny Sabbatis have, even though the likes of JJ at Champlin, Peterdk and others have said good things about them.

That said, had I seen or known about the crown issues I would not have purchased the rifle. jorge

Jorge

I would say Merkel was subjected to a fair firestorm at some point over the last few years.

As to the level of scrutiny, well, that's the marketplace, every manufacturer is aware of what it is like
and if ANY other gun had the same issues, it would have copped the same.

I really do hope they listen and improve 10 - 20% so we have a better entry level gun.


LionHunter
I hope, I really do that they can fix the Ejector quickly and get you out shooting again.

Roscoe
Well said.

.

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:
Jorge,
The scrutiny is not about being a snob or trying to trash a specific gun….its more about informing folks that these guns are not without problems. While it is true that they cost less than half the price of a Merkel, they are only 10% of the gun IMO. Half Ass regulation is the tip of the iceberg. If they are willing to cut corners in that area I can only imagine what else is faulty. An unregulated, unreliable double rifle is worthless IMO. You should not have to handload to make it shoot….especially if you have to reduce velocity.

I think many of us with the more expensive double guns were hopeful that the Sabatti would be the “Double Rifle Bargin” that they were made out to be. Yet again, this dream appears to be out of reach. If enough folks take return their guns to Cabelas and request a refund…maybe they will fix the problems and offer a product that works.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the 10% issue. While the Merkel is a better gun and while I am no expert, I've handled and shot both and that 10% isn't even close. That implies the Merkel is 90% better, no way. My rifle shoots to regulated Hornady ammo and does it very well:

Factory:


Factory and factory duplicate w handloads:


Somehow I don't think it matters anyway. You apparently did not read some of the posts here about others that actually took these rifles apart and posted good reports based on facts. You lost me with that 10% issue. cheers, jorge

500N its a waste of time to try to explain things to some especially who put out the money to buy one of these not matter what facts you lay infront all the bad they will dispute til blue in the face..If they like it I love it and ill leave it at that wouldnt buy one personally but what works for them doesnt for the next man..Just leave it like that and be done with it.,.

The reverse is also true. I've been very up front with Sabbati and their issues and stated-more than once- had I known about the crown/regulation issues before purchasing, I would have passed on it even though my rifle shoots as depicted and (insert dead horse here) some pretty credible and knoledgeable DR experts have expressed they are good values. Reminds me of the "Thousand Bridge Rule" analogy; "you can build a thousand bridges but suck on little dick and will they call you a bridgebuilder?"

Very true.Ill agree on that and leave it at that.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
The reverse is also true.

Yes, but the difference is, in SOME cases the Sabatti was not what it reported to be and in relation to how they regulate, ALL cases.

Hell, I wish more than anyone that it was the DR bargain it was said to be (as so well put above by another poster) but i didn't believe it was which is why I (and a few others) put up red flag warnings.

The problem with the gun market is people do buy on price and are not good at evaluating subtle differences in Quality, functionality et al.

Over here, on the Bolt action market, we have a Stevens 200 - cheap stock, no magazine floorplate (ie blind). For only a little bit more, you can buy the same gun with a Magazine floorplate, far better stock. yet you get people buying the Stevens, then upgrading it with a new stock and the bits and pieces !!!

.

Can't disagree with anything you said there 500 and I'll even substitute your "SOME cases" with a LOT more that I am comnfortable with! It is clear Sabbatis have had some issues. BTW, I edited my post above.

Im glad all partys can agree and disagree frankly im sure we are all tired of the pissing matches whats important is not what we shoot or how we live that connects us its the shared intrest in hunting and thats what matter..

500N wrote

quote:

I really do hope they listen and improve 10 - 20% so we have a better entry level gun.


LionHunter
I hope, I really do that they can fix the Ejector quickly and get you out shooting again.

500n:
Thank you for the positive good wishes for Sabatti, Hopefully they will listen and get their act together. For Sabatti 0wners, Cabela's and Sabatti's sake.

Peter wrote


Mike, don't give up. Perhaps they can fix or replace it? Schedule a weekend trip to Florida and we can work up some loads!
Peter.





Lionhunter:
I do agree with peter and I do really feel for you. I myself have two rifles on layaway awaiting me when I go back to the States, a 470 and 450/400. I have spent a lot of time on the net picking them out and talking to different stores and looking over a lot of pictures of rifles, before I picked them out. I hate to have to cancel my purchases at this point. For I do really like the rifle a lot I like the ways it looks and the way it felt when I handled it. IMO it is a very beautiful rifle.
I have a verbal commitment at this point; I guess I should ask for a written one. One thing I am glad this point, that the 450/400 is fitted with an extractor rather than an ejector at.

Good hunting/shooting and God's best.

Malek